Help! Nikkormat EL Aperture Body Coupler Malfunction?

[joseph_andrew]

<p>Hi all!</p>

<p>I recently acquired a Nikkormat EL from my brother. I took an entire roll of film that came back from the lab "unexposed". </p>

<p>I began to check for various problems, and noticed that the lens coupler (on the body of the EL) indicates that lens isnt mounted properly, and I CANT seem to mount it properly. (there should be a slight red indicator that on the coupler that matches the maximum aperture of the mounted lens, but it doesnt for me, despite following mounting instructions properly)</p>

<p>Furthermore, the lenses that mount seem limited to a range of apertures. For example, my 55mm 3.5 lens cannot move to the minimum aperture of f32, or even f22 on the Nikkormat EL body...it can only move from f16 to f3.5!</p>

<p>I am unsure why the roll came back unexposed, but I have an inkling its related to the lens coupler mount on the body. </p>

<p>The "check battery" light works, as I checked the battery. </p>

<p>My dearest friends on Photo.net, any ideas? </p>

 

[SCL]

<p>I think the mounting procedure is similar to my FTN. if your lens is presently unmounted from the camera, with your finger move the pin toward the release button...about 2 o'clock. Set the aperture on your lens to f/5.6. Now when you put the lens onto the camera body, the pin should slide directly into the notch in the rabbit ears. Twist the assembly to the right so the rabbit ears are at 12 o'clock and you should hear everything snap into position. Now rotate the aperture ring on the lens to the left as far as it will go and then do the same thing to the left. That should index the lens and you should be all set. Make sure you have a fresh batter in the camera and go take pictures.</p>

[joseph_andrew]

<p>Thanks Stephen!</p>

<p>After mounting the lens correctly, I was indeed able to use the full aperture range of the lens. Interestingly, the red indicator still does not indicate proper mounting...and the exposure meter is about 7 stops overexposing! </p>

<p>But I will do some more tests :) </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

[DavidTriplett]

<p>Joseph, part of mounting a lens is what we used to call the "Nikon shuffle". Before mounting the lens, rotate the aperture sensor ring all the way to the left (when looking at the front of the camera, and then back to its right limit. Mount the lens with the sensor in this position, aligning the pin detente to fit. Immediately after the bayonet mount is engaged and locked, continue rotating the aperture ring all the way to smallest aperture setting, and then back to the largest aperture setting. If you do this correctly, the red indicator will align with the number of the lens' largest aperture (2.8, 3.5, etc.) If you don't get this alignment, then you have made an error and need to re-mount the lens. This communicates to the light meter the largest aperture so that it can set exposure correctly. This will become an automatic reflex when mounting lenses on your EL, as it did for me so many years ago. The switch to AI lenses and aperture feelers ended this issue. Good luck.</p>

<p>FYI: On your EL, I recommend you check the foam light seal the mirror contacts in the up position. It can get old and sticky, and delay mirror re-set. It can also drop debris into the mechanism. Replace/repair if it is showing signs of deterioration. Otherwise, the EL is the Timex of cameras - It takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.</p>

[DavidTriplett]

<p>See also Matthew Currie's description <a href="/nikon-camera-forum/00Yf7P">here</a>, it is better and more comprehensive than mine.</p>

[SCL]

<p>I should proofread my responses better. It should read "Now rotate the aperture ring on the lens to the left as far as it will go and then do the same thing to the right. That should index the lens and you should be all set. Make sure you have a fresh battery in the camera and go take pictures."</p>

[joseph_andrew]

<p>Stephen and David, </p>

<p>I want to thank you both for your responses. So, I followed your instructions to the word. And now I KNOW there is a problem.<br>

When loaded per your instructions, the aperture ring of the attached lens can move in any which way. However - the coupler on the body will only allow the diaphragm to be wide open, or stopped down to f8.</p>

<p>I can see the diaphragm being controlled (opening up or closing) by the aperture ring when I hold the mounted lens towards my face. But the Nikkormat EL body doesnt seem to want to allow the diaphragm anymore than half open. </p>

