kmac Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) kmac, I hope things are continuing to improve there and that life for you and your fellow citizens can get back to some semblance of normal and at least safety even if it has been and will be changed for some time to come. Here in California, where we've had our own share of horrible and fatal fires, the positive note I can report (and I hope and assume you've experienced this as well) is that the incredible and numerous fire squads, police, neighbors, volunteer cooks and medics and others from near and far have come together to help. The understanding, support, and empathy of others in a time of hardship is both life saving and of great consolation. All the best. Yes I remember watching the California fires on the news. What I saw was the highest flames I've ever seen. I hope for the sake of Californians' it never happens again, just devastating to watch News reports here have gone off the boil, everything seems back to normal, but the rain has gone and temperatures are back up again plus many fires are still burning. The official Bush Fire site has them either "Being controlled" or "Under control". However, I can see a second round of dangerous fires coming now that conditions are back to hot and dry. I don't think it's over yet. We're praying for more rain and more water bombers. The politicians have gone silent on the issue and distracting us with other issues, the usual thing they do attempting to save their necks. A new fire has started near me I've just noticed on the map and if it gets any worse it will block one of my escape routes, I had two, I'm down to one now, fortunately it's surrounded with open ground most of the way. There was a compulsory call up of Army Reservists to assist firefighters and that should make a big difference to keep the fires at bay but new fires, as well as all the existing fires, will keep them busy for a long time yet. The call up wouldn't have been necessary if the politicians had poured more funds in for firefighting, they were warned early but as I understand, they actually cut finding. A lesson for America, "Prevention is better than Cure". I believe you have special cameras set up in forests/bush now, great idea, anything for early detection of fires is money well spent Edited January 22, 2020 by kmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmac Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) It goes without saying that yes, our friends in Australia and California have our support. There's currently American and Canadian firefighters here helping out at the moment. We are very grateful and hope they stay safe. They are friends for life Moving On Edited January 22, 2020 by kmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I believe you have special cameras set up in the bush now, great idea We do now have networks of cameras set up throughout several western states, a project with great effect and continuing to grow, started at Lake Tahoe. Of course, we'd more likely say they are set up in forests even though to this American's ears it sounds so much more exotic to say they're in the "bush!" :) "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Which has brought us full circle, as William encouraged, if even minimally, back to the subject of photography. Now, of course, we can continue on to the very important photo related topic of whether those cameras in the bush would be better if film or digital, Nikon or Canon ... JUST KIDDING! DON'T!!! I'M BEGGING! "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmac Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 We do now have networks of cameras set up throughout several western states, a project with great effect and continuing to grow, started at Lake Tahoe. Of course, we'd more likely say they are set up in forests even though to this American's ears it sounds so much more exotic to say they're in the "bush!" :) I understand. I went back and made an "Each Way Bet" edit ..... (forests/bush) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick D. Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Populations growth rates are declining....... One little virus..... Rate may be slowing, but overall numbers are steady climbing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmac Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 "Iconic" this iconic that. The most over used and cliched adjective. Still at least we seem to have stopped saying "synergy". Bushfires in OZ are obviously tragic... "Iconic" in the case of Matthew Abbott's photo only relates to the location of the fires, Australia, because of the inclusion of the kangaroo, without it, a fire like that could have been anywhere at all in the world. Matthew did well to frame and shoot that action shot, unless he used continuous shooting and selected the best image. At full stride kangaroos travel pretty fast - Top speed: over 60 km/h (close to 40 mph). A Red Kangaroo can leap eight metres far (25 feet) and three metres (10 feet) high! I realize it's not a world beating iconic shot but it went viral and served the purpose it was meant to serve, drawing peoples' attention to the devastation down-under. As well as wildfires, we also get these from time to time. A few good shots in this Link ... ‘Monster’ dust storms a ‘new norm’ for rural towns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 When the best scientists are saying that human caused climate change is a real and is exacerbating the problems with wildfires, wouldn't it be malfeasance, incompetence, and ignorance for the politicians and the bureaucrats not to do anything about it? If you're not going to listen to the scientists who are you going to listen to? Again, I'm not saying that these wildfires are exclusively caused by climate change, but the hot weather clearly makes things much worse. When those that live near the oceans, flood zones etc. etc. see their insurance rates sky rocket because of various changes in climate caused by a number of factors, they just might start seeing that human beings and their insatiable demand for fossil fuels might have something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Those ocean levels were much higher before insurance salesmen came along or fossil fuels were in use by man..