600-800mm on a budget

[shawngibson]

<p>Hi All,</p>

<p>Been venturing into new territory, namely aiming to shoot wildlife (a challenge in Toronto with no car, so, largely zoos and sanctuaries).</p>

<p>I've been looking at a lot of Flickr images from the Toronto Zoo Group, and most of the images I like (tight shots of cats and other large mammals, mostly) are around 600mm and greater.</p>

<p>Currently, I have the A7II with the Metabones IV and Canon 300/4 (non-IS). The combo works very well. But a squirrel from around 20' away takes up a very, very small part of the image.</p>

<p>As an aside, I need a second body, and hope to get something with IBIS. I know Sony has a new APS-C coming out, but rumours are all over the place regarding IBIS.</p>

<p>Up front, I'll be honest: I don't think super-tele and a budget of around $2500-$3000 Cdn, including a second body with IBIS, is going to lead to anything awesome. So the plan now, is "good".</p>

<p>I've been thinking about the possible solutions, and here's what I've come up with:</p>

<p>1) OMD EM1 or EM5II with the Metabones Adaptor, which apparently works as well as the Sony, with my 300/4 and 1.4x converter. Though I've heard that there are AF issues...I tend to manual focus anyways. That would give me a FoV of 840mm with f/5.6 (420mm perspective, of course). Oly+Metabones will be about $1700-$2000) if I buy used Oly. And the half-frame sensor, well. I have 12mp images from my EP1 that are great, but it's 2016, you know?</p>

<p>2) My current A7II with a 400/5.6L and 1.4x converter. Gives me the same FoV as above, but is f/8. 400/5.6L is about $1100, but leaves me with 1 body. This means another A7II and Metabones, which is over $2500 Cdn. Ouch. I'd only buy the Oly above for super-tele, can't imagine using a half-frame sensor otherwise.</p>

<p>3) *Non-Extant* APS-C Sony with IBIS, Metabones IV Adaptor, 400mm/5.6L and 1.x4 converter. Circa $3000 Cdn. Perfect, but there is currently no such camera (though that may change this week).</p>

<p>Help me think out of the box here, please:) I'm willing to buy manual focus tele, but it has to be mated to an IBIS body and give me 600mm and be 'matable' (new word lol!) to a 1.4x converter. Nikkor AIS 400/2.8 ED IF + A7II + AIS converter would be awesome, but that's about double my budget:)</p>

<p>No zooms. I have nothing against the standard 2.8 zooms, but I really don't like any of the super-tele zoom offerings from Canon, Nikon, or Sigma...short of the 200-400mm Canon, and I don't have enough spleens to sell in order to buy that.</p>

<p>"Why is IBIS so important? Won't you be using a tripod at those lengths?"<br /> --Yes of course I will, when required. But I'll also be mating other lenses, of course, portrait lenses, macro, etc. and I have no desire to buy new, expensive, lenses with IS. Kind of defeats the purpose of mirrorless, to me - IBIS and "The Flange":)</p>

<p>I'd appreciate any suggestions, no matter how odd, to get 600-800mm and give me very good, but not excellent, images, within a budget of $3000 Cdn (which is about $1.99 US in today's market).</p>

[JosvanEekelen]

<p>Have you considered digiscoping, adding a compact camera to a telescope?</p>

[shawngibson]

<p>Hi Jos, no, that's totally outside of my experience. My usual work is people at 35-85mm with a bit of 'whatever' thrown in at those same focal lengths.</p>

<p>Although I've been doing a lot of microscope photography lately, kind of the opposite:(</p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>I recently looked up longer lenses and some German video guy ravished about a used Leitz 560mm f5.6 on Canon DSLR. http://www.schnittplatz-natur.de/aufnahmetechnik/560_leitz/560_leitz.htm<br>

Its of course without AF but seems to be frequently equiped with the Novoflex quick focusing mechanism. - Maybe thats fast enough for zoo pictures? I guess you'll do portraits there, not really action? AFAIK it came in both mounts R & M for Visoflex. Brand aside the price tags for that lens aren't as frightening as for somewhat modern AF stuff.<br>

IBIS: Pentax DSLRs have their SR which goes only up to 300mm (according to the manuals and setting options for adapted & heritage glass) - From my understanding long lenses have more lever than short ones, so the same amount of shivering requires a bigger sensor movement to get compensated. - Bottom line: Be happy if you gain an entire f-stop from your IBIS with a 560+x mm lens. <br>

Around here we have a semi tame bunny colony, which I'll hopefully be able to stalk with my 300mm Tair and something digital adapted to it next summer. After licking blood that way I'll try to figure out what I want to buy next.</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>The Sigma 150-600 gets good marks in reviews. The price seems reasonable, and you might be able to AF with the Canon version and the right adapter. Best of all, you won't need a tele-converter, which comes with too much image degradation for a Sony.</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082154-REG/sigma_150_600mm_f_5_6_3_dg_os.html</p>

<p>Even with a long lens, you still won't get close enough to birds and other critters without an effort on your part to stalk, conceal (e.g., a blind) and wait.</p>

[Aoresteen]

<p>I use a common T-mount mirror lens 500mm on my 4/3 DSLRs (Olympus E-5 & E-3) which make it a 1,000mm with the crop factor. T-mounts adapt to most anything.<br>

