Nikon Introduces Mirrorless Z System

[mike_halliwell]

Is no-one bothered about the 320 frames or 10-15min video from a full charge?

 

Nikon Z 6 | Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera

 

..and that's on a new EN-EL15b. Standard EN-EL15 and 15a batts will take fewer pics and less video..

[ilkka_nissila]

Yes, but dpreview got 1600 images and some video on one battery charge, so that's not so bad.

[mike_halliwell]

So why are they being SO conservative? That would put me off even trying it!

 

Are Nikon just wrong? 500% wrong?

 

Is it a typo? 1320 frames maybe?

 

.........or 320 frames AND 10-15min video?

Edited August 23, 2018 by mike_halliwell

[Dieter Schaefer]

Is no-one bothered about the 320 frames

It's 290 (CIPA) for the A7RII with its NP-FW50 battery and 530/650 for the A7RIII with the new NP-FZ1000 battery (viewfinder/LCD screen use). The older Sony battery was only 1080mAh, the newer one is 2280mAh; Nikon's EN-EL15/EN-EL15a is 1900mAh and I assume the EN-EL15b is the same. Apparently Sony found a way to make the their 3rd Generation less power hungry.

 

Yes, but dpreview got 1600 images and some video on one battery charge, so that's not so bad.

IIRC, then the A7RIII/A7III also get more shots than the CIPA numbers indicate.

[rodeo_joe1]

OK. So Nikon haven't really competed on specification against Sony, and they sure haven't competed on price. Plus the iffy 'choice' of a single XQD only, is pretty much the last straw deal breaker.

 

Bye, bye Nikon. The future's Sony!

[Dieter Schaefer]

Z7 can only do 5.5fps with autofocus and autoexposure between shots, and 9fps with settings fixed

If I read dpreview correctly, the only AE has to be locked to get 9fps. Just found this in a different dpreview article:

 

This sensor can support continuous shooting at up to 5.5 frames per second if you want updated live view between shots. If you aren't trying to follow action and don't need live view, the Z 7's 'High+' mode can shoot even faster. This mode allows full autofocus but locks the exposure settings after taking the first image. High+ shoots at 8 fps in 14-bit Raw or 9 if you drop to 12-bit mode.

 

OK. So Nikon haven't really competed on specification against Sony, and they sure haven't competed on price. Plus the iffy 'choice' of a single XQD only

A bit harsh, the spec comparisons I have seen so far look pretty close between the Z6 and A7III, and the Z7 and A7RIII - aside from the stated battery life and Nikon's inexplicable choice of 1 card slot. That Nikon doesn't provide Eye-AF is a bit of a bummer though. Devil's in the details though - often the specs don't really list the limitations and in reading dpreview, Nikon does seem to fall a bit short of Sony with some of those.

 

Here's one from dpreview:

The Z 7's buffer is unusually small for a camera at this level. It can shoot just 25 fine quality JPEGs, 23 12-bit Raws or 18 14-bit Raws. The use of fast XQD media means the buffer clears reasonably quickly but you'll certainly notice when you hit its limit.

 

Price for the A7III and Z6 are identical and the Z7 costs currently $400 more than the A7RIII (on account of a $200 discount for the latter).

 

The Nikon looks better though;)

Edited August 23, 2018 by Dieter Schaefer

[ilkka_nissila]

If I read dpreview correctly, the only AE has to be locked to get 9fps .

 

Okay, I got that wrong. But a fixed exposure during a burst seems pretty odd and somewhat limiting also, depending on what it is used for.

 

Also live view between frames is available only up to 5.5fps; at 9fps you don't get real-time updates of the viewfinder image between frames apparently. In practice this would limit the usage of the high fps rates quite severely.

Edited August 23, 2018 by ilkka_nissila

[Dieter Schaefer]

I would imagine both the 14-30mm/f4 and 14-24mm/f2.8 will have a bulging front element. Personally I would like to see a 16-35mm/f2.8 or f4 that can accept conventional front filters.

You're probably right - here's hoping that the 14-30 may take a conventional filter.

[Dieter Schaefer]

So why are they being SO conservative? That would put me off even trying it!

Are Nikon just wrong? 500% wrong?

Might be the result of test procedures that don't really mimic real life use? Depending on how I shoot, I seem to be getting vastly different number of shots on my D500, for example. High-speed continuous shooting seems to stress the battery less than just walking around taking the occasional shot - the difference can be 4x or even more.

[Dieter Schaefer]

Silent shutter is the main capability I'm interested in but if the read time is the typical 1/15s then I may not be willing to spend the money.

from dpreview:

The camera's mirrorless design makes it easy to offer a fully silent electronic shutter mode. With our preliminary findings, we estimate the readout speed of this sensor at roughly 1/15 sec: a rate comparable with the Sony a7R III. It can be used with burst shooting but is likely to mean compression or elongation of moving subjects or rolling shutter artifacts while panning.

[ilkka_nissila]

Might be the result of test procedures that don't really mimic real life use? Depending on how I shoot, I seem to be getting vastly different number of shots on my D500, for example. High-speed continuous shooting seems to stress the battery less than just walking around taking the occasional shot - the difference can be 4x or even more.

 

Using the D850 I get quite close to the CIPA rated 1800 images on an EN-EL15a battery.

 

However, perhaps there is something in the CIPA procedure that makes the Z7 look bad in testing but better in real life? EVF certainly can consume power.

[Two23]

At those prices, why wouldn't someone just buy a Leica? I am hoping this flushes a fair number of used D850 on the market next year.

 

 

Kent in SD

[brian_niemi1]

• Watching the presentation last night, to me it seemed they are putting more emphasis on video capabilities.
  
