Using lens aperture ring with D300

[Sanford]

After a few hour out this morning, I have to agree, aperture control is best left to the front control dial. In old Nikkors, the indexing fork served as a visual reminder of where the aperture was set, like the Leica focusing knob lets you know by feel where you are focused. This lens doesn't have a fork. Also, while I am using primarily manual mode, the D300 can't easily be shifted to any auto mode. You have to go through the whole process again.

[Andrew Garrard]

Agreed, Sanford. My biggest concern with the Nikon mechanical aperture ring system is that it doesn't scale to hand-held long lenses (unless your solution to changing the aperture is not to change the aperture, which I gather is one workaround for the Df kludge) because you don't tend to have a hand near the aperture ring. That said, you can add a fork to a lot of lenses, though since it's at the top it may not be where you can feel it.

[Rick Helmke]

I actually disagree on this one Sanford. I spent half an hour or so this morning first with a D300S and that custom setting worked perfectly so I checked all my others except the D4 and it was a simple matter to set up the aperture ring use. I've never gotten much into the custom settings and discovered there is a lot there. My preference for the aperture ring goes back to when everything worked that way and I'm just accustomed to it. I find myself always turning the wrong command dial to change exposure settings on the newer cameras. This morning I changed the D1-X, D200, 300 and 800. The D10 won't work since it has no AI tab. Oh well, I wonder though what will happen when I put my only G lens, a 24-120, on any of these? Will I not have aperture control or will it default to the command dial?

 

Rick H.

[ben_hutcherson]

Will I not have aperture control or will it default to the command dial?

 

If there's no aperture ring, it defaults to the command dial.

[Andrew Garrard]

Aperture control is definitely one of those "what you're used to" things - and if all of your lenses are smallish primes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I use the front dial on my RX100, and I've had no problem using the aperture ring to change aperture on my Pentax 645 or on a Bessa R. But I can't easily get at 1/3 stops that way, none of those options has a variable-aperture zoom, and I don't have anything as large as, say, my 300mm f/4 AF-S (my largest non-G lens now I've got rid of the 500 f/4) on any of them. There are good ergonomic reasons that Nikon changed the aperture interaction style, but the wonder of electronics is that we still have the old option available (with non-G lenses) if someone prefers it.

 

For what it's worth, I recently did quite a bit of experimentation with lens-controlled apertures, because I did some test shooting with my tilt-shift lenses - both of which are fully mechanical - and tested a Samyang 24mm T/S (likewise). Until my spare cash stretches to a 19mm Nikkor (and it's not top of my list), any tilt-shift shooting I do is still going to be working this way. Although they don't interact with the aperture follower tab, so the apertures in question aren't being controlled at the mount end.

[steve_g2]

Back when I had a

D7100 I found that it had two different settings related to aperture control for lenses with an aperture ring. Four combinations that gave me fits trying to get the manual lens to work (meter and report aperture accurately) and then to restore proper camera light meter operation for more modern lenses.

 

The D750 and others with just one menu item makes more sense. And no matter which setting you choose, it overrides it for the old / manual aperture lenses when they are mounted.

 

Stating the obvious and repeating others comments above: The menu item is to give you an option with computer chip lenses that have an aperture ring (like a 50 1.8D).

[ShunCheung]

I waited a full year before I bought my F5, but as soon as I got one in December 1997, I quickly got used to using the sub-command dial to control the aperture. At the time I already had an N8008 for a few years so that I was familiar with using dials. In fact, a few months after getting the F5, I realized that I couldn't/didn't want to use my F4 any more. A bit later, I added an F100 as my second body as it has similar controls as the F5 so that my two bodies were consistent.

 

However, on most Nikon DSLRs, I do go through the Custom Settings to get familiar with them.

[Andrew Garrard]

Out of interest, Steve, what's the option on the D7100 that's not f5 (the custom dial)? Other than custom information for non-CPU lenses, of course.

[ShunCheung]

On the D7100, it is f5. The options for f5 are pretty much the same as those on other Nikon DSLRs (although some of the newer ones have additional options).

 

[Andrew Garrard]

Now I'm confused by Shun as well. :-) Shun - by "additional options", are you talking about the "sub-dial frame advance" option on the D850 (et al.) for skipping frames, or do some other Nikons have other interesting options?