<br />Mine 500mm is a Soligor CD which was highly rated in it's day (1977).</p>

[mwmcbroom]

<p>If you don't mind manual focus, then you might want to give either the Tamron 500mm f/8 mirror or the Sigma 600mm f/8 mirror a look. The Tamron is one of the best mirrors you'll find (it comes in two version, but both are excellent). The Sigma can be, but there seems to have been more quality control variability with Sigma's 600mm. I've owned two -- an early and a late one. The early one was an outstanding lens. The late one is "so-so" at best.</p>

[SCL]

<p>Well, this might not sound appealing, but it has worked out very well for me, especially on a M4/3 body...but also works fine on my cropped and FF 35mm bodies. I owned a Leitz 560 and a 400/6.3 Telyt at one time; the 560 was too big and heavy, the 400 was terrific, quick and easy to focus, center razor sharp...again though big (long), but collapsible for travel. Still I wasn't satisfied, and I came across a really cheap ($40) Spiratone 400/6.3 from the 1960s (variously called "the girl watcher" and other names). Sfter cleaning the elements (very easy to remove and reassemble) and relubing the focus helicals, and a few minor modifications (it was a T mount lens) I made it usable on a Leitz Visoflex and have adapters to use it on all my SLR/DSLR and M4/3 bodies. Now to the test....I shot side by side comparison photos at great distances (trees, the moon) and close (chipmunks at 10 ft) with this el cheapo and my Leitz. I then sold the Leitz and kept this one...at f/8 the images were indistinguishable except the Leitz seemed to have slightly better chromatic aberration correction in high contrast situations, but the central sharpness was the same. I've used a number of different mirror lenses over the years - Nikon, Canon, Leitz and Tamron...and the Tamron bested the others but I didn't really like the rendering of any of them. So, IMHO, if you want good (not APO) images, cheap and light, the Spiratone is a good choice.</p>

[Ken Katz]

FYI, Sony just announced the A6300, which unfortunately, did not include IBIS. While I understand your

aversion to Sigma/Tamron supertele zooms, they both do get good reviews and I would expect you to obtain

more keepers with this option than some of the other suggestions here. Bob Atkins has reviews of these

lenses on his website and did compare them against his Canon 300mm and 500mm lenses. Also, I have also

heard that IBIS is less effective with long glass than in lens IS. Perhaps thats why Olympus included IS in their

new 300mm lens.

[jcuknz]

<p>I have had 950mm AoV for years now ever since I added a Raynox 2020 [ current model is 2025 ] to my basic x12 zoomed Panasonic FZ20. Since you are showing results on the web there really is absolutely no need for a bigger body/sensor size. Current costs fom Amazon [ FZ50 $250<$350 later model which I have . raynox 2025 at $196 ]<br>

With the 2020 I had to organise a pushfit lens hood made from a plastic drain pipe connector but rhe later 2025 has a thread to do this :) Well worth the trouble as it improved IQ.<br>

The result is an f/4 950mm lens combo to make up for only ever using 100 ISO. with OIS of course.</p><div></div>

[jcuknz]

<p>Photo also shows the collar I made for attaching to tripod or monopod.... 3" thick wall aluminium tube I had. Lens screws onto camera lens which is not one of the tromboning type that have been adopted in recent years. Why I didn't downgrade to later models and went to MFT in due course where I only have about 500mm reach.<br>

But with MFT I can crop though here I cropped too much :-(<br>

Insert shows what I got with Oly TCON x1.7 on my 14-140 zoom but unfortunately only f/10 . a little under 500mm reach.<br>

But from experiments I did with APS-C I doubt if Tele adaptors are likely to work so you have to live with Tele-converters and the one or two stop light loss from a probably already slow lens :-) [ unless you spend BIG :-) ]</p><div></div>

[jcuknz]

<p>The alternative is to brush up on your editing as I had done much earlier where Leo came within feet of me as it paced its enclosure. and I edited out the cage material.</p><div></div>

[shawngibson]

<p>Thanks all,</p>

<p>JC, much appreciate your efforts here.</p>

<p>Seeing as the goal here is maximum reach, without having the funds to get absolutely maximum quality, I've decided to heed the advice here and go for the Sigma 150-600 Contemporary (Canon mount with Metabones smart adaptor), and I'll mate it with either an OMD EM1 or A6000. The former gets me a 300-1200mm field of view, and mates perfectly with my A7II with the Canon 300/4 (a great lens, one of my all time favourites).</p>

<p>I've got great 16x20 and 13x19 prints with an older 12MP m43 (Olympus) with my Epson 3880 so I'm fairly confident that I should go for reach over sensor (i.e. EM1 over A6000).<br>

<br /> The EM1 will make a great lenscap for the Sigma beast lol:)</p>

<p>I'll purchase the lens first, and use it on my A7II, and after a trip to the zoo, I'll decide whether I need 1200mm, or if 900mm will suffice. I suppose that's the best way to choose a body.</p>

<p>Shawn</p>

[steve_fay]

<p>I'm sure it's all right, but it does sound a little funny -- putting a mirror lens on a mirror-less camera. In some universe, that would be like letting matter and antimatter come into contact with one another. :)</p>