In a Quandry

[Mary Doo]

A few friends were sitting out on my back deck one evening in low light level and we were shooting a bit. The 750 picked up the focus very quickly and accurately in the dark (the focus assist light is helpful), but the 500 struggled.

Good to know that your D750 did well in your focus test under the set of conditions you used it.

 

However, I was surprised that the D500 did not measure up in autofocus because D500 is known for fast focus. It has the same focus mechanism as the D5, and its target users are wildlife and action photographers.

 

Since this is a public Nikon forum that many depend upon for accurate information to make purchase decisions, I wanted to see if there were corroborating focus tests or other user-experiences to support your test results. However, I have not yet been able to find anything on the internet asserting D750 focus-superiority over D500. Have you found anything other than your personal experience?

 

The following samples in my casual search assert that D500 enjoys better focus ability.

 

See: Nikon D500 vs Nikon D750: Which DSLR should you choose? Scroll to Item #6 on Autofocus (click here).

 

Also: Here are two YouTube videos comparing the two cameras (click on the following links):

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Edited July 13, 2019 by Mary Doo

[Richard Williams]

Or, you can download and use a free DNG converter that removes virtually all compatibility issues.

Only if you use a raw converter from Adobe or another company that fully supports DNG input. Nikon doesn't, so this solution won't make your files compatible with NX2. On the other hand, NXD is pretty good these days, and they've restored control points.

[ben_hutcherson]

However, I was surprised that the D500 did not measure up in autofocus because D500 is known for fast focus. It has the same focus mechanism as the D5, and its target users are wildlife and action photographers.

 

Since this is a public Nikon forum that many depend upon for accurate information to make purchase decisions, I wanted to see if there were corroborating focus tests or other user-experiences to support your test results. However, I have not yet been able to find anything on the internet asserting D750 focus-superiority over D500. Have you found anything other than your personal experience?

 

The following samples in my casual search assert that D500 enjoys better focus ability.

 

I've know cameras to lose autofocus performance if the optics in the AF path somehow got dirty-I wonder if that's what's going on with the D500 the OP looked at.

 

This is a bit of an extreme example, but I was playing with an F5-a camera that at one time was the standard for AF performance(its day has passed, although it's still good in raw horsepower with heavy screwdriver lenses like an 80-200 f/2.8D or 300mm f/4 AF) that would only grudgingly lock if you basically pointed it at a bright, high contrast area-i.e. with a 50mm f/1.4 I could get it to lock when I put the selected focus point on an overhead light and neighboring ceiling tile, but that was about it.

 

The camera REEKED of cigarette smoke, so with the shop's permission I tried something that I wouldn't necessarily attempt on a newer. I locked up the mirror, then used an Kimwipe and Eclipse fluid to clean the cover of the AF CCD in the bottom of the mirror box. On my first couple of attempts, the wipe came up brown-black, then lightened up a bit to yellow. Finally, it wiped clean. I dropped the mirror back down, and the camera focused just as you would expect from an F5.

 

There again, I'd never attempt it myself on a 50-million-point AF sensor on a D500, and the F5 makes things like this easy since you have a mechanical mirror lock up. Still, though, it showed me that this CAN be a problem.

[Dieter Schaefer]

The 750 picked up the focus very quickly and accurately in the dark (the focus assist light is helpful), but the 500 struggled.

Same or at least similar lenses, I suppose? If the D750 had an f/1.4 and the D500 an f/4 one, I'd suppose there could be some differences in AF performance. I'd be rather surprised if the D750 beat the D500 when the same lens is used on both. Then it would also depend on the AF mode each camera was in (AF-S vs AF-C, single point vs multiple etc.). Did everyone focus on the same subject with the same focal length?

Edited July 13, 2019 by Dieter Schaefer

[Fiddlefye]

Same or at least similar lenses, I supposed. If the D750 had an f/1.4 and the D500 an f/4 one, I'd suppose there could be some differences in AF performance. I'd be rather surprise if the D750 beat the D500 when the same lens is used on both. Then it would also depend on the AF mode each camera was in (AF-S vs AF-C, single point vs multiple etc.). Did everyone focus on the same subject with the same focal length?

