d810 refurb experience thus far

[John Di Leo]

a couple of weeks ago I posted here for advice about buying a used/refurb d810.

All of the advice was good and I took it, but I offer this as my experience thus far.

I found a d810 refurb by Nikon from BuyDig.com at an acceptable price. I ordered and I received it within a week. It came in the official "Refurbished by NIKON" white box, had the Nikon warranty slip, a neck strap, battery, charger, two clips for HDMI USB cords, and a Nikon slip telling me I can download the manual and the nikon software from the NikonUSA site. Fine.

 

There were a couple of very small and very minor chips on the bottom and the body's lens mounting ring showed some slight scratches. No big deal, but NOT nearly mint as I had hoped. OK, again, no big deal. I put the battery in, took a pic with the nearly exhausted battery and discovered the shutter count was 44,601. I would have preferred fewer, but chances are the shutter will be fine for a long time. I'm liking this camera.

I put the battery in the charger---> rapidly flashing orange light indicating either the battery or the charger was bad. On the camera's menu--with the 2% remaining charge on it--I went to Battery info and it was read as "NEW." And 2%.

A quick google search confirmed that it was likely the charger bad, but it could've been the battery also. I could NOT play with my new toy at delivery because of a failure. Disappointment #1.

 

The next morning I went to a local camera store, they looked at the battery and charger, told me the charger was bad. They were kind enough to charge the battery, so I could at least test out this significant purchase made because I trusted NIKON's QC.

The camera appeared fine in the limited testing I did, but going through the menu, under copyright info was listed the previous owner's (or maybe A previous owner's) name. Now I am getting suspicious about what I bought. I went to her, prev owner's, website and saw the type of work she did, and felt somewhat comforted that her subject matter was baby shots, engagement and family portraits. This led me to believe that she, if she was the only owner, probably took good care of her equipment.

This is Disappointment #2. It is obvious whoever claimed to refurb the camera at NIKON missed the malfunctioning charger (how can you miss that!) and did not wipe the camera's software clean. Any picture I would take and would try to sell---if I had not caught this--would show a different owner of the photo in the exif data. This is just sloppy on the part of the Nikon tech and Nikon QC.

I contacted Nikon, giving them the serial number, asking if I could get the service history of the camera, "just for my own information," and explained what I had found.

"Christine C." refused or couldn't give out that info. I painstakingly explained that this camera was in an eval period, I could send it back, but if there was no service history to it, I might consider keeping it, or at least sleep on it for a few days, putting it through paces.

No go.

I asked Christine how can I trust the Nikon technician who missed two flagrant issues to have adequately inspected the camera for anything. I also explained that I have shot exclusively Nikon SLRs since my Photomic Tn I got in 1968. IOW I am a long standing and loyal customer. Nothing.

After 3 days, Christine then advised me to send the camera back to Nikon so "one of (their) technicians could look at it." I understand this, but it really irritated me, as I am going to be without a new to me camera for who knows how long, that I am being asked to trust a technician--didn't I just "trust" one? And the icing on the cake is the shipping and insurance is at MY expense. ON their supposedly "refurbished to factory specs" camera

So, it will go to UPS tomorrow and then off to Los Angeles for who knows how long and for how much?

 

I will keep the forum posted and I hope this is not commonplace. BTW, there is no indication anywhere on the packaging identifying the responsible "technician."

[Sandy Vongries]

This sounds fishy to me -- did the Nikon Box / Paperwork include the camera serial number?

[John Di Leo]

yes, the serial number was there on the refurb slip; it matched the camera. It looked legit, and in my emails to Nikon I gave the serial and there was no questioning of it-- OT, I checked Roberts camera, btw, in fact sold them some stuff as they were visiting a local store, but never heard back about a d810, and found this one. IIRC you rec'd them.

 

I can say I have no beef with Buydig.com. They performed well. In fact, the first call I made was to them, complaining about the charger flashing and without batting an eye sent out a vivitar battery and charger to keep, and said contact Nikon for the warranty on the charger.

If it were fishy, I would like to think I'd catch it, but this is all Nikon through their NikonUSA website customer service.

[Sandy Vongries]

Just luck of the draw, I guess. So far, I've never had a bad buy on line. Everything at least as good condition as advertised. A few things from Roberts, and Japan as well that were described as used seemed to be brand new. I will say, I almost always use PayPal, so I have a "safety belt." Better luck in future!

