How to start making money on photography?

[paul ron]

but rusian, if you want to make money, you cant just read blogs as if they are the last word. you actually have to do it to make it happen.

 

im not interested in someone elses opinions. you know what they say about opinions?... they are like a$$holes, everybody has one n they all stink.

 

i made my mark in photography, n now enjoy a very comfortable retirement.

 

what have YOU done or doing now? how are you making your million$?

 

btw im still waiting to see some of your work posted here? im sure you must have some amazing photos of your great city? whats your market?

[The Shadow]

btw im still waiting to see some of your work posted here?

A quick look at Ruslan's postings (click on the name under his icon and then use the POSTINGS link) brought me to these.

 

INSIDE A CABIN PHOTO LINK

 

CROCKERY PHOTO LINK

 

POND PHOTO LINK

[William Michael]

The OP, if still reading, should indeed research Emin Kuliyev. And the OP should research the Photographers/Studios that I mentioned.

 

BTW - Emin is well known outside Russia and also outside New York and the USA; he and his work and his style are especially well known amongst Wedding Photographers who subscribe to, or mix in International Wedding Photographers' Associations.

 

His distinctive style is typified by the regular use of an High Camera Viewpoint, usually employing a Wide Angle Lens. He also employs the technique of using two Cameras, one in each hand. When I was corresponding with him, he used to capture only JPEG files, I assume that he still does that – this is only one example of techniques that were ‘scandalous’ to many who frequented internet forums, who would nay-say any new ideas or ideas which were out of the prescribed regurgitation of typical internet forum gossip.

 

Another salient point is, in 2004/5, there were also many internet naysayers prescribing that no one could make money in Photography. I doubt that Emin took much notice of them.

 

Additional to Emin's Photographic talent, he has business acumen and a keen mind that constantly thinks outside the box. One example was when he offered to shoot as a second photographer for free – the purpose being to get to know is new cameras. [LINK]

 

Those are another three more points which address the OP’s question – How to make money in Photography? –

 

Develop a keen business mind

Think outside the box

Learn to differentiate between outright naysayers and the valuable cautions from experience.

 

WW

[William Michael]

I have taken about 60 - 65 weddings during my life and here in my country the decline is even stronger. . .

. . . you make generalizations based on what youve experianced and read as if its the rule that applies to all. [New York City] here 65 weddings is not a life time, its only a few months work. the wedding guys are racking up in quantity sales, not making a fortune but doing very well year round. most wedding togs get hooked up with catering halls or are affiliated with DJs as package deals. btw wedding halls here are booked so tight, you have to reserve them a year or more in advance. . .

 

As we are discussing Wedding Photography: I happen to have some reasonable flying hours in that camp, about 1500 Weddings covered during 32 years and three Studios.

 

My comment is this - there are (unique) differences and (trending) similarities in the Wedding Photography Business, world-wide.

 

Much depends on one’s location as to how the business should be structured.

 

As a simple example, let’s take those simple stats – I worked mainly in Sydney Australia and our Wedding Photography Businesses were structured very differently to “65 weddings being only a few months work”.

 

On average I (personally) completed about one wedding per week, for 32 years. Now that is not to say that I could not have structured the Wedding Photography Business differently and shot one on Friday; two or three on Saturday; and one or two on Sunday and perhaps one or two through the rest of the week.

 

Our decision was predicated on our analysis of our Target Market and that Market was located in Sydney. We decided (amongst other elements) the element of maximum DIFFERENTIATION for our Business was to be prescriptive concerning the number of Wedding Contracts we would engage.

 

Although the OP stated that they are interested in a range of Photography endeavours, it would be good if BratNikotin / Dima responded to these commentaries – at least then we could fine tune the discussion.

 

WW

[William Michael]

From your link, I got to this video which is pretty damn amazing as a wedding video. . .

 

Yep that's Emin - thinking outside the box. Thanks for posting it.

[William Michael]

. . . to put that in perspective, when he offered to work for free, his business was beginning to become established and his work was well respected to those who knew of it.

That's even more "thinking outside the box" - he valued trading his time and talent for a non-monetary gain.

The benefit to Emin was simply to test out his new cameras, under real conditions.

[William Michael]

Yes. Gary was in Sydney, 2016. It was a very Interesting and informative session.

I prefer "face to face" rather than watching videos. I guess that's old school, and I said that: he laughed at that comment, especially when I noted that I had paid to listen to him, "face to face".

