Sanford Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 The Z5 seem like a much better package for around the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I do not understand why the negativity. If such a camera is not for you, fine! Do not get one. No need to moan and complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 The Z5 seem like a much better package for around the same price. You can say the D850 seems like a much better package for around the same price (sometimes even less) compared to the Df. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Disappointment... Did someone promise you something you now did not get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I do not understand why the negativity. Disappointment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Did someone promise you something you now did not get? I've been with Nikon since the Nikkormat. You develop expectations from the company over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I've been with Nikon since the Nikkormat. You develop expectations from the company over time. I like most here have been using Nikon for a long time and the Zfc is exactly what I expected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotolopithecus Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I'm fully invested in Sony at this point, but I love retro controls, and still have a place in my heart for Nikon, so I may get it if mostly for sentimental reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lahuasteca Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) The Z5 seem like a much better package for around the same price. Well, exactly the conundrum I'm in - the Z fc or Z5 for backpack/overland/street. The new Z fc probably has better autofocus and a newer sensor; the Z5, an older sensor, and the internet chat says sometimes slow AF. But two UHS II card slots, full frame, detailed viewfinder - maybe the Z5 and the two pancake primes for the street. My budget is $2,000 for everything - camera, lenses, cards, etc. FWIW my travel gear currently (although not all together at once - D700, D60, and FE2) - a little 'long in the tooth and heavy. One thing in favor of the Z5 - I have some nice chipped MF lenses including Voigtlander 58 that would work seamlessly. I'm interested in what others say about IQ/AF of Z fc and Z5. Thanks. Edited June 30, 2021 by lahuasteca 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Peri Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Did someone promise you something you now did not get? Disappointment can also be caused by hope. For example, I hoped for a sunny day, but it rained. I'm disappointed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raczoliver Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 At least it's not priced $1000 higher than what it is worth, like the Df was at its introduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick D. Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Still no joystick for focusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaymondC Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) After a day thinking about this here. I think it can get a lot of flak on photography websites. However it is fun camera for certain audience. New users might just want a nice fun retro camera. While Nikon in history has not provided a lot of DX lenses in their F mount system, maybe there is a group out there who don't intend to get many lenses. One can use standard Z FX lenses on it many users might not do that anyway. Speaking about what many people do, many people do just like to chill and have some fun many might not take photography too seriously and shoot mainly in daylight where the consumer lenses are OK, plus their end output might just be shared online and perhaps the odd print. Likewise a Nikon geek with a truckload of stuff might wanna chill on travel and on their relaxing weekends and go and have some fun with it without getting too stressed with it. From my camera club, you get a few people who are more seriously with their photography but many more of them seeing as a fun activity to meet and greet people and have conversations and have a meal together afterwards. Many of them have crop sensor cameras and they don't have the 3 trio of 2.8 lenses or 1.4 lenses. I myself gotten a used Fuji XT1 a year ago more it is much lighter and smaller esp with the F2.0 primes or the kit lens. I would still agree with Shun to go with Fuji or even a M43 camera like some of my camera club members esp if they want longer reach and without breaking their backs and their wallets. Those brands have a lot more camera models and lenses to choose from. Maybe this is one way Nikon gets to tap into this customer type esp for those who don't intend to get all these lenses. Admittedly while some dSLRs at my club have moved from APS-C or FF dSLRs to Fuji or M43 the majority I think are still using a Canon / Nikon crop sensor dSLR that is 5 or more years old. Over here at least in NZ is the reality when you go and meet people in person, it's quite different from many website forums. Edited June 30, 2021 by RaymondC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Disappointment can also be caused by hope. For example, I hoped for a sunny day, but it rained. I'm disappointed. Sure. But it still is rather strange to bash a fine lemon curd cake because you were hoping for strawberry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I'm surprised by the tiny size of the entrance pupil/lens of the 28mm lens. Looks