[Dieter Schaefer]

NOT nearly mint as I had hoped ... shutter count was 44,601

Factory refurbished is often believed to indicate "nearly new" but even the briefest of google searches will reveal that this is not always the case. Clearly not all refurbished cameras fall into the categories mentioned by Helen Oster in this thread: https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/refurb-d600-has-5436-actuations.484936/; some have seen more heavy use than suggested there and should be considered "certified pre-owned". No way of knowing beforehand though.

 

BTW, aside from coming with stickers and/or in white boxes, Nikon factory refurbished products appear to be easily identifiable by the two dot indents that are put one on each side of the serial number.

 

On the Nikon USA website it states:

12/13/2016

 

What is a "factory refurbished" camera?

Nikon occasionally offers reconditioned products either directly to customers or through dealers. These products have been carefully reconditioned by Nikon Inc. to meet all factory specifications. Refurbished products may have signs of previous use (minor body wear or other cosmetic indications) but contain all original cables, batteries, manuals* and other accessories and are protected by a 90-day limited warranty.

 

Nothing in there supports the notion that "refurbished" means "hardly used/almost new" or some such. In essence, a "(factory) refurbished" camera is a product that has been worked on by a Nikon technician, been verified to be within factory specs and comes with a 90-day warranty.

 

I have purchased a few factory refurbished Nikon cameras, none came with a shutter count higher than a few thousand, in line with my personal perception of what "refurbished" should be. Had I received one with a much higher shutter count indicative of "pre-owned, heavily used" I would simply have returned it unless the price reflected the higher shutter count. Why would I keep a 50K-actuation D810 if for the same price, if I could get one with a mere 2K clicks on it? Apparently, the seller of a refurbished camera has no way of knowing the shutter count, so there's a certain element of chance there.

 

who missed two flagrant issues

I doubt that checking the charger and even the battery is part of the reconditioning procedure (not that it shouldn't). I recently left a D500 with the Nikon Service Center in LA and they didn't keep the battery even though they were going to use the camera to test a lens that was left for repair. An almost empty battery is inconvenient but not too long ago even new Nikon cameras came with a battery that needed to go onto a charger right away.

 

The issue with the previous owner's name still being in the pertinent fields of the menu is also something I would expect to have been cleared in the reconditioning process - but a simply "reset to factory default" doesn't seem to clear those entries and they need to be deleted manually. Not a big deal but it should have done during service (if for no other reason as protecting the identity of the previous owner). When I sell/trade-in a camera, I make sure I have erased that information.

 

"Christine C." refused or couldn't give out that info.

Given my negative experience with calling Nikon Technical Support, I am quite certain that she does not have access to that information; at least not right away.

 

So, it will go to UPS tomorrow and then off to Los Angeles for who knows how long and for how much?

Rather than sending the camera to Nikon and possibly incurring additional costs, I'd pack it up and return it to buydig. $2,095 for a used D810 with 44k+ clicks on it, even with a 90-day warranty attached, is not something I'd consider an acceptable price.

 

I can say I have no beef with Buydig.com.

They are an Authorized Nikon Dealer so I wouldn't think there's anything fishy and they most certainly did get their refurbished products directly from Nikon.

 

Just luck of the draw, I guess.

Indeed!

[robert_bouknight1]

What viewer are you using to get shutter info on the D810? I always used Opanda in the past, but can't seem to find shutter count on D810 files with Opanda.

[ShunCheung]

I think buying Nikon USA refurbished products is a bit of a crab shoot. I understand a lot of people on this forum have had excellent experience with refurb; sometimes you can even get a product that is indistinguishable from new. For DSLR bodies, the shutter actuation count could be below 100, but it can also be 30K, 40K, which is not out of the ordinary.

 

As I have posted here a number of times, I have had very bad experience with refurb Nikkor lenses. Once a friend of mine received a refurb 70-300mm AF-S VR from B&H, and the lens rattles if you shake it. Clearly some screw is loose inside and the entire focusing mechanism doesn't work, AF or MF. Obviously no technician checked that lens out before shipping it out as refurb.

 

Again, a lot of this is the luck of the draw.

 

In the case for this OP, perhaps John is better off getting a new D810.

[John Di Leo]

First, I truly want to thank all for the helpful comments during this “process.”

To Dieter:

As I said, I hoped it would be “nearly mint,” but recognized that might not be. I was not expecting the camera to be flawless cosmetically and I was willing to accept its minor imperfections, if I could be sure the camera was operating as it should and truly was given an extensive going over that I did expect on an item being sold as a Nikon Refurbished product from a Nikon reseller.