Personally I think he's a really nice bloke. And, he is willing to share. As he mentioned he makes more money from his investments than speaking at seminars and motivating people: the salient point is - he really gets joy using his gift, to motivate people.

[Sandy Vongries]

I think there is a big difference between "making money on photography", and making a living at it. From the specialized equipment many of us have, to acquired skills, there are myriad ways to turn a few bucks here and there in support of a hobby. Everything from making duplicates of Uncle Bob's portrait, to scanning / printing prized old slides or negatives, shooting insurance shots, small events, etc. etc. In a small community or neighborhood in a larger one, you can get the word around. At that level, it doesn't have to be the big events, and in most cases, unless previous successful pro level experience justifies it, it shouldn't be. Nearly everyone has a phone, or nice camera - but there are a lot of things they can't do with them. A lot of us can fill in the blanks for folks who want the help.

[ruslan]

im still waiting to see some of your work posted here? im sure you must have some amazing photos of your great city?

Paul. OK.

After communicating with Rodney Smith I took this photo and it went directly to the best dozen of National Geographic. (The couple on the bank of the Volga river). Photography is my hobby, I did occasional weddings.

Daily Dozen for Nov. 23, 2012 — Photos — National Geographic Your Shot

[ruslan]

im sure you must have some amazing photos of your great city

Actually I mentioned Moscow but I don't live there though I know the market situation around the country. I live in a town with 200000-citizen population.

[ruslan]

Much depends on one’s location as to how the business should be structured.

That's right. In our language there is an idiom "small screw" (винтик) it means "to be a part of a system" or "to be a slave". Some photographers take a lot of weddings, but they work for agencies, which are greedy for money and they do not earn much a year. They wear their equipment and harm health runniong like dogs for 14 hours. Mostly it takes place in our 2 biggest cities.

Yep that's Emin - thinking outside the box.

Talent, yes he has it. But I think there was a lot of PR also and massive internet-media buzz at his start. Also he uses some techique of staged photojournalism (I call it this way) and he became copied in this approach. To my taste his photos has too much tension (for me).

But don't forget - he is skeptical in this regard (money) now.

I will watch his interview again, if you want, watch, translate and we can return to him.

Edited November 15, 2018 by ruslan

[ruslan]

Many people (in comments below) call him boring or dull, but I don't think so. :confused: I guess tired.

Timeline 3:50 and on

"It is unreal to hang on in wedding photography business and to make a living for a long time is unreal. The best way to earn moiney for a photographer is to sell his camera" ©

Edited November 15, 2018 by ruslan

[paul ron]

rusian, if you keep talking yourself out of trying, you will never know if you can be successful. I was watching a movie a few weeks ago called WHIPLASH. Its about a student drummer that wants to be the best n insists he will become great one day. His teacher at Juliard is a rough sun o beach n pushes so hard, even humiliate his students n verbally tortures them so bad, most of his students flunk out or worse. but one line in the movie said it all in the end.... "the greats never quit trying no matter how tough it gets. If you only get to be good... then the bar for great is lowered because anyone can be good... but never great." Thats what makes the greats great, they never quit trying. So listening to other's opinions will justify your reasons for never trying? You failed before you even got started.

 

BTW congratulations on that NG shot. Nice job.

 

small city, big city... makes no difference, people are people. in small cities, people seem more interesting for some reason, at least I think so. Have you ever tried street shooting? You also have some wonderful architecture in your cities that will eventually change to look like the typical cheap cookie cutter big cities. I enjoy people watching.. better than bird watching, n they move slower too.

 

we are getting off track here.. maybe start a new thread?

[ruslan]

rusian, if you keep talking yourself out of trying, you will never know if you can be successful. I was watching a movie a few weeks ago called WHIPLASH. Its about a student drummer that wants to be the best n insists he will become great one day. His teacher at Juliard is a rough sun o beach n pushes so hard, even humiliate his students n verbally tortures them so bad, most of his students flunk out or worse. but one line in the movie said it all in the end.... "the greats never quit trying no matter how tough it gets. If you only get to be good... then the bar for great is lowered because anyone can be good... but never great." Thats what makes the greats great, they never quit trying. So listening to other's opinions will justify your reasons for never trying? You failed before you even got started.

I am totally agree with you, just I have my own business as a self-employed person (this is not a photography though I have done a number of paid orders including a graduation day) and I took the plunge starting it. I have a very strong intuition and I clearly see that I should not invest into fancy top-class equipment and do commercial photography on regular basis (at least here). I do it for my pleasure.