We were both using pretty standard mid - range VR zooms and in fact it was me taking photos of the same subject (my friend) seated at the same location under the same dim light with the two cameras. As I was knocking off shot after shot my friend was trying to get his D500 (three days old) to focus and it was struggling. Hence he handed me (as the more experienced photographer) his camera to see what was going on. As far as I could tell the D500 doesn't have a focus assist light. I didn't see hide nor hair of one on the front of the camera, nor any mention in the menu. Given the extended ISO range of these cameras one can be pretty useful at times. Maybe an "amateur" feature, but worth having in extremis.

[Dieter Schaefer]

AF sensitivity -4EV D500, -3EV D750. Comparing one camera with AF-assist light on with another that doesn't have that feature isn't a meaningful comparison; turn the AF assist off on the D750 and then try the comparison again.

[Fiddlefye]

AF sensitivity -4EV D500, -3EV D750. Comparing one camera with AF-assist light on with another that doesn't have that feature isn't a meaningful comparison; turn the AF assist off on the D750 and then try the comparison again.

It wasn't a comparison of specs, but rather what could actually be accomplished under particularly difficult circumstances, ie. outdoors on our deck after midnight, with the only lighting being a string of LED "fairy lights". The focus assist in the 750 made easy work of the situation, the D500 struggled mightily and mostly failed. Had I turned off the focus assist light in my 750 the D500 would probably have been the better camera, but then they both would have struggled.

[ben_hutcherson]

AF sensitivity -4EV D500, -3EV D750. Comparing one camera with AF-assist light on with another that doesn't have that feature isn't a meaningful comparison; turn the AF assist off on the D750 and then try the comparison again.

 

I have the dang thing turned off on all my cameras that have it-I don't notice much difference in performance, just a reduction in the annoyance factor.

 

If I'm using an SB-800(I don't have anything newer/fancier) I'm not opposed to using the grid, which I find both more effective and less obnoxious than the spot light...

[Fiddlefye]

I have the dang thing turned off on all my cameras that have it-I don't notice much difference in performance, just a reduction in the annoyance factor.

 

If I'm using an SB-800(I don't have anything newer/fancier) I'm not opposed to using the grid, which I find both more effective and less obnoxious than the spot light...

The focus assist on my D750 only comes on when it is really very dark and useful. Otherwise it never turns on. The difference between my 750 with the focus assist light and my friend's brand-new D500 without was the difference between quick and accurate focus and long hunting and 80% failure rate. It might be annoying, but it got the pics, the D500 without did not.

 

Here is one of the shots I took that evening. I got a half dozen shots of the same result. With the D500 I managed one successful shot, it took a long time for the camera to find something it could focus on and even then all but the one weren't focused properly. It was a very difficult shooting situation as you can see from the data. (D500 in the foreground).

 

Nikon D750, AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED, ƒ/4.2, 38.0 mm,1/13 12800 ISO

DSC_4836 by fiddlefye, on Flickr

[Mary Doo]

With the D500 I managed one successful shot, it took a long time for the camera to find something it could focus on and even then all but the one weren't focused properly. It was a very difficult shooting situation as you can see from the data. (D500 in the foreground).

Dunno, I can't seem to duplicate your experience. I took my D500+80-400mm lens outside the door to shoot at the moon handheld, then came inside to shoot the mantel handheld in dim light. Also tried on a number of other items. The D500+lens were able to focus quickly as long as there was a sliver of light to make the distinction.

[Fiddlefye]

All I can say is that my friend tried taking shots of me and couldn't get the camera to stop hunting for a long time so he handed it to me to try. I finally did get it to lock focus and took a shot successfully. This was the one taken with the D500 (via his FB page). Both cameras work beautifully. I'd be happy with either, though my collection of lenses would be less thrill with the 500.

[Mary Doo]

All I can say is that my friend tried taking shots of me and couldn't get the camera to stop hunting for a long time so he handed it to me to try.

Hmm... very puzzling, as there seems to be plenty of light - definitely more light than my tests. Anyhow, I think it was an anomaly - not sure what was the variable that caused the D500 autofocus to fail.

[Fiddlefye]

Hmm... very puzzling, as there seems to be plenty of light - definitely more light than my tests. Anyhow, I think it was an anomaly - not sure what was the variable that caused the D500 autofocus to fail.