 

The camera does have the two small indents on either side of the serial number—thanks for that tip. So, It IS a Nikon refurb, and not false advertising.

 

As I stated I tried to get a service history from Nikon on the camera and they would not provide. Why? I can get the service history of a car on line if I know the VIN, certainly analogous to the serial number. Why so secretive when it comes to a camera from Nikon? If they all do that then, why do consumers allow that practice, but that’s a question for another day. :) It begs the question of concealment?

 

>>Nikon occasionally offers reconditioned products either directly to customers or through dealers. These products have been carefully reconditioned by Nikon Inc. to meet all factory specifications. Refurbished products may have signs of previous use (minor body wear or other cosmetic indications) but contain all original cables, batteries, manuals* and other accessories and are protected by a 90-day limited warranty.<<

 

Nothing there I disagree with. My question is totally related to the statement’s veracity regarding the camera I received and Nikon’s seeming stonewalling my inquiry into its history and their sorta cavalier advice to send it back to them via UPS insured—Turns out that is just under $180 as advised by UPS today. I can’t just throw money at this. At this point I have no confidence that a Nikon technician even looked at the camera, much less restored it to factory specs. Buying the camera I had to trust that above statement, however, now, after delivery, I have reason to distrust it.

I know the shutter count is higher than I anticipated, but I also realize that nowhere should I be led to believe that the shutter count should be below a certain number. I was willing to accept even that, but I just got NO satisfactory customer service response from Nikon.

 

I would expect a Nikon technician to plug in the charger to be sure it works. What a flashing orange light indication of sloppy work sending out something so simple, and so simply checked. That the battery wasn’t charged…no biggie, I can charge it! Oh wait…no I can’t. That's cutting corners or just sloppy. I don't work like that and I don't expect NikonUSA to work like that either. the customer and ultimately Nikon also suffers.

 

And yeah, the prev owner info still in the camera has serious legal implications for me, the prev owner and Nikon. It is inexcusable.

 

And, as Shun says:

>>In the case for this OP, perhaps John is better off getting a new D810.<<

I think you’re 100% right. I’ve been a serious hobbyist for over 50 years, using only Nikon SLRs, with Nikon lenses and accessories, including those for astro. I always bought new. That’s not cheap. Adding to the frustration of being treated thus so far by Nikon customer service in the fact that this is an amazing camera, more than I expected. I’m learning about things it does that I did not know, like exposure bias for highlights? Wow, I didn’t know that actually existed, but it’s on the 810.

 

To Robert:

www.camerashuttercount.com I don’t remember if I uploaded an nef or a jpg

 

Again, I appreciate the “solace” and advice from everyone. I am going to call Nikon now and plead my case, after that prob Buydig.com

I truly suspect the camera might be fine, but at $2100 I don’t want to suspect.

 

Thanks again

[Dieter Schaefer]

Nikon’s seeming stonewalling my inquiry into its history

Nikon could possibly provide you with the service history of your camera if it was serviced at the Nikon Service Centers in Melville and Los Angeles. But there are 16 others Authorized Repair Stations in the US (Nikon Authorized Repair Stations); they are independent businesses and I very much doubt that they provide Nikon with a record of services/repairs performed. Most likely there's no concealment, a complete service history simply doesn't exist.

 

extensive going over

Since Nikon doesn't publish their refurb procedure, it's conjecture what actually gets done in the process. There's certainly some testing going on, and adjustments if things are not within specs. General cleaning. But time's money and Nikon isn't going to waste time on doing more than absolutely necessary to be able to sell the item again.

 

At this point I have no confidence that a Nikon technician even looked at the camera, much less restored it to factory specs. Buying the camera I had to trust that above statement, however, now, after delivery, I have reason to distrust it.

Totally understandable. I do believe that a technician looked at the camera, but how careful and to what extent?

 

I don't work like that and I don't expect NikonUSA to work like that either.

The defective charger is unfortunate but not necessarily an indication of shoddy work; it might have tested OK and then failed afterward. Or it didn't get tested at all. Quite certain that a certain number of new cameras get delivered with defective chargers too.

[BeBu Lamar]

I wonder how much money the OP saved by buying refurbished compared to the new D810 now for $2496 and if you can sell the battery grip for some money it's even less.