<p>Woah!</p>

 

[DavidTriplett]

<p>Joseph, I'll go home tonight, pull my EL off the shelf, dust it off, and see if I can get it to duplicate your issues (without dropping it first). I'll let you know what I find.</p>

[mervyn_wilmington]

<p>Just so that I am clear, are you saying that with the lens off the camera you can (1) move the aperture ring from the largest to smallest aperture without problem, and (2) that the pin on the body will move from left to right (and vice versa) with full travel without problem, but when you put the two together, there is the problem?</p>

[robert_bowring]

<p>I have an EL body with exactly the same problem. No matter what I do the lens does not index properly. I have 2 other EL bodies that work and have compared them to the one that does not work and am unable to see any differences. I have even taken it apart and can not see any problem. Nothing seems broken or bent or out of place but it will not work properly. If you find out what is wrong with yours please post it here. Would really appreciate to find out why mine does not work.</p>

[DavidTriplett]

<p>Experimented with my EL and could not duplicate the problem by simulating errors in lens mounting. Sounds like a failure internal to the EL body. I wish you well in finding a resolution.</p>

[joseph_andrew]

<p>Again, </p>

<p>Thank you everyone for your help. I went ahead and called a professional analog camera repairman from Chicago.<br>

He discovered this - mechanically, the camera works fine. This was news to me. </p>

<p>Its just that the meter is 7 stops overexposed, and I was using the Aperture mode (A) the entire time. Doh!</p>

<p>But its still in disrepair. The body coupler doesnt work with the electrical system! Even with a brand new battery. He said that he will fix any camera BESIDES the EL - it was one of the first electronic Nikkormats, and fixing the system is not his wheelhouse. </p>

<p>I am sorry I couldnt be of more help either! But it will make a great mechanical camera still. </p>

<p> </p>

[fournier_marc]

" When loaded per your instructions, the aperture ring of the attached lens can move in any which way. However - the coupler on the body will only allow the diaphragm to be wide open, or stopped down to f8.

 

I can see the diaphragm being controlled (opening up or closing) by the aperture ring when I hold the mounted lens towards my face. But the Nikkormat EL body doesnt seem to want to allow the diaphragm anymore than half open. "

 

- - -

This is strange as a properly mounted lens, you should not see any diaphragm change unless you push the

depth of field button. Turning the aperture ring on the mounted lens should not affect the diaphragm , visually.

 

Remove lens and push the depth of field button. You should see a lever in camera, next to DF button raise and lower . Raise is it normal state. It might be stuck, binding, causing the 7 stop off.

 

Marc

[jeff_hicks]

Did anyone get any reply for this?

[JDMvW]

part of mounting a lens is what we used to call the "Nikon shuffle"

 

And, as I've said so often before, some of us called it the "Nikon Twist" -- I think it was about the same time as Chubby Checker:rolleyes:

 

In any case, pre-AI NIkons especially really require a manual. Get one from Butkus (Google™)

Edited April 20, 2020 by JDMvW

[BeBu Lamar]

But mounting the lens incorrectly causing unexposed film?

[orsetto]

Old reanimated thread but...

 

Nikon's old pre-AI meter coupling via the forked round tab sticking up on the aperture ring can be a real headscratcher to younger photogs who weren't around when the system was commonplace. It works fairy simply on the professional Nikon F and F2 bodies, but the more affordable Nikkormats were a piece of work to change lenses on. By the mid-70s it became an albatross, forcing them to create a more modern lens/camera meter coupling that worked instantly with no user input ("AI"). But, the old Nikkormats are still nice cameras, and pre-AI lenses are available in droves, so its worth learning the "gotchas" of this archaic system.

 

To properly change lenses and index the lens with the meter with Nikkormat FTn, FT2 and EL, follow the steps posted above by DavidTriplett and SCL (which I'm repeating here). A point I would make more clear is you really need to make sure the camera body lens mount pin is perfectly reset before attaching a lens. Do this by moving it smartly all the way to the left, then all the way to the right until it stops. Verify reset by checking the indicator on the side of the lens mount: the dot should either point to 5.6 or be invisible. If not, flip the pin left and right again.

