Bicycle and Car (symbols)

[Julie H]

Stages of life (or the evolution of transport ... ):

 

Thomas Hoepker Boys in the rain

 

All of the symbols in this next one — 'home,' 'door,' and path/road,' 'bicycle' — are between the photographer and the viewer. The kid has no clue what the heck is going on and he's not going down that path on the bicycle anytime soon. But I'm not sure the dog isn't in on the conversation.

 

by August Sander

 

.

 

It's the mood of the image

 

It's whatever the good photographer/artist crafts it to mean. Phil 1) knows the connotations of what he's using, and 2) uses it accordingly. He's not pointing and saying "Hey, lookit that!", and leaving it up to the viewer to figure out what the heck he's lookit-ing at, he's making a picture.

[Norma Desmond]

Casablanca (bin there, done that, puffs out chest) ends at an airport(no way have i bin there).

Doesn't that final scene begin with their car pulling up to the airport in the fog? [Agree with you about the car not being much of a defining noir element in Phil's photo.]

Guns, dames, hats and wisecracks. you can't have a film noir without them, can you?*

Always felt to me like Robert Walker played the dame in Strangers on a Train and John Dahl did in Rope, though I'm sorry but no man could ever take the place of Gloria Grahame in The Big Heat. Also see Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter and Charles Boyer in Gaslight as so-called homme fatales.

 

I do it myself, motivated by low key black and white and stylish lighting, but hesitate when associating photos with film noir. The melodrama, cynicism, and smoldering sexuality that help define classic film noir are often absent in photos referred to as being of that genre. Wonder if there's a better term with which to refer to those photos.

[Norma Desmond]

I think the texture and energy of the smears in Phil's photo are more noirish, almost providing a sense of paranoia, than the car. But I don't think the smears are "symbols" of paranoia or noir. Also, agree with Phil that cars are often used effectively as an element in noir, though not necessarily symbolically.

 

My sense is that all these threads, as good as the discussions may be at times, have often conflated "symbol" and "element."

[Norma Desmond]

Well, it's all the elements (or a single element) of a picture that can contribute to the picture's symbology.

Very true.

 

That doesn't mean it's helpful to conflate symbol with element. And it doesn't mean it's helpful to post a photo which contains an element being discussed as a symbol when that element is not acting as a symbol in the photo being posted.

[Norman 202]

Norman, here's an article of the presence and symbology of cars in film noir:

great link Phil, thanks.

[Norma Desmond]

Phil, as your last statement suggests, there's a difference between all elements of a picture potentially contributing to "symbology,"--or we might more simply say "symbolism"--and an element which so contributes being erroneously referred to or mistakenly posted as an example of a symbol itself.

[Norma Desmond]

I read Peirce back in college, liked it then, but that was enough. I'll stick with photos for now. ;-)

[Julie H]

First time I saw this movie, I was in my early 20's.

 

Bicycle Thieves - Wikipedia

 

 

The photo I linked earlier:

 

Paul Strand, The Family View II, Luzzara, Italy, 1953

 

... was made for Strand's book Un Paese, which he made with the Italian screenwriter of The Bicycle Thieves, Cesare Zavattini . I've been debating whether it's worth the time and effort to scan some of the pictures from the book, in which bicycles are everywhere.

[Supriyo]

The photo I linked earlier:

 

 

 

... was made for Strand's book Un Paese, which he made with the Italian screenwriter of The Bicycle Thieves, Cesare Zavattini . I've been debating whether it's worth the time and effort to scan some of the pictures from the book, in which bicycles are everywhere.

 

Julie, thank you! That was good information. In the linked photo, besides the bicycle, what I notice are the gazes of the different people that are directed in different directions in harmony (well thought deliberate poses). The bike feels like an extended appendage of the person leaning against it. It fits in nicely as part of the family. I am also curious about the tiny artifacts (bottles and cans) on the top of the main entryway. I know, some families in India do that to wade off bad spirits and stuff.

[Julie H]

Supriyo, that family had a tough time of it. Zavattini, who wrote the book's text, had the person(s) in each picture write their own caption, sometimes extended. Here's part of what the mother in that picture wrote for that picture:

 

"I married at eighteen and had fifteen children, four of whom died young. In '21 my husband Lusetti was beaten, then he was beaten again in 1926. I never knew the reason for this, I only know that this is what caused his death. In '33 my husband died on Christmas Eve, leaving me in misery with eight sons and three daughters. During the war my dear sons served in Italy, France, Greece, Germany, Africa, and England. ... " She gives details of what happened in the war, ending with: "In 1945 they asked me if I wanted revenge, but I didn't."