[ShunCheung]

It is Nikon USA's practice to put two dents on either side of the serial number on their refurbished products. See the attached image for the refurb 80-400mm AF-S VR I once bought, and returned, since it wasn't sharp at 400mm wide open at f5.6. I have used two new samples of that lens and they are both sharp at 400mm, f5.6.

 

And therefore it is very easy to distinguish refurb products from ones that have never been thru refurb.

 

CH]

[Ed_Ingold]

When sending equipment to the manufacturer for refurb or replacement, you are usually advised to omit accessories, including lenses, memory cards, cables, chargers and often batteries. Li-Ion batteries are subject to HAZMAT regulations, so including them may constitute some sort of violation. It is likely Nikon never saw these items on return, or simply ignored them. You are usually cautioned to back up any memory, which may be lost in the transaction. However refurbishing does not automatically result in wiping the memory, including presets like the copyright notice.

 

In some respects, you might be better off buying used than refurbished. Reburbishing implies something was wrong that ordinary repairs could not restore. The used price from a reputable dealer like KEH or B&H usually reflects the physical condition - your money, your choice.

[Dieter Schaefer]

Reburbishing implies something was wrong that ordinary repairs could not restore.

I don't think that's implied at all. I am not aware that any refurbished item has received some "extra-ordinary repair"; most likely did not need any repair at all and were just checked to be within factory specifications. Many refurbished items had nothing wrong with them to begin with, they were demos or customer returns. Others did have to go through the process because they had issues - they got repaired and the issues fixed. In fact, if anything "extra-ordinary" was needed, then it most likely wouldn't be cost effective and the item in question would be scrapped.

[ShunCheung]

I don't think that's implied at all. I am not aware that any refurbished item has received some "extra-ordinary repair"; most likely did not need any repair at all and were just checked to be within factory specifications. Many refurbished items had nothing wrong with them to begin with, they were demos or customer returns. Others did have to go through the process because they had issues - they got repaired and the issues fixed. In fact, if anything "extra-ordinary" was needed, then it most likely wouldn't be cost effective and the item in question would be scrapped.

A product can become refurbished for a variety of reasons. For example, Nikon regularly sends out test samples for evaluation. I have received numerous DSLR bodies and lenses as test samples. In most cases the items would still be "like new" after a few weeks of usage; I might have a few thousand shutter actuations on a body. In one case I accidentally dropped a lens that ended up with some superficial scratches but was otherwise working fine. I am sure that would need some repair.

 

Additionally Nikon's sales reps have samples in exhibitions, demos ... And of course there are customer returns and there are defective items that indeed require repair.

 

Essentially refurbished items are neither always perfect nor always bad. They could be "like new" or could still be defective. My personal experience is that Nikon USA doesn't always do a good job checking things out. While plenty of members here have great experience with refurb items. my impression is that John the OP here has pretty high expectations such that I think for him, he is better off buying a new D810, which are in deep discount in these days.

[Dieter Schaefer]

A product can become refurbished for a variety of reasons.

And there seems to be a lot of confusion as to what those reasons are; Nikon certainly isn't very specific on the issue. Apparently, a service advisory/recall does not automatically get the affected item classified as "refurbished" (cameras will get a black spot in the tripod socket, for example, but not necessarily the two indents indicating "refurbished"). I am not sure stores are under any obligation to forward a customer return to Nikon for refurbishment though legally, of course, they can't sell it as new any more (they may actually make a bigger profit from selling it used than from selling it new or refurbished). I am quite certain that Nikon themselves declares brand new items as refurbished, thereby avoiding the inherent cost of providing a 1-year (or 5 for lenses) warranty and MSRP restrictions. I am quite suspicious of the statement that items found in the factory that got flagged for whatever reason will be sold as "refurbished"; who would know that they received any kind of special treatment (and why are they no longer considered "new"?). I do understand that demo and review samples will undergo the refurbishment process just to make sure things are still fine; they would be fairly hard to sell otherwise.

 

I believe it's best to consider "refurbished" items as used with the benefit of a 90-day warranty and the potential burden of having been in need of adjustment/repair in the past and to test them thoroughly during the return and warranty period.

 

Based on Shun's experience with his refurbished 80-400 I was a bit nervous buying one directly from the Nikon store and I tested the lens thoroughly but found no issues at all. In essence, I did not do any more than what I do even to equipment purchased new.

[John Di Leo]

This has been an excellent discussion and it is much appreciated.

Let me give what the follow up is so far, as of today 6/23/17.