 

The Nikkormat body must have its coupling pin all the way to the right, and the lens aperture ring set to f/5.6, in order for lens and body to line up correctly. As the lens locks into place, continue turning the aperture ring as far as it will go to the left, then all the way to the right and you hear a "zurip-clack" sound that tells you the meter is indexed. Double check the camera indicator now points to the maximum aperture of your lens, and all is good. If you did not hear the weird mechanical sound, chances are the meter didn't index properly, and you should probably remount the lens to be sure. While there is variance between bodies and some are quiet or silent, its been my experience over many years and many Nikkormats that the "zurip-clack" sound reliably confirms the lens has indexed correctly.

 

Removing a lens from a Nikkormat is easier if you set it to f/5.6 before pressing the lens release and twisting: this keeps the fork and pin synchronized, allowing you to just lift the lens off. If you try to remove the lens at any aperture than f/5.6, you'll get a hangup and resistance as the camera pin pulls the aperture ring to f/5.6 while you twist. This doesn't hurt anything, but its more comfortable if you remember to always set the lens to 5.6 when removing or attaching.

 

Re the Nikkormat EL exposure problems that prompted this thread originally: these cameras all employed CdS meter cells. These cells tend to age out after 40 years, leading to inaccuracy. The cells can be replaced, but the repair cost is usually more expensive than just buying another body that works properly. The manual exposure mechanical Nikkormats work just fine with a dead or innaccurate meter: just ignore it and use a handheld meter or a phone app. The auto-exposure Nikkormat EL and ELW, unfortunately, don't make much sense to use if their meters are out (because the whole point of them is auto-exposure). Still, assuming the manual shutter control electronics are unimpaired, you could use an EL or ELW with dead meter manually if necessary.

 

Exposure meter problems can also be caused by internal parts that wear out or get dirty. This can usually be serviced by a camera tech who wants to be bothered, but here again the repair costs more (perhaps much more) than just finding another body that works OK. The electronic AE Nikkormat EL is harder to get repaired due the rats nest of wiring inside, and additional control points that wear/get dirty. Service techs generally loathe working on early '70s electronic AE SLRs (even Leicas): way cheaper to just buy a replacement body for $40-$80.

[orsetto]

But mounting the lens incorrectly causing unexposed film?

 

It was a combination of issues, apparently. After resolving their lens mounting question, OP also discovered their EL meter was 7 sops off (i.e. dead), so when the camera was set to AE mode with mis-indexed lens it was far enough off their resulting film looked unexposed.

Edited April 20, 2020 by orsetto

[joseph_andrew]

It was a combination of issues, apparently. After resolving their lens mounting question, OP also discovered their EL meter was 7 sops off (i.e. dead), so when the camera was set to AE mode with mis-indexed lens it was far enough off their resulting film looked unexposed.

 

In an internet history first, OP is back. Started taking apart cameras and even making darkroom prints. Dusted EL off ... and followed your directions about resetting the pin properly. Reset verification fails. The indicator shows around 2.8 after a reset - not 5.6 or absence.

 

The Nikon EL metering is still around 7 stops underexposed. The camera has sentimental value, as my father passed away. But it looks beautiful and exposes if meter is ignored.

 

I do not know if the problem is an old cell, or the bayonet itself. I would take the camera apart and try to fix it, but I lack the specialized tools and knowledge. What are the problems with the EL? We may never know, but I plan to keep this camera.

 

My dad's nikkormat works perfectly - and that is still my favorite analog camera. I have a machine-shopped bottom that takes cells which gets the meter voltage proper too.

 

Thank you everyone for keeping this post alive!

Edited February 22, 2021 by joseph_andrew

[robert_bowring]

I could never figure out what was wrong with my EL either. It would not index the lens properly either. I only paid $25.00 for it so it was no big loss. I had 2 other ones that worked but one had a prism that was desilvering. So I took the prism out of the broken one and swapped for the one that was desilvering. So now I have 2 working EL and 1 for parts.