I have tried street shooting but did it occasionally. I shot gypsy kids which I guess my best street shot. Maybe next summer I will try to do it in Saratov (a megapolis) cause in winter it is too cold. This is a band of Ecuadorians in my town.

I will see a film about the drummer I promise. I see it on our free channels.

If the OP is reading he may try it but without super high hopes, I think, but yes, he should work like a fanatic constantly raising his level. .

 

[paul ron]

you'll enjoy the movie. the music is great too.

 

nice pic.

[DB_Gallery]

Yes, I have taken about 60 - 65 weddings during my life and here in my country the decline is even stronger, the situation is alike what she descrbes.

 

Weddings, good god no, I think I did one when I was 19 and that was the last.

 

You seem to want to hate on the profession and you know what? I am glad you are because it will make other people who read this miserable narrative give up and be less competition for those who have what it takes. I have been in business as a full time commercial and editorial photographer for 30+ years and biz is now better than ever. In fact, biz is so good I bought a bigger house a couple years ago in order to have a large darkroom to print up to 4x5' feet.

 

You seem *awfully* bitter for a hobby photo enthusiast in regards to this topic....

[ruslan]

In fact, biz is so good I bought a bigger house a couple years ago in order to have a large darkroom to print up to 4x5' feet.

You are a fiction writer. I see your portfolio. If you are the Daniel Bayer from Aspen. Having seen your shots for a local magazine but I don't see international awards nor publications in worldwide famous press/media nor workshops. Please pass by and all the best to you and you work for a local magazine. I am not bitter I just quoted some top-notch photographers of the world with real names whose opinions do matter for me and I am glad for you and your work for a local magazine and I don't need your opinion. I would add what I think of boastful people, but I will not :p

Edited November 20, 2018 by ruslan

[DB_Gallery]

You are a fiction writer. I see your portfolio. If you are the Daniel Bayer from Aspen. Having seen your shots for a local magazine but I don't see international awards nor publications in worldwide famous press/media nor workshops. Please pass by and all the best to you and you work for a local magazine. I am not bitter I just quoted some top-notch photographers of the world with real names whose opinions do matter for me and I am glad for you and your work for a local magazine and I don't need your opinion. I would add what I think of boastful people, but I will not :p

 

But who are you?

 

Really, who the heck are you at 60 weddings in to concoct that there is no real money ( 6 figures ) to be made in photography and then turn around and twist it into what awards have been won or not? I keep ( try ) a low profile because of several major clients I have who make up the bulk of my income, not local pubs by the way and I do plenty of work for much bigger ones.

 

This is the problem anymore, I refuse to mentor any other way than in person in order to gain trust because of people like you who just burn every bridge they can possibly set alight. You talk as if all I have done thus far is all I am capable of and I am resting on my laurels and that is all I need to do. Bullshit. I have attained financial success and I am now working my ass off creatively speaking to make not good or great work but significant work, the kind that leaves a legacy.

 

Why crap all over people in a place like this?

What did you gain from anything you said to people on here? It’s people like you who make me keep 95% of my work out of the public eye and avoid places like enthusiast forums, just plain nastiness at every turn.

 

No one needs you here or anywhere for that matter if all you can do is vomit your one size fits all misery all over anyone who challenges your tired assertions.

 

I have no idea who you are and frankly I could care less.

[ruslan]

But who are you?

 

Really, who the heck are you at 60 weddings in to concoct that there is no real money ( 6 figures ) to be made in photography and then turn around and twist it into what awards have been won or not? I keep ( try ) a low profile because of several major clients I have who make up the bulk of my income, not local pubs by the way and I do plenty of work for much bigger ones.

 

This is the problem anymore, I refuse to mentor any other way than in person in order to gain trust because of people like you who just burn every bridge they can possibly set alight. You talk as if all I have done thus far is all I am capable of and I am resting on my laurels and that is all I need to do. Bullshit. I have attained financial success and I am now working my ass off creatively speaking to make not good or great work but significant work, the kind that leaves a legacy.

 

Why crap all over people in a place like this?

What did you gain from anything you said to people on here? It’s people like you who make me keep 95% of my work out of the public eye and avoid places like enthusiast forums, just plain nastiness at every turn.

 

No one needs you here or anywhere for that matter if all you can do is vomit your one size fits all misery all over anyone who challenges your tired assertions.

 

I have no idea who you are and frankly I could care less.

So why did you see red?! Relax and pass by to your clients. You started to teach me and boast. Ha-ha. That was my opinion backed by some stats and opinions like Kuliev and others - for the OP not for your teacheng or mentoring me. You started to teach me and boast by what?! I googled up "photography in Aspen" and Google did not show me your name nor site on first 3 pages though the town is 7400 people only. So relax and be "low profile" and please, do not teach me.