 

My favorite bicycle picture from the book is this one:

 

Paul Strand, Luzzara bicycle

 

There are a lot of things that I like about that picture but an odd one is that the bicycle reminds me of a horse in a stable. I doubt the picture would be the favorite of most people: I love it. What's odd about most of the pictures-with-bicycles in the book is that they show really old guys in suits and ties, holding their old bicycles as if it's the most normal thing for guys in suits and ties (and old-guy hats) to be riding bicycles. There is not one car in the whole book, though the streets seem to be paved.

 

[i hadn't noticed the artifacts above the door that you point out. They [i]are [/i]interesting.]

[Norman 202]

There are a lot of things that I like about that picture but an odd one is that the bicycle reminds me of a horse in a stable

weird, i always imagine a horse facing out of the stable.

[Norman 202]

weird, i always imagine a horse facing out of the stable.

 

 

LMGTFY

 

 

OMGIFW

[ben_hutcherson]

My little sister and I would regularly feel the need to go 100 mph on our way to school. The only way we could do it was to floor it for the entire ten mile segment of 4 lane highway that was on our route. As we went down the exit ramp, that little down slope would just put us over the top. That car's tiny four-cylinder engine was most definitely not "muscle" car material. At high speeds it sounded like an enraged mosquito.

 

My little soft-top running flat out has done 105, top up, on level ground. With stock sized tires and no overdrive, that is 5600 rpms-a shade above the red line. At that point, a couple of things happen-the old tractor engine with siamesed intake and exhaust ports starts to run out of ability to "breath" and the weak old valve springs start to float.

 

Not too long ago, I did a mild refresh/upgrade with a rebuilt cylinder head that also raised the compression ratio and has larger intake valves. I'm still getting things "settled" so haven't done an extended interstate run. With new valve springs, being able to "breath" better, and having the combustion chambers actually completely seal I might get a few more MPH out of it.

 

Granted this is with twin SU carburetors and the factory "double Y" exhaust manifold-the most free breathing factory set-up. '72-74 US models with low compression engines lost some. Post-75 cars with a single Z-S carburetor on an absolutely terrible combined intake an exhaust manifold really lost a lot. Those cars are lucky to hit 90. The GTs are more aerodynamic and can usually squeeze out a few more mph, but then we didn't get GTs in the US after the 1974 1/2 M/Y. I looked at and nearly bought a 1974 1/2 GT about a year ago-there were 1200 and some odd of these imported, and they are the only GTs in the US with rubber bumpers(making them firmly in the "who cares?" category). Interestingly enough, just putting plastic shields over the headlights("Sebring covers") is supposed to be good for about the same.

 

Granted we're talking speeds where the things get downright scary. Mine is happy to cruise all day at 70-80. I'm hoping to install an overdrive transmission this fall that will at least knock down the interstate rpms.

 

There again, though, MGs aren't FAST cars-they're meant for twisty roads and not winning drag races. I did some work to increase my engine power(I'm not done yet) to get more low-end power for pulling out of curves. The MGA that I'm doing a frame-off restoration of will get a similar power plant. Fortunately, at 2000lbs, it doesn't take a huge amount of grunt to get these cars moving. The stock MGA gearing is also a bit more aggressive than the MGB to compensate for the fairly anemic 70hp engine from the factory-when all is said and done it might get an MGB rear axle for that reason.

[Supriyo]

Phil, seems like you had a very good experience. Way to spend the day!

 

To me, the first photo feels like, someone placed the truck next to John Gossage's pond that he photographed, but shows less ambience and more of the subject than Gossage did in his work. I followed the thread on aspect ratios. It's interesting how the square aspect reflects the shape of the dark truck frame within it, and works so well with the composition.

 

The second photo also shows a juxtaposition of nature vs man made mess, with more of the mess as if nature is pushed to a corner. I feel differently here compared to the first photo where the abandoned truck seemed more at home with nature. The intact car in the mid ground seems to be helplessly propped up on a pile of body parts, waiting for its fate. My impressions of course can change if I see the photos up close.

[Julie H]

I should have thanked you, Phil, for posting these Evans photos, but I was too jealous.

 

Evans really got into debris/trash of all kinds in his later years. Dis-integration.

[Supriyo]

I usually go home from a trip to Paris with at least one or two potentially good images but not this time...

 

I suspect Walker Evan raised your baseline standard :).