a bit toy like compared to it's much faster cousin's. Lemon or strawberry? Interestingly, Nikon didn't go for yellow! Coral Pink looks a bit like a strawberry smoothie....:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Still no joystick for focusing. Is there something wrong with using the multi-selector to change focus points? I never really migrated to the joystick. This is probably because the multi-controller functionality has stayed the same across generations of cameras. On another forum it was pointed out that the Z fc has no port for MC-DC2 so remote control is via mobile phone, no cable release. This moves me into the disappointed category. Snapbridge started as hopeless but it has improved over time and is usable now, but setting it up and remote triggering the camera is quite a complicated process compared to using a cable release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I'm surprised by the tiny size of the entrance pupil/lens of the 28mm lens. Looks a bit toy like compared to it's much faster cousin's. The lens has quite a lot of large elements towards its rear, though. Compared to AF 28mm f/2.8D: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Thanks Ilkka, that's interesting! Completely different design schematic. Are there many other small to big element wise lenses? Not sure I'd seen that type before; most slow lenses are a bit more symmetrical. Is this the first design that leverages the much bigger throat diameter of the Z mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Sure. But it still is rather strange to bash a fine lemon curd cake because you were hoping for strawberry. It's all I expected but none that I wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CvhKaar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 MM The price is not bad, but this is without FT-Z adapter, so you would need to add that i think.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Davies Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Nice for those who want it, but not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CvhKaar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Still no joystick for focusing. Would be better without Auto Focus all together .... :cool: Still no "Rangefinder" i would say ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Would be better without Auto Focus all together .... :cool: Still no "Rangefinder" i would say ;) I am wondering how would you incorporate a rangefinder to work with the Z lenses? It would be cool to have a retro based on the Nikon SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad_hoffman Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Conceptually, an EFV can display anything you want, including exactly what you'd see with a true RF camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I'm actually starting to like the thing. Could use some small, made of metal lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Conceptually, an EFV can display anything you want, including exactly what you'd see with a true RF camera. I wouldn't want that. I want a rangefinder with a direct optical viewfinder and a rangefinder. That's retro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad_hoffman Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 What if you couldn't tell by looking? We're a ways from that, but not so far as you might think. Now, I'll get flak for this, and strictly IMO, DX optical viewfinders are a far cry from FX and they just annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 What if you couldn't tell by looking? We're a ways from that, but not so far as you might think. Now, I'll get flak for this, and strictly IMO, DX optical viewfinders are a far cry from FX and they just annoy me. Nikon didn't make any film half frame camera so a retro Nikon should be full frame if not 24x32mm like the Nikon O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick D. Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I wouldn't want that. I want a rangefinder with a direct optical viewfinder and a rangefinder. That's retro. Get Leica, they have so many flavors :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Get Leica, they have so many flavors :) If I buy another the new camera it's very likely a Leica. Nikon don't make their cameras in Japan no more so I won't buy another new Nikon. Canon still makes a lot of cameras in Japan but I've been a Canon hater for a long time (perhaps I should change). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick D. Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Is there something wrong with using the multi-selector to change focus points? I never really migrated to the joystick. This is probably because the multi-controller functionality has stayed the same across generations of cameras. I use to have on 1D3, it really helps. With so many AF points available on modern MILS, and this "retro" Nikon isn't exception, joystick will speed up focus point selection. Overall I see this new camera just like another toy going head to head vs Fuji, Panasonic, but without lens choice Fuji and Panasonic already have. At list DF was built on premise of using of any Nikon lens:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I think the future of mirrorless 'progress', is going to be far less sensor related, as DSLR's improvements were. It's going to be EVF related. VFs were optically limited by the mirror and focusing screen, via pentaprism or pentamirror. Some of the early DX VFs were horribly tunnel-visioned. AKAIK there is no such limit to EVFs. Better resolution, better contrast, shorter 'lag' and blackout etc. I'm looking forward to a much more immersive view with full control of what and where you can see the info you want. Oh, and AF is going to have to improve too...