I was able to contact the previous owner. She said she is now on her "4th" d810 and continues to love the camera. Why 4th? Because she said that whenever "any issues arose with the camera" ( and I took this to mean real or imagined) she would simply bring it back to Best Buy and because of their "excellent return policy, would simply exchange it for a new one." Don't know if any restocking or other charge was involved, but the cameras were of such quality that she stuck with them. She also said that she doesn't remember any disasters or catastrophic experiences with any of her prev d810s. So, that was good news. Still, my concerns remained.

The longer I thought about it the more irritated I became with Nikon, though. I called up the 800 number, gave my service req number, and asked to speak with someone who could replace this supposedly "refurbished" camera with a new body. I was connected to a customer service supervisor.

I got nowhere with the request to get a new body. I found out that there is no shutter count above which refurbishing was not performed. OK, I also found out that there was no service history for this serial number with Nikon---had they been forthcoming with that bit of info from the beginning, this ordeal would have been prevented; that's what I wanted to know from the get go, as the camera "appeared" fine even though the shutter count was more than I expected. They offered to look at the camera again, if I sent it in, and after some discussion, they offered to pay for 2nd day delivery to the Los Angeles facility, with insurance coverage. Fair enough. The supe said that when I get the service ticket number to contact her and she would see if she could move it through the process faster than the "usual one month turnaround."

What I did not have was the supe's email address, so I was stuck with using the trail of emails to alert her of the camera's arrival. I got no response that she was in receipt, but I did receive an email from the technical support supervisor, and copies of two tickets.

Before I sent the camera away, I did some shooting with it to try to uncover any problems; as far as I could tell, it was working properly--and I was, unexpectedly, blown away with the dynamic range of the camera! There was no shadow that lacked detail...pretty amazing. I did also discover that the firmware was not current, more fuel to suggest whoever "refurbished" the camera, was not the sharpest lens in the case. I admit that it could be the firmware was current at the time of the refurb. But, the tech supe said that upgrading the firmware "is not a part of the refurbishing process." Caveat emptor, y'all.

So, according to the NikonUSA website, my camera is being shipped back to me. On the ticket the complaints were distilled to: Malfunction charger, previous user data not wiped clean, out of date firmware. What I wanted and what I discussed with the supe from Cust Svc was a re-refurb of the camera. I want to believe that was done, whatever that means.

The question was asked about the price of the camera vs a new one, considering the headaches and uncertainty involved. I think the difference is still significant, esp since the price has returned to nearly $2800, but I will not buy refurb again. I think I would buy used, but I am hoping that question is moot.

Again, thanks for the discussion on what refurbished means, and more importantly, what it does NOT mean.

 

Dieter said it well:

I believe it's best to consider "refurbished" items as used with the benefit of a 90-day warranty and the potential burden of having been in need of adjustment/repair in the past and to test them thoroughly during the return and warranty period.

[Sandy Vongries]

A weary and tiresome journey. I have had good luck, I guess 3 cameras and near a dozen lenses over several years, all good and still working well. I can see your rationale. Better luck moving on!

[bebu_lamar]

This has been an excellent discussion and it is much appreciated.

Let me give what the follow up is so far, as of today 6/23/17.

I was able to contact the previous owner. She said she is now on her "4th" d810 and continues to love the camera. Why 4th? Because she said that whenever "any issues arose with the camera" ( and I took this to mean real or imagined) she would simply bring it back to Best Buy and because of their "excellent return policy, would simply exchange it for a new one." Don't know if any restocking or other charge was involved, but the cameras were of such quality that she stuck with them. She also said that she doesn't remember any disasters or catastrophic experiences with any of her prev d810s. So, that was good news. Still, my concerns remained.

The longer I thought about it the more irritated I became with Nikon, though. I called up the 800 number, gave my service req number, and asked to speak with someone who could replace this supposedly "refurbished" camera with a new body. I was connected to a customer service supervisor.

I got nowhere with the request to get a new body. I found out that there is no shutter count above which refurbishing was not performed. OK, I also found out that there was no service history for this serial number with Nikon---had they been forthcoming with that bit of info from the beginning, this ordeal would have been prevented; that's what I wanted to know from the get go, as the camera "appeared" fine even though the shutter count was more than I expected. They offered to look at the camera again, if I sent it in, and after some discussion, they offered to pay for 2nd day delivery to the Los Angeles facility, with insurance coverage. Fair enough. The supe said that when I get the service ticket number to contact her and she would see if she could move it through the process faster than the "usual one month turnaround."