[ruslan]

all you can do is vomit

 

You are ill.

[William Michael]

MODERATOR NOTE: Enough personal attacks. Thank you. First and only warning.

 

William

[Nick D.]

What a lively discussion. I remember photo studio few blocks away from my office, 30 or so years ago, I was visiting it every few years, to get new passport photo.

Guy was working my dream job, with old large format camera, his pay check was way less than mine, but he was doing photography for living:(

[Jochen_S]

Sorry, not much personal experience. It has been a side job while I studied or an 8th of my job now. Having been known as a wild & eager shutterbug lead to getting networked into a products shooter job.

If you want to get an insight into an apparently working self employed career: Watch a few videos by "Sasser Boudoir" on YouTube. - I recommend that guy for 2 reasons: he seems well organized + quite minimalistic about his gear and also straight forward in his attempts to get his job right, for him. (Summarizing: He previously did weddings but gave them up, to gain more freedom and easier money. He might be fortunate by possessing the right kind of makeshift studio / home, in the right place. - Looking at him proofs: Success seems to be about self marketing skills followed by model posing / people skills. The rest he does looks quite efficient, especially in the digital darkroom, where the difference between starving and successful artists seems to get made; i.e: It is only a question of time, wasted on editing / culling each individual frame, to pull your earnings below minimum wage.)

Upon earning via photography in general: I met dropped out journeyman photographers too. - Some jobs feel more "right" than others. And since we all are probably different, nobody can tell what the right job for somebody else might be. If luxuries like the Porsche suggested by @ruslan are your thing: Photography isn't the ideal career path to gain them; better get a perfect part time job earning those and the fancy camera gear, to enjoy during the other half of your day...

[ruslan]

Watch a few videos by "Sasser Boudoir"

I just took my time and watched a video on which he tells how to shoot or how not to shoot a model. This is quite a primitive information, which is found in proper books and nothing new. Waste of time really. If you want to shoot girls in apartments and gain profits (ha-ha) you should be tied with top art-directors, editors and couturiers. I underline this TOP. Not a local kids' model agency or a school. And they will give you the path, the market, the clientele. And you will be shooting Vodianova, Irina Shaik and Gigi Hadid. And after many years you will get the name working for you in different countries Don't you think that Sasser is a hobbyst? He looks and speaks like a hobbyst.

 

For Boudoir genre I recommend to watch Peter Lindergh photoshoots on FTV or youtube or even better his books.

 

Photography isn't the ideal career path to gain them; better get a perfect part time job earning those and the fancy camera gear, to enjoy during the other half of your day...

 

Just right, this is just what I was telling to the OP.

[Jochen_S]

I just took my time and watched

Arrgh! - Sorry, I wasn't attempting to carry owls to Athens! & did not pick & recommend Sasser as an example artist / arts-online guru for you. <- I mean that with a lot of respect for the similar shots you have posted so far

Don't you think that Sasser is a hobbyst? He looks and speaks like a hobbyst.

What's wrong about that? - The OP asked about how to make money and seems so far to be a hobbyist too.

Photography has 2 aspects: Skills & $$s. It is not something like boxing (or any other sport), where professionals necessarily have to be better than amateurs.

I am not familiar with US$s but suspect Sasser, who apparently charges $495 session fee, including hair & make up artist, to be able to make a living on anything beyond 14 clients per month. Since he claims to spend 8h or less in total per client that doesn't sound too bad. (Even if we deduct $95 for the hair & makeup artist, there are still 400 to be split equally between the man, the business, taxes, future & Murphy.

 

The two of us entirely disagree upon career goals.

• IMHO anything that keeps somebody health insured, tax paying, social insured, alive and very modestly financially independent is fine. Wealth is overrated!
  
• Customer satisfaction counts; absolute quality of the delivered service doesn't! - Look at the world's biggest fast food chain: Around here the odds for them selling you neither even really luke warm, nor for my taste crisp enough French fries aren't low, more like 33%, but still: They are(!) in business and people shrug that sad experience of, for which reason ever.
  

Sorry, I don't want to offend anybody. Wealth or being among the very best in your field aren't bad things. But: If you are a happy monkey earning enough peanuts for your needs, you are fine! - Sod the Joneses! Be proud to be part of the same traffic jam, as them in their brand new Porsche Cayenne, with your few-100€/$ wheel set.