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I remember some fool uncles of mine once debating what causes cancer at a great aunt’s funeral. Time and place ... "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supriyo Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 The fact is that Nature has its own equilibrium mechanisms to deal with CO2 production, and those mechanisms are clearly in action. There has been an estimated 18-20x increase in the total man-made CO emissions since 1960, and a ~3,8x increase in annual emissions (2.5x increase in population x 1.5 increase in emissions per capita) YET the total increase of CO2 (a MINOR greenhouse gas, the most significant one is H2O) has only been 1.4x during that same time frame. Care to propose a mathematical model that explains where all the rest of that CO2 went? Clearly it doesn't all remain in the atmosphere and even a first-order rxn kinetics model grossly over-predicts that amount (we would have 1500ppm of CO2 if that were true). Do the math yourself - you will find that the proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere as a function of production rate is more on the order of a CUBIC ROOT (x to the ~0.3 power). Hardly a runaway scenario there. While I am not going to get into a climate change debate, what you state there is an important point and I think has a lot to do with how ocean absorbs CO2 and three fourth of the Earth's surface is ocean. The question of equilibrium also needs more understanding and research, but if the oceans keep absorbing CO2 to maintain atmospheric levels, its pH can be affected and that can affect the marine ecosystem. Ocean's capacity to absorb CO2 is also thought to go down if atmospheric CO2 level increases beyond a threshold. It's true that nature tends to maintain its own equilibrium at least over moderate geological times, but restoring that equilibrium could come at a cost, to what degree we don't completely understand. It could involve part-extinctions, including that of humans. Interesting article from NASA's website discussing the interaction between ocean and CO2. Again, I am not taking any sides, but this is an interesting read. The Ocean’s Carbon Balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomspielman Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 But the Y2K disaster fizzled out to be a big dud. I really wanted to comply with the moderators request to get the discussion back to photography but I do have to respond to this one because it is central to the point I was trying to make. Then I'm done with this topic, - honest. ;) Yes, the problems that came as a result of the Y2K bug were relatively local and minor. But that was because companies and governments took the issue seriously, spent the money, updated the affected software and replaced old hardware. And guess what? - putting the resources into fixing it didn't send the economy into a tailspin. The economy was booming at the time. The tech industry employed a lot of people. I was right smack dab in the middle of it, I spent a couple of years running up to it making sure that my organization would be OK. Was there some unnecessary hysteria? Absolutely. As there is with global warming. That does not mean there isn't a genuine problem with potentially serious consequences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo_papandreou1 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 No one remembers the ozone hole but the Montreal Protocol is why everyone won't be dying of melanoma in 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmac Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Was there some unnecessary hysteria? Absolutely. As there is with global warming. That does not mean there isn't a genuine problem with potentially serious consequences. Will we see more "iconic" photos in the future of the "potentially serious consequences" ? We are in trouble down here in NSW. By that I mean we are confined indoors with air-conditioners going all day with power consumption at high levels. It's been going on for two months and still no let up. Here's two photos of my own taken days apart, one of smoke and one of dust, near to where I live Except for the occasional clear day due to a change of wind direction, the smoke has been like this for weeks on end. Reports have it that even folks in New Zealand are breathing in our smoke Dust storms seem to be more frequent, they originate out west and travel east towards Sydney and out to sea. Today there is a mixture of smoke and dust. The atmosphere is browny grey I'm noticing. In spite of travel agencies optimism, It's really not a good time to visit NSW These images can be kept in perpetuity as a record of 2019-2020 events in NSW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I expect most here aren’t in a position to post photos of what is going on. We’ll have to rely on residents/ visitors/ firefighters etc for that. I appreciate posts like the ones above that are relevant updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Three US firefighters die in ‘devastating’ plane crash battling Australia wildfires “These heroes came to our country to help fight these devastating fires, and they have paid the ultimate price,” Peter Henry Lawson wrote. “As a former member of the Australian Air Force, I love the sight of seeing these Hercules in fire fighting mode, and have a massive amount of admiration for the folks flying them. This just breaks my heart.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Please describe what those "tipping points" are, and what you consider to be "irreversible". The tipping points are legion. Antarctic ice, glaciers, etc. (e.g., LINK) If we could stop every and any thing right now from adding to greenhouse gases, for just one case, change would continue in the wrong directions for a very long time. The irreversible effect would be ending up like Venus. California Dreamin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 What point in earth’s history is the “Gold Standard” ? Sharks swimming over Tupelo Mississippi ? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 M e l l o w......nothing about the Cretaceous goings on though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 nothing about the Cretaceous goings on though... Exactly. "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Exactly. Telling..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 If all the ice melted, this is where we'd be. Not quite back to the Cretaceous inland sea, but Carbondale would a lot closer to the sea-- beachfront property at Cairo IL Here is the old shoreline in Kansas Modern lake coincides with Inland Sea eastern shore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 California Dreamin As long as we're wandering and wondering about, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) See the top of this page in the thread..... Edited January 23, 2020 by Moving On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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