What I did not have was the supe's email address, so I was stuck with using the trail of emails to alert her of the camera's arrival. I got no response that she was in receipt, but I did receive an email from the technical support supervisor, and copies of two tickets.

Before I sent the camera away, I did some shooting with it to try to uncover any problems; as far as I could tell, it was working properly--and I was, unexpectedly, blown away with the dynamic range of the camera! There was no shadow that lacked detail...pretty amazing. I did also discover that the firmware was not current, more fuel to suggest whoever "refurbished" the camera, was not the sharpest lens in the case. I admit that it could be the firmware was current at the time of the refurb. But, the tech supe said that upgrading the firmware "is not a part of the refurbishing process." Caveat emptor, y'all.

So, according to the NikonUSA website, my camera is being shipped back to me. On the ticket the complaints were distilled to: Malfunction charger, previous user data not wiped clean, out of date firmware. What I wanted and what I discussed with the supe from Cust Svc was a re-refurb of the camera. I want to believe that was done, whatever that means.

The question was asked about the price of the camera vs a new one, considering the headaches and uncertainty involved. I think the difference is still significant, esp since the price has returned to nearly $2800, but I will not buy refurb again. I think I would buy used, but I am hoping that question is moot.

Again, thanks for the discussion on what refurbished means, and more importantly, what it does NOT mean.

 

Dieter said it well:

I believe it's best to consider "refurbished" items as used with the benefit of a 90-day warranty and the potential burden of having been in need of adjustment/repair in the past and to test them thoroughly during the return and warranty period.

You said the saving is significant. I am curious as to how much?

[John Di Leo]

You said the saving is significant. I am curious as to how much?

about$400-450 (at the 2496 price, more now), which is significant for me at this time. Other than the exquisite hassle of it all, the only thing that concerned me was the shutter count. However, the MTBF for the d810's shutter is somewhere around 200k. I know how much I have shot with my d700, so I feel confident I won't be coming close to the 200k mark--if the averages hold out, and if it needs replacement, the cost would still be in my favor.

It was enough of a pain tho for me not to buy refurb again. ymmv.

Edited June 24, 2017 by John Di Leo

[paul_b.1]

It doesn't look to me as a refurbished product. Recently I bought a refurb D300s+16-85 (as a kit) for aprox 600$. Both, camera and lens was in mint condition, like new , and shutter count was zero. Both items in original packing , with refurbished warranty, 1 year.

Maybe Nikon USA apply different standards (than Europe) to their refurb. products !? :)

...Oh...,and no dents at all (beside serial no)

Edited June 28, 2017 by paul_b.|1

[John Di Leo]

^^^May have been old (new) stock.^^^

But to finish the story, I think...

Yesterday I received the camera back from NIkon. I believe they went over it well because:

It looked cleaner

the buttons seemed crisper

there was an actual name on the return address from Nikon

there were service--not owner's-- manual printouts for clearing data to factory defaults and adding copyright info--complete with hand hi-lighted areas.

the shutter seems quieter

all firmware was updated

granted, many of the obs can be imaginary, but I think not. They were subtle, but there.

 

IOW I think they did another refurb, or maybe the first refurb. Also, they replaced the charger, and it works!

 

So, keeping fingers crossed, but I think I am good to go and I look forward to many years of trouble free service.

Refurb? Caveat Emptor.

 

I thank everyone here for their insights, advice and support.

[ShunCheung]

To John the OP, it indeed sounds like all good to go. Let's focus on the photography and I am looking forward to seeing many great images from you.

[John Di Leo]

I thought I'd follow up on this thread. The camera has performed flawlessly, shutter count is up to 58255. It has traveled on the back of my motorcycle from New Orleans to Nova Scotia, around Lake Superior and up to BC and out to Victoria Island. No hint of trouble. I am occasionally tempted to look at the 850, primarily for its articulating screen, but in my world the 810's pop up flash is way more valuable.

I came across the thread because the rubber focus ring grip on my 24-70 2.8 G is starting to split. There was a thread about this a while back with various solutions, but I cannot find info on how much Nikon would charge to replace the grip.

In short, my "refurb" 810 has been just fine in the nearly 2.5ish years I've had it

[Sandy Vongries]

I have found my used D810 so capable, it may "Bump" my much loved DF out of the bag for my next trip requiring air travel. Hard choice!

[Andrew Garrard]

The D850 is, in my experience, a substantial upgrade (and cost) - but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who would have liked to keep the pop-up flash, John!