I dd finally manage to get my friend's D500 to lock focus (as you can see by that last pic) but it wasn't an instant thing and it wasn't happy about it.

[Mary Doo]

I dd finally manage to get my friend's D500 to lock focus (as you can see by that last pic) but it wasn't an instant thing and it wasn't happy about it.

Based on the the lighting condition observed in your sample photos, the D500 focus should be instant. As mentioned before, the focus problem from your friend's D500 appears to be an anomaly.

[Fiddlefye]

Based on the the lighting condition observed in your sample photos, the D500 focus should be instant. As mentioned before, the focus problem from your friend's D500 appears to be an anomaly.

Depending upon how one does the calculations the EV when the photos were taken was about 0.67. Both cameras should be able to focus without difficulty without focus assist, but for some reason the 500 hunted and struggled. Sometime I will have to try the D750 with the focus assist with the focus assist off to see how it does. The situation is easily replicated any evening...

[ShunCheung]

Among other bodies, I have both a D750 and a D500. The D500 definitely has better AF. However, someone who has had a D500 for only 3 days most likely hasn't figured out how to optimize the new camera yet. Back in January 2016, Nikon introduced the D5 and D500 simultaneously with a new, top-of-the-line AF module the Multi-CAM 20000. Later on Nikon added the D850 that also uses the same AF module. Unless one has prior experience with one of those three bodies, it takes some time to get familiar with the Multi-CAM 2000. In particular, the D500 is DX so that the AF points are more spreaded out on the entire frame.

[Fiddlefye]

Among other bodies, I have both a D750 and a D500. The D500 definitely has better AF. However, someone who has had a D500 for only 3 days most likely hasn't figured out how to optimize the new camera yet. Back in January 2016, Nikon introduced the D5 and D500 simultaneously with a new, top-of-the-line AF module the Multi-CAM 20000. Later on Nikon added the D850 that also uses the same AF module. Unless one has prior experience with one of those three bodies, it takes some time to get familiar with the Multi-CAM 2000. In particular, the D500 is DX so that the AF points are more spreaded out on the entire frame.

I've no doubt that the D500 has the better autofocus, never fear (though I've never had any complaints with my 750 on the level). BTW - gorgeous Contax in your avatar pic! I'd love one....

[Mary Doo]

I've no doubt that the D500 has the better autofocus,

I am glad you finally agree. It is important to dispatch accurate information on a public forum such as this.

[Fiddlefye]

I am glad you finally agree. It is important to dispatch accurate information on a public forum such as this.

I wasn't actually disagreeing at any point in time if you read my posts. The specs are what they are and the 500 is a bit better (by 1 EV I think?) than the 750 in that regard, most certainly. I never suggested otherwise.

 

I was mentioning a situation which took place which was in fact a rather one-sided battle as my 750 had the assist light enabled and the 500 doesn't have one. At an EV of approximately 0.67 either camera should have had no problem focusing without an assist light, as far as that goes. I wish I'd thought to try my camera with the light turned off, but it was a party and you know how that goes! Not exactly a rigourous scientific experiment.

 

I am rather familiar with how Nikon's autofocus system function in general, went into the menu and tried various options, so it wasn't just how my friend had his camera set up. Apart from that specific situation focus was snappy and accurate with the 500.

[Mary Doo]

I wasn't actually disagreeing at any point in time if you read my posts.

It did not sound that way but I guess I know what you "really" mean.

[Andrew Garrard]

AFAICT, Fiddlefye did start out by saying the AF assist light was a significant difference between the two, so let's chalk it down to a misunderstanding. I don't think I've actually registered that there's no AF assist light on my D850 before - I do tend to have it turned off on my D810, because if it's dark enough to be needed I tend to be shooting where I don't want to annoy people by shining a light in their faces, or my subject will be too far away to help. A party is a perfectly reasonable scenario to use one, however. It'd often be blocked by some of my lenses anyway; I guess, along with Nikon's confidence in the new AF system, that may be why the D500 and D850 lack one?