 

I'm assuming Steve had another option in mind in addition to f5, but I'm not sure what it would be. Unless he didn't mean the D7100 - I've not checked through all the camera manuals I have downloaded.

[ShunCheung]

Andrew, you are not confused. Take out your new D850 and check the options for customized command dials.

[Andrew Garrard]

I'm always confused, Shun. I'm a few miles from my camera at the moment, but I have the menu guide in front of me. I think "sub dial frame advance" seemed to be the only difference from what you posted above - I'm just curious whether there was anything else.

[CvhKaar]

There are good ergonomic reasons that Nikon changed the aperture interaction style, but the wonder of electronics is that we still have the old option available (with non-G lenses) if someone prefers it.

.

Sadly , for ppl who prefere aperture ring control, the choices are made by Nikon on current lenses…

Whenever i can choosse i will go for "aperture ring control" lenses making lhem more versatile becausse they are usable on bellows and other f-mount "devices"without going through much trouble, not limited to but also icluding older nikon camera's by offering fully manual control.

[BeBu Lamar]

When I bought the F5, although I think all of its controls are very logical (I read the manual before buying it). In real use the wheels are slow to use. I tend to over shoot and then had to turn back.

[Andrew Garrard]

True, C.P.M. G lenses are nothing but a cost cutting measure, and there are reasons to keep the aperture ring even if aperture is most commonly set from the camera. E aperture is different, but I'm not aware of Nikon having produced accessories such as the extension rings with electronic connections that EF lenses can use.

 

I also sometimes miss when spinning the dials - I'm not sure that every click registers completely reliably. (My car's audio volume control is similar, and occasionally goes the wrong way.) It's a trade off I'll take for being able to change settings in 1/3 stop increments quickly while keeping my finger on the shutter.

[BeBu Lamar]

Now that although I don't like mirrorless camera I hope that Nikon new mirrorless would have the aperture ring on the lens and has 1/3 stop click.

[JDMvW]

Nowadays, I just keep the more complicated user manuals in pdf form on my phone. Don't need it very often, but when you do need it, it's a lifesaver.

[Andrew Garrard]

Now that although I don't like mirrorless camera I hope that Nikon new mirrorless would have the aperture ring on the lens and has 1/3 stop click.

 

I think on the lens ought to be possible. It would have to be "fly by wire" to support the variations of 1, 1/2 and 1/3 stop preferences that different people have, but then it seems likely that E aperture was a step towards mirrorless anyway, so I'm not expecting a mechanical connection. You could put a configurable ring on every lens (like the ring around the lens on the RX100 and some Canons), although between zoom and focus, I'm not sure I like the ergonomics of the hand possibly holding the weight of the system having three things to do. Plus it adds cost and complexity, and possibly reduces weatherproofing.

 

I'd feel more confident in Nikon's ability to design lens ring ergonomics if I'd not just picked up the new 70-200. You know how we all store the hood reversed on the lens so it fits in a bag but we still have it available? And you know how we don't always bother to deploy the hood when we're in a hurry and we're not in an environment where the lens is likely to flare significantly? So it's useful to be able to turn the zoom ring when the hood is reversed on the lens? Because apparently Nikon don't know that.

 

What I don't think will work is putting the aperture ring around the lens mount, on the camera - that would be cheaper, but is basically useless with longer lenses. Well, it WOULD work, but only if the mirrorless system didn't have any long lenses - which, to be fair, dpreview has just suggested as a strategy (compete with Fuji and Leica on short lenses, leave telephoto lenses to dSLRs).

 

For what it's worth, I have no objection to the option of changing the aperture with something on the lens. I do object to that being the only option - it's not rare for me to have my left hand on a monopod (with a long lens) or holding a flash while the right hand supports the camera (for a short lens), so not being able to change the aperture right-handed would be a negative for me.

[BeBu Lamar]

No putting the aperture ring on the lens mount has the bigger problem than you thought. Lenses have different range of aperture how do you label such a ring? So it has to be on the lens. Also I don't think it's possible to change the click stop from full stop to 1/2 and 1/3. I would want it simply in 1/3 stop only because everything else is adjustable in 1/3 (ISO and shutter speed).