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick D. Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 If I buy another the new camera it's very likely a Leica. Nikon don't make their cameras in Japan no more so I won't buy another new Nikon. Canon still makes a lot of cameras in Japan but I've been a Canon hater for a long time (perhaps I should change). Why people still care where it's made? Processes highly automated now, tolerances set by computers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) I use to have on 1D3, it really helps. With so many AF points available on modern MILS, and this "retro" Nikon isn't exception, joystick will speed up focus point selection. For clarity the above was not written by me although it appears that way in Nick's post. It was in Nick's reply to me. Nick, I never found the focus point selection using the joystick (Nikon call it the sub-selector) to be any easier or faster than using the multi-selector (ring with eight arrows and center button). Now, in some non-Nikon cameras, the arrow key pad doesn't immediately allow focus points to be moved but a focus point selection mode has to be initiated and after selecting the focus point, the selection has to be activated; this was the case with the Fuji X100S I used to have. This was slow and inconvenient. Fuji later added an additional control (what people call a joystick) to help with this process. However, with Nikon I never found it problematic to select focus points using the multi-selector. Nikon also added an additional control to some of their cameras (that people call the joystick, Nikon call it sub-selector) but because it doesn't share the ability of the multi-selector to navigate menus, I never adopted it into use. It can be programmed to do other things such as changing AF-area mode along with moving the focus point around and some people do use it. However, I find the multi-selector more convenient. I checked the Canon 1D III manual and it appears the joystick is called multi-selector in Canon parlance whereas Nikon's multi-selector is simply the ring button with eight arrows and center button. In those Nikons that have a separate joystick, it's called either multi-selector (vertical, for the vertical grip) or sub-selector (used mainly in horizontal shooting). However, I find the sub-selector to be largely redundant. The focus point can be just as easily be moved by any of the three, but only the two multi-selectors can navigate menus. If Nikon allowed the top joystick to also navigate menus, I might use it. I guess the preference for a particular shape of control used to move the focus point around is subjective. For me the multi-controller is what I normally use in horizontal orientation even although most of my cameras have a separate sub-selector. I don't even notice if I go and use my older camera which only has one selector for focus points. Its use is second nature. I do realize these things are subjective and different users have different habits and preferences. I doubt I'd have any difficulty with focus point selection on the Z fc, either. For me, an FX version would be preferable to keep the number of separate chargers down, and I don't like the fact that there is no provision for a physical cable release. However, I understand both design decisions (and no doubt the fact that there is no separate sub-selector) have to do with keeping the camera small. With regards to lens choice, Nikon have indicated they will have 30 native Z lenses available in 2022 (maybe as soon as March) and all of them should work on the Z fc. I don't see there so much a problem on that front. Edited July 1, 2021 by ilkka_nissila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I want to add that I have nothing against having more controls and the way Nikon implemented the vertical multi-selector and sub-selector is mechanically excellent. I would like to see more programming options for the sub-selector so that it matches the other two in function, if programmed to do so. My fingers can operate each of the three without concious attention to it. The sub-selector and vertical multi-selector have better tactile feedback than the multi-selector on non-vertical-gripped Nikon bodies such as my D850, but on the integral vertical grip bodies the (main) multi-selector has excellent tactile feedback as well. I don't have any problem operating those cameras which only implement one of these controls, and I don't really notice conciously which body or control I am using. I think smaller bodies are OK with just one controller. If you want faster focus point selection, you should be able to reduce the number of user-selectable points. I haven't personally found the need to do so, but my body with the largest number of focus points has 105. The Z fc has 209, so it is a bit more. I think our views are shaped by our previous experiences and everyone has a different history. This makes the camera designer's task that much harder as everyone has a different opinion on how the user interface should be set up. Some even want a massive reduction of features and controls such as no back LCD screen, no autofocus, only manual exposure mode, black and white only etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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