Dieter Schaefer Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Quite often, leveling the camera does not result in a level horizon: Why Leveling the Horizon Isn’t Easy - Photography Life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 In his later photographs, the influential constructivist photographer Rodchenko often purposely tilted the horizon - e.g., Dynamo Soccer Club, Red Square It's not the angle, but why it is done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 . . . will motivate said person to figure out how the hell all the nessy's got there to begin with . . . Making a word plural doesn't require this kind of punctuation. One man's annoying dust mark is another man's roving apostrophe. We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Quite often, leveling the camera does not result in a level horizon: Why Leveling the Horizon Isn’t Easy - Photography Life That has been a photo gremlin to me for many years. One of the worst cases is with trees that my eye always tries to make vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supriyo Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 OMG! The crap keeps coming! Here's another gripe I have I just saw right now. Some folks think taking pictures of posts is an interesting subject to photograph. What would make someone think while out and about looking for a subject to shoot..."Hey! There's a post! I have to photograph it!" I predict I'm going to get a massive reduction in "Likes" in the No Words forum from those who read this. I don't care! I have to vent! Besides I'm laughing my a$$ off. This one's dedicated to Tim :D. My theory about tilted horizons is, either go overboard, or don't. Of course like most formulae for aesthetics, this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Purposefully tilted horizons can work at times depending on context, but subtle tilts are plain annoying unless the photographer intended to impart a specific mood (e.g. uneasiness) to the viewer with it. I have seen plenty of images from renowned photographers where deliberately (in some cases subtly) tilted horizons do work. This one from Robert Adams for example, or this one by John Gossage. Here's an example of overly tilted horizon to impart drama: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supriyo Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Hmm... bollards are okay... Sink drains, depends on whether they're clogged up or not... http://bayouline.com/o2.gif How about storm drains? care for a dip, Mr Ape! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellinder Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I have learned through getting occasional harsh, but helpful, critiques about the horizon not being level. Photography clearly has a set of rules, i.e., the rule of thirds. My own feeling about rules of any kind is that they are defeasible; if they don't allow the occasional exception, they become so strict so as to render them meaningless, totally rigid, unenforceable, etc. (depending on the context). And I have favorite quip about rules, thanks to the film 'Pirates of the Caribbean." “The code is more what you’d call ‘guidelines’ than actual rules.” Finally, a confession - - - With landscapes especially, I try to make sure the horizon is level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Peri Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 How about storm drains? care for a dip, Mr Ape! Hmm... I'm a Ms. Ape... http://bayouline.com/o2.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supriyo Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Hmm... I'm a Ms. Ape... http://bayouline.com/o2.gif Oh! My mistake. Your ape is the second most iconic character after Mickey Mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Peri Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Your ape is the second most iconic character after Mickey Mouse. Hmm... why, thank you... But some people here don't like lovable l'il me... go figure... http://bayouline.com/o2.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 My theory about tilted horizons is, either go overboard, or don't. Of course like most formulae for aesthetics, this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Purposefully tilted horizons can work at times depending on context, but subtle tilts are plain annoying unless the photographer intended to impart a specific mood (e.g. uneasiness) to the viewer with it. I have seen plenty of images from renowned photographers where deliberately (in some cases subtly) tilted horizons do work. This one from Robert Adams for example, or this one by John Gossage. Here's an example of overly tilted horizon to impart drama: Supriyo, I agree with most that statement but that second shot of the girl running toward the water I couldn't look at more than a couple of seconds without getting irritated and annoyed and a bit queezy so any aesthetic intent was lost on me. This subject is about conveying something about the intelligence and unique viewpoint of the photographer and the way they capture and present the image. With landscapes most of that is communicated by noting the effort behind getting to the location, waiting for the light and composing and any post processing decisions made in bringing out certain colors and tonality especially in sunsets. There has to be some indication a certain amount of craft was applied other than seeing it as just another quick snap. Digital makes this a whole lot easier. So when I come across landscapes that fires on all pistons in this regard and the photographer just flat out not fix the slanted horizon, it pretty much makes them come across as someone who just doesn't care. Seascapes with off angle horizons that clearly show they were taken on a tipping boat on the water are obvious quick snaps with little or no thought put behind communicating a viewpoint. I look at those for about as long as it takes to point and shoot and go to the next image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norma Desmond Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Supriyo, the shot of the girl running toward the water is great. The Hitchcockian angle helps convey the energy of the moment and really draws me in. 2 We didn't need dialogue. We had faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Vongries Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Supriyo, the shot of the girl running toward the water is great. Completely agree! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) “This subject is about conveying something about the intelligence and unique viewpoint of the photographer and the way they capture and present the image.” Some issues are more indicative of the lack of intellect on the part of the critic, than the photographer. The angled photo does not drive my mind to little fits. I find it an interesting take on how a romping child sees the world in moments of crazy fun..... Edited June 11, 2018 by Moving On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supriyo Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) Supriyo, I agree with most that statement but that second shot of the girl running toward the water I couldn't look at more than a couple of seconds without getting irritated and annoyed and a bit queezy so any aesthetic intent was lost on me. This subject is about conveying something about the intelligence and unique viewpoint of the photographer and the way they capture and present the image. With landscapes most of that is communicated by noting the effort behind getting to the location, waiting for the light and composing and any post processing decisions made in bringing out certain colors and tonality especially in sunsets. There has to be some indication a certain amount of craft was applied other than seeing it as just another quick snap. Digital makes this a whole lot easier. So when I come across landscapes that fires on all pistons in this regard and the photographer just flat out not fix the slanted horizon, it pretty much makes them come across as someone who just doesn't care. Seascapes with off angle horizons that clearly show they were taken on a tipping boat on the water are obvious quick snaps with little or no thought put behind communicating a viewpoint. I look at those for about as long as it takes to point and shoot and go to the next image. Supriyo, the shot of the girl running toward the water is great. The Hitchcockian angle helps convey the energy of the moment and really draws me in. Tim, you and Fred have completely contrasting viewpoints regarding the girl's image, and although I side here with Fred about my impression of it (I shot the oblique angle to portray eccentricity, freedom and energy), your viewpoint is valid as well. Is there any shot with oblique horizon by you or other photographers that you truly appreciate, which you would like to refer to? It may also be that, you don't appreciate slant horizons in photos at all which I can respect too. I gave two other examples (by John Gossage and Robert Adams) which show usage of slant horizons in landscape pictures. These photos are not intended to show the beauty of landscapes (or seascapes), but (IMO) to experiment with other emotions that landscapes can project on viewer's minds, like mystery and uneasiness. Of course, if these photos are approached with the notion of traditional beautiful landscapes, they would be deemed as complete failures. I agree with you, that a photo that appears to be shot at a popular location or a popular time (e.g. sunset), intending to capture some aesthetic beauty, but with a disturbingly slant horizon would appear as carelessness or mistake. In certain cases, such slant photos may still make sense with the photographer's background or the context of the work in mind, like in the case of FSA photos from the punched negatives. Referring to your last example, slant horizons from moving boats can portray nervousness, or sea sickness, but the line between sloppiness and creating a mood has to be treaded carefully. TV shows like Deadliest Catch on Discovery use slant horizons a lot to create anxiety in a stormy sea for example. Correction: Both examples are by John Gossage. The first one incidentally is from a book called 'A Dozen Failures'. It was discussed some months back in our Philosophy forum by some crazy people who I miss :) Edited June 11, 2018 by Supriyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Vongries Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 There is a natural tendency to tilt the camera downward to the outside of the eye at the viewfinder. It is something we must all fight. Secondly, not all landscapes ir city scape have a natural horizon. You can look for vertical lines, but then deal with convergence. The horizontal line of a stage and vertical lines of the backdrop will not be complimentary if you shoot off-center. You have to pick one or the other, or distort the image in post. Nikon and Sony cameras, for example, have an artificial horizon which is usually close enough. In the end, a watery horizon must be level, and can (should) be corrected in post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 The guy who, when invited to your house for a meal, rearranges everything on the counter and adjusts all the picture frames. I always make it a point to seat him in the special chair with one leg slightly shorter than the other three. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supriyo Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 [ATTACH=full]1249720[/ATTACH] Sandy, my eyes immediately go to the silhouetted man with pointed ears at the bottom. The converging lines from the buildings place the focus on this figure and the slant horizon provides the mystery novel context. He seems to be completely out of place in an otherwise familiar street environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I find the misaligned vapor trails amateurishly maddening ! LMAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Not to denigrate anyone's point of view. But I'd rather react to a photograph when I see it for how it moves me. I don't base what I like or not on some arbitrary rule based formula that I'm seeing here from some. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) Tim, you and Fred have completely contrasting viewpoints regarding the girl's image, and although I side here with Fred about my impression of it (I shot the oblique angle to portray eccentricity, freedom and energy), your viewpoint is valid as well. Is there any shot with oblique horizon by you or other photographers that you truly appreciate, which you would like to refer to? It may also be that, you don't appreciate slant horizons in photos at all which I can respect too. I gave two other examples (by John Gossage and Robert Adams) which show usage of slant horizons in landscape pictures. These photos are not intended to show the beauty of landscapes (or seascapes), but (IMO) to experiment with other emotions that landscapes can project on viewer's minds, like mystery and uneasiness. Of course, if these photos are approached with the notion of traditional beautiful landscapes, they would be deemed as complete failures. Sorry, Supriyo, I didn't know that image of the girl and slanted horizon was yours so I hope you'll excuse my being so harsh. Been reading all the comments and I must've missed you mentioning it. Obviously I didn't get your intended impression of the girl image because the slant to me is way too pronounced and disorienting to the point of distraction. The centered subject draws focus as coming across too rigid and mechanical far from the look of exuberance, freedom and energy (think starburst pattern). As a former cartoonist I usually conveyed that feeling placing a human figure moving at a slightly off angle forming a wedge like composition from left to right as if the girl is jumping out of the frame like someone shot out of cannon. Straight on shots at severe oblique angles come across as mistakes. It's getting more difficult to find photos in a google search that allows a simple URL link that just shows the photo instead of the entire bloated web page. But here are some examples of off angle shots of kids jumping into the water from land or dock I think conveys eccentricity, freedom and energy... https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-kids-jumping-off-dock-beautiful-mountain-lake-little-boy-little-girl-having-fun-summer-vacation-image66494866 Family | Magnificent 7 Those shots can still be taken from behind as in yours and keep the off angle wedge shaped composition. Edited June 12, 2018 by Tim_Lookingbill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 Sandy's image above is a good example of the photographer intentionally tilting the camera to express the claustrophobic feeling of living in a big crowded city. But I wouldn't have seen the tilting as intentional if the off angle effect was created more from wide angle focal length distortion and less from just tilting the camera. At least more of the buildings and traffic could fit in the frame to amplify the crowded feel. It's a matter of degree until it becomes too much and begins to draw attention to itself usually making it a very subjective call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lookingbill Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 Not to denigrate anyone's point of view. But I'd rather react to a photograph when I see it for how it moves me. I don't base what I like or not on some arbitrary rule based formula that I'm seeing here from some. You're moved by what you see just like everyone else. No one said slanted compositions are a rule breaker. There's no rules in image making. You either communicate an idea effectively or you distract, redirect, confuse or disorient the viewer. But if that is the intent then it needs to be made obvious. Where did you read here there was a rule about slanted or off angled compositions? When someone begins to tell the listener a story about the little old lady who lived in a shoe and starts off with how to make a shoe and the craft of shoe making, whose fault is that if the listener just walks away? It's not the listener's fault for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moving On Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) “Where did you read here there was a rule about slanted or off angled compositions” ................................................. “I'm having a moment where I just have to vent just coming out of the No Words forum. I keep seeing just gorgeous landscapes mainly beach and sky scenes, some with sunsets. And the freakin' horizon where sea meets sky is on an angle. HAAAAAA! I just want to scream! It would be no problem to fix this even if it crops some elements out. What is it with people who take these nice looking photos and don't fix this? Am I the only one that's bothered by this? I don't even get the opportunity to go to some of these exotic places so there's no excuse to get at least one of the shots of what amounts to a still, no movement scene and get the horizon lined up or at least fix it in post.” After "Liking" these types of images which I'm frustrated after doing so, (the impetus behind posting this thread) I now wish we had a "Shameful" button. Or maybe prevention on the upload would be more effective where a script could detect the image is crooked within the frame and an admonishment dialog box flashes on the screen belittling the poster and cancels the upload on reasons of violating photography common sense. Edited June 12, 2018 by Moving On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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