[Andrew Garrard]

But on a modern Nikon dSLR, you can choose whether to adjust shutter speed and ISO, as well as aperture, in whole, half or third stops. I use 1/3, but I assume others prefer speed over accuracy.

 

You lost me at labelling the ring. You wanted the ring to have fixed locations physically labelled? Why? That doesn't even work properly with s variable-aperture zoom, I believe (not that I've ever owned a variable-aperture zoom that wasn't "G").

[ben_hutcherson]

That doesn't even work properly with s variable-aperture zoom, I believe (not that I've ever owned a variable-aperture zoom that wasn't "G").

 

I have a 70-210mm f/4-5.6D zoom in my hands(a nice and surprisingly good push-pull type zoom, probably the 90s equivalent of the ubiquitous 55-200).

 

As one extends the lens, one finds 70mm marked in green and 210mm marked in yellow. There are two index marks above the aperture ring-one is green, the other yellow, and they are 1 stop apart. I think you can probably read between the lines as to how that works. Still, it only works at the two extremes, although a computerized body will read the aperture setting correctly regardless of where the zoom is set.

 

Also, it's worth mentioning that this particular lens is from a time where a good many bodies still needed an aperture ring for A and M modes. The much maligned N70 that I have this lens mounted on(probably roughly a D7500/D610 equivalent now) is one such body, as was the advanced amateur N90(s).

[Andrew Garrard]

Thanks, Ben - I vaguely remember looking into how variable aperture worked with a ring, but I'd honestly forgotten.

 

I've got to say the approach feels more practical with a single stop difference (4-5.6) than when it's larger (say 3.5-6.3) with more steps in the middle. The restriction of the mechanical aperture ring to whole stops (except at the fast end) helps, I guess.

 

Still, it's not as nicely handled as when the aperture is set from the body. I guess Nikon could just refrain from variable aperture zooms. :-)

[BeBu Lamar]

But on a modern Nikon dSLR, you can choose whether to adjust shutter speed and ISO, as well as aperture, in whole, half or third stops. I use 1/3, but I assume others prefer speed over accuracy.

 

You lost me at labelling the ring. You wanted the ring to have fixed locations physically labelled? Why? That doesn't even work properly with s variable-aperture zoom, I believe (not that I've ever owned a variable-aperture zoom that wasn't "G").

Yup I want a fix physical ring. The label on the ring not on the display only. Don't make variable aperture lenses. In fact in the old days (70's) variable aperture lenses were not popular.

For a new system, starting from scratch and offer only the good stuff.

[Andrew Garrard]

You sound as though you agree with dpreview, BeBu: make a mirrorless system to compete with Fuji (in the style of Leica) that complements rather than replaces the dSLRs. I guess it's an option!

[ben_hutcherson]

Thanks, Ben - I vaguely remember looking into how variable aperture worked with a ring, but I'd honestly forgotten.

 

I've got to say the approach feels more practical with a single stop difference (4-5.6) than when it's larger (say 3.5-6.3) with more steps in the middle. The restriction of the mechanical aperture ring to whole stops (except at the fast end) helps, I guess.

 

Still, it's not as nicely handled as when the aperture is set from the body. I guess Nikon could just refrain from variable aperture zooms. :-)

 

Yes, truthfully I guess it's handled about as gracefully as it could be. I never remember my Canon FD mount zooms indicating the actual aperture-the ring was only marked for maximum. I don't know about variable aperture zooms on EOS, but I know my 100mm Macro would hold a constant(indicated) 2.8 even at 1:1, while my 105mm Micro reflects the actual aperture as it focuses closer. The variable aperture zooms do the same-even playing with the F70 last night, with the camera in aperture priority and set wide open, the aperture on the top LCD jumped in 1/3 stop increments as I zoomed the lens.

 

One nice thing about the Nikon system-both for variable aperture zoom and for micros-is that if you're controlling the aperture from the camera, it's held at the constant(real) aperture as focus changes. If I'm using my studio strobes, for example, and meter(or chimp) f/22 focused far enough out that the maximum aperture is still effective f/2.8 and then set f/29, it will hold that value(effective value) regardless of where it's focused.