[Supriyo]

Supriyo, that family had a tough time of it. Zavattini, who wrote the book's text, had the person(s) in each picture write their own caption, sometimes extended. Here's part of what the mother in that picture wrote for that picture:

 

"I married at eighteen and had fifteen children, four of whom died young. In '21 my husband Lusetti was beaten, then he was beaten again in 1926. I never knew the reason for this, I only know that this is what caused his death. In '33 my husband died on Christmas Eve, leaving me in misery with eight sons and three daughters. During the war my dear sons served in Italy, France, Greece, Germany, Africa, and England. ... " She gives details of what happened in the war, ending with: "In 1945 they asked me if I wanted revenge, but I didn't."

 

My favorite bicycle picture from the book is this one:

 

Paul Strand, Luzzara bicycle

 

There are a lot of things that I like about that picture but an odd one is that the bicycle reminds me of a horse in a stable. I doubt the picture would be the favorite of most people: I love it. What's odd about most of the pictures-with-bicycles in the book is that they show really old guys in suits and ties, holding their old bicycles as if it's the most normal thing for guys in suits and ties (and old-guy hats) to be riding bicycles. There is not one car in the whole book, though the streets seem to be paved.

 

[i hadn't noticed the artifacts above the door that you point out. They [i]are [/i]interesting.]

 

I am sorry for what happened with that family. Innocent people on both sides of the aisle suffered horribly. In my opinion, the photo doesn't document their real lives, but may be the aspiration of who they want to be, or rather how I wished their lives were.

 

That picture you posted is so eerily nostalgic. In India, most people store their bicycles just like that (including me). They all have that little shed under the stairs with a small space to store the bike. Its usually dark and you can scarcely notice the back reflectors of the bike staring at you. I like the stairs, how they are worn out from living in that house and using them ... for a long time.

[Supriyo]

I recently found this photo that I shot a few years back, while looking for images to post at the NW forum. Cars flocking together at a gas station at night. I thought they looked like thirsty animals gathered around a water hole. Just posting here, for I thought it could be relevant.

 

[Norma Desmond]

Supriyo, you blew it. You should have saved that one for the "Banana (symbols)" thread.

[Supriyo]

Supriyo, you blew it. You should have saved that one for the "Banana (symbols)" thread.

 

Yes, I agree that would have been wiser. But I saw Julie mentioned in the 'Strangers' thread, this was the end of the symbols series, so I thought I would take my chance now. :D

[Julie H]

I searched high and low for any source that would claim 'peanut' or 'pea' as symbolic so I could have a 'Peanut (symbols)' thread or a 'Pea and Net' (symbols) thread ('net' has tons of symbolic sourcing), but no luck. Darn!

 

[p net ... get it? get it? ... :p << the emoticon I said was 'Supriyo's favorite' in another thread]

[Supriyo]

Oh yes, about that emoticon ... I almost forgot about it, but did like it though. I also found something that Julie might like, not an emoticon though. Here it is: http://advan.physiology.org/content/ajpadvan/33/4/257/F9.large.jpg

[Julie H]

.............

 

Supriyo, how about supporting this Philosophy forum. Start a thread:

 

 

I promise I will only post to your thread if I have something to say about the ideas in your thread.

 

I promise to make no personal attacks, no snarky cleverness, no clever wink-wink innuendo.

 

I will attack your ideas, if I don't agree with them. That's what threads are supposed to be for.

 

How about it? I dare you.

 

...........

[Norma Desmond]

Supriyo, I may have to start a bad pun thread as I just realized I said "you blew it" in reference to bananas, lol.

 

Recently in another thread, there was talk of visual puns. Haven't given this much thought, but I wonder if a visual pun could be made without using a symbol. First thing that occurs to me is that it could but would, perhaps, require at least a sign.

 

Interestingly, I find a lot of photographic visual puns wanting, especially ones that use signs (a guy smoking next to a No Smoking sign, a heavy-set woman walking below a billboard with a slim, sexy model on it). I'd guess visual puns using symbols, on the whole, would be more challenging, though it would be too easy to fall into the banana-symbol cliche.

 

I will admit to having used emoticons once or twice, just to see how it would feel. Felt like I was using a crayon instead of a pen. That said, I do use typed characters to make symbols on occasion, but I think because I used to be a typesetter and have been playing around with letters and punctuation marks for most of my life, I get special dispensation.

 

;-)

[Supriyo]

I promise to make no personal attacks, no snarky cleverness, no clever wink-wink innuendo.

 

I thought we were in a joking mood ... thats why you brought up the emoticon. In response, I made fun of you. I was never upset by your emoticon.

 

I did post an image that I thought was relevant. If you want, we can get back to topic right now.