 

The main problem I had with a rented D500 and subsequently my D850 is that I historically used 3D tracking most of the time. On the D810, you can use 3D tracking exactly like single-point AF, except that if the subject moves the AF will follow it. The D500 and D850 will focus in 3D tracking on any AF assist points that are nearer to the subject than the core point - not acquire initial focus on the selected point first, at least as far as I can tell; I started a thread on this, but I need to post a video to prove it. It's annoying - and means I use single point a lot more. The D500 resulted in a lot of front-focussed seat otters near Monterey (the camera locked on the seaweed in front of them); the D850 likes eyebrows and foreground foliage when I'm shooting through branches. I'm a bit nervous of any feature request to Nikon that starts with "please change your AF algorithm", though.

[Fiddlefye]

AFAICT, Fiddlefye did start out by saying the AF assist light was a significant difference between the two, so let's chalk it down to a misunderstanding. I don't think I've actually registered that there's no AF assist light on my D850 before - I do tend to have it turned off on my D810, because if it's dark enough to be needed I tend to be shooting where I don't want to annoy people by shining a light in their faces, or my subject will be too far away to help. A party is a perfectly reasonable scenario to use one, however. It'd often be blocked by some of my lenses anyway; I guess, along with Nikon's confidence in the new AF system, that may be why the D500 and D850 lack one?

 

The main problem I had with a rented D500 and subsequently my D850 is that I historically used 3D tracking most of the time. On the D810, you can use 3D tracking exactly like single-point AF, except that if the subject moves the AF will follow it. The D500 and D850 will focus in 3D tracking on any AF assist points that are nearer to the subject than the core point - not acquire initial focus on the selected point first, at least as far as I can tell; I started a thread on this, but I need to post a video to prove it. It's annoying - and means I use single point a lot more. The D500 resulted in a lot of front-focussed seat otters near Monterey (the camera locked on the seaweed in front of them); the D850 likes eyebrows and foreground foliage when I'm shooting through branches. I'm a bit nervous of any feature request to Nikon that starts with "please change your AF algorithm", though.

I get the impression that the differences in exactly how an autofocus system makes decisions can be pretty subtle. Sure, the manual tells one how it all works, but that never seems to quite convey what happens out in the field when working quickly and under a bit of duress. So many variables are involved including one's composition tendencies. Shooting habits resulting from cumulative experience come into play. A system that focuses based on where they eye is looking is a cool concept except that I am constantly looking at everything in a frame right up to and through the moment of exposure.

 

My experience started out decades ago with a rangefinder camera and those habits have carried through to the present day, for good or ill. I have my camera set up with a single focus spot in the middle (like a rangefinder) and automatically pick up and focus where I want it in the process of composing an image. Am I getting all of the possibilities out of my camera? Absolutely not. On the other hand I get almost zero focus errors during a day of shooting. I still use manual focus lenses quite a bit and do the same with them with the same result. Sure, I'm just an old fuddy-duddy, but it works well for me. YMMV as always.

[DavidTriplett]

For other than sports and birds in flight, I've fully made the transition to back button focus and single point, continuous focus on my D810 and D7100. Admittedly, I'm a control freak, so this allows me to very precisely choose the primary focus point in every image, focus there, then recompose and expose. It also means I don't worry about the camera shifting focus between exposures as it tries to decide what I really want in focus, rather than me telling it. Not sure if this relates to the OP, but it seems to be quite effective if virtually every lighting condition.

[Andrew Garrard]

The D850 let's you assign Fn1 and Pv to both switch AF mode and initiate autofocus. Generally I've used AF-On with 3D tracking, but I can now use the front buttons to initiate other options when it's not working, quickly. (It's not that weird to me because I've got used to using the front-mounted Fn button on my Coolpix A to initiate AF.) Usually I have single-point on one, and area on the other, so I can nail a stationary subject, 3D track it if it moves past a background, and capture it by area if all else fails and the foreground won't confuse it (think bird on a branch, bird taking off, bird buzzing me overhead). It does mean I can't use those buttons to switch metering mode or trigger the digital level, annoyingly, so I do tend to change my configuration by what I'm doing - although I only tend to have a separate bank set up for trap focus. IIRC the D810 doesn't let you do that, which makes it fortunate that 3D tracking works better for me there.