• With the D850 barely one year old, I found it interesting that the mirrorless pair have an upgraded image processor, XSPEED 6.
  
• The 5 stop VR sounds impressive.
  
• With the backlog issues of the D850 I wonder if production will be able to meet demand. I guess that depends on the demand.
  

[BeBu Lamar]

They are competent but not sufficient to beat the Sony by specs alone. There must be some other qualities in order to do that and we don't know them yet. They seem to be great competitors to Nikon DSLR's.

[BeBu Lamar]

I like the fact that the 2 cameras look the same. They do look nice.

[Moving On]

Sucked into the vortex of the techno industrial complex.....

;)

Perpetual purchasers of the obsolete......

 

I want to be buried out by the mailbox with my old Pentax.

[Dieter Schaefer]

There must be some other qualities in order to do that and we don't know them yet.

They AF with Nikon lenses - the third party solutions available for that purpose on Sony cameras aren't very convincing.

[BeBu Lamar]

They AF with Nikon lenses - the third party solutions available for that purpose on Sony cameras aren't very convincing.

I do think that the adapter would function well with all F mount lenses with built in motor. Without built in motor then it's full manual but that's OK too.

[Ed_Ingold]

In the US, the Z7 is $3399.95, body only. That is $100 more than the D850.

Correct, based on follow-up information. I watched the video last night, which estimated the price at 440,000 yen, with taxes, which translates to $3960.

 

The amazing lens lineup for the Z is comparable to the kit lenses which form the baseline for Sony. Having room for only a single card flies in the face of customer demands. An XQD card to boot. Fortunately someone took over their manufacture after Lexar bowed out.

 

There is no compelling reason to switch from Sony. However the Nikon badge and price points will probably attract newbies and dedicated Nikon users. It is clear that the Z developers worked. under the heavy hand of the DSLR faction at Nikon, with a de facto "non-compete" agreement.

 

The Z7 has two programmable buttons near the lens mount, on the right, whereas the Z6 does not. Battery capacity is close to that of the Sony (84%), but don't expect it to hold up as well as in the D850. MILC's have a lot more things to draw power than a DSLR. Sony managed to reduce the power demand in the v3 cameras to 40% that in the v2 versions, while more than doubling the battery capacity. It is not unusual to get 800-1000 shots and all-day use, in single-frame mode. In high speed mode, the number can exceed 6000. The Nikon will probably have better capacity than the pre-release estimates.

[Hector Javkin]

I understand that a battery grip will be offered, and wonder if it might include a second memory card slot. That will make the added slot look like an afterthought, but would still be welcome.

[mike_halliwell]

Ed, yes it does!

 

Nikon Z 6 | Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera

 

They, or someone else, could make a screwdrive AF adapter, you just need to understand the comms. language.

 

Errr, no pop-up flash?

Edited August 23, 2018 by mike_halliwell

[ShunCheung]

I understand that a battery grip will be offered, and wonder if it might include a second memory card slot. That will make the added slot look like an afterthought, but would still be welcome.

Having only one memory card slot is a very obvious feature for the Z6 and Z7, and at least IMO, that is a major disadvantage of those camera. The fact that one card slot is XQD makes it a bit better since XQD is very reliable, but any memory card could fail at some point. I am quite sure that Nikon engineers and marketing have carefully considered the pro and cons about not including a second, perhaps SD slot, as the D850 and D500 do. I just don't quite agree with their decision.

 

I kind of doubt that the D6 and D7 have interface connections at the bottom of the cameras to send image data back and forth to the up-coming grip. If they are planning a second card slot in the grip, I would imagine Nikon would have already mentioned it. It looks like the grip will only supply space for a second EN-EL15(b) battery and perhaps shutter release and dials for the vertical orientation. The size of the camera limits the size of the grip such that there is no room for the larger EN-EL18(abc) battery, but an SD slot should have been possible.

[joseph_smith3]

Is there any information that describes the buffer size/capabilities for both the Z 7 and the Z6 ay maximum frames per second or various frames per second? Is the Z6 designed for action shooting vs the Z7?

[ShunCheung]

Perhaps I am reading too much, literally between the lines, into this road map, but for 2018, there are three green lines for the three lenses in the initial announcement. For 2019, it looks like there will be up to 6 new lenses (red). For 2020, there are also 6 blue lines, but only 3 lenses listed and the other 3 blue line left blank. For 2021, there are 8 blank gray lines.

 

I wonder whether Nikon has plans for up to 6 new mirrorless lenses in 2020. The three not yet listed could include DX lenses for future DX mirrorless bodies, but Nikon doesn't want to show their hands for DX bodies.

 

Since I don't seen any 400mm/f2.8 Z mount lens listed, I have the feeling that Nikon's next flagship sports camera will continue to be a DSLR. I would expect a D6 in late 2019 or early 2020 ready for the 2020 Tokyo summer Olympics. Since it will be in Japan, I am sure the likes of Canon, Sony, and Nikon will use that occasion to showcase their new cameras.

 

[rossb]

They listed in the short video portion of the presentation that the camera will offer 4K at 30fps and 1080 at 120fps. To me it seems like in 1080 there would be choices that you could make such as 24,30 or 60. Maybe they just listed the high end and skipped the rest. Also on another point if the camera has poor battery life they are going to offer a power grip. Also I saw somewhere that it will accept USB charging and wonder if you could power the camera from a USB brick while shooting. Anyway it looks like a nice camera and a great introduction for Nikon. They will only get better at least for the Pro line gear. The single card slot is not going to be popular among the high end camera customers as the lack of a flippy screen for vloggers/you-tubers.