underexposure

[bill_force]

<p>I have 2 identical Nikon D1 cameras, one underexposes by 5 stops, the other seems to be spot on.<br>

If I set both cameras identical settings, same lens, same battery same CF card the one camera underexposes severely. I am puzzled because bot cameras set to MANUAL exposure with the same settings the exposure meter shouldn't come into play. If I had both set to "P" I could understand the meter being off on one camera but both the aperture and speed are the same in "manual" but the images are still vastly underexposed. Is it something other than the meter effecting the exposure? </p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>err.... same lens? Which variable is OFF?. I mean you could hear 5 stops of shutter speed being wrong or actually see 5 stops of aperture being wrong by looking down the lens barrel.</p>

<p>Did the pair use to be identical, exposure wise, and one has since 'died'? I guess if one doesn't stop the aperture down it would be OVER not UNDER.</p>

<p>Just to confirm, are you saying the meter is wrong or the actual results of the pictures? If it's just the meter, then you have a lot of exposure compensation dialled in! If it's in the actual pictures, it's a mechanical problem. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p> Is it something other than the meter effecting the exposure?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>The meter has no effect in manual, as you say above....so YES.</p>

<p>In effect, can you make the 'dark' camera take a tone-matched exposure by overexpoing by 5 stops?</p>

<p>ie 'correct' camera records mid tone at f5.6 @ 1/60 @ ISO 200</p>

<p>and 'dark' camera produces mid tone at f5.6 @ 1/60 at ISO 6400</p>

<p>whilst under identical, side by side lighting?</p>

<p>Does EXIF say they are set the same too? There's an invisible exposure compensation in the set-up somewhere that doesn't show in the VF, but as you're fully manual it shouldn't matter.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

With everything the same except the two bodies, it can only be that one of them does not work properly (shutter, aperture control) and needs fixing.

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>My bet would be the aperture control not working, as it's the easiest part to damage. If you set both cameras at the same exposure with wide open apertures, is the difference still 5 stops? I'd start by varying the aperture understand which of the three variables is of the mark.</p>

[Hector Javkin]

<p>We're attempting to guess, because enough information hasn't been posted yet. As Wouter suggests, try testing at different apertures, see to what extent the results change (if at all) and post the results. If you find no changes, test at different shutter speeds and post those results. Those two tests should determine if there is problem with the proper amount of light reaching the sensor. If both turn out to be negative (there is no change) then there may be something wrong with the sensor, which is something that a trained technician would have to test. Keep in mind that, at least on an economic basis, a D1 with a significant problem may not be worth repairing. Of course, you might choose to have it repaired because you like it.</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<p>It doesn't matter what's wrong. As old as that camera is, the clear solution is to ditch it and replace it with something newer if you need a backup body.</p>

[ShunCheung]

Depth of field preview will show you whether the aperture is closing down properly, and the shutter should sound very

differently when the difference is 5 stops. Try around 1/30 second.

[john_tran14]

<p>Did you set both cameras at the same ISO?</p>

[Palouse]

<p>Exposure compensation?<br>

Check the battery.<br>

Don't know if this applies to the D1 or not, but some Nikon DSLRs allow you to set a constant adjustment to the exposure system so you can tailor every exposure to your shooting style, etc.<br>

Clean the camera contacts.</p>

<p> </p>

[bill_force]

<p>O.K. first off everything on both are IDENTICAL settings, same lens, same battery, same CF card, the EXIF shows the same exposure parameters, cleaned all contacts and Mr. Hamm, shove it, I own 12 other cameras, I even have my original 1932 Kodak Recomar that I still use. I just returned from a 10 day cruise of the Caribbean and shot hundreds of photo's with the D1, some are excellent if I don't print over 8 X 10, I like the small files to work with. I see NO legitimate reason to buy a 36 MP camera so I can display on the net. 99% of people who buy high level cameras do so for their ego or for display then only use them to post on the net.<br>

I posted a legitimate question looking for simple answer such as the "sensor" etc. It obviously is not the meter because both Exif's show the same exact info., </p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Bill, I am sorry that one of your D1 is not working properly. Your question is certainly legitimate. However, when the person who has the D1 in question plus another working D1 next to it cannot easily determine what the problem is, I am afraid that nobody else can provide a definitive answer remotely. At best, we can suggest a few things to check just in case you may have overlooked them, such as the shutter no working properly on that camera or some electronics are malfunctioning.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>OK, so if you set 2 seconds on both and go click, does it sound like 2 seconds on both? ie has the shutter timer bust?</p>

<p>As Shun said, when you use the DoF preview button set at, say f8, does it shut down the same amount on both bodies?</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I see NO legitimate reason to buy a 36 MP camera so I can display on the net. 99% of people who buy high level cameras do so <strong><em>for their ego or for display</em></strong> then only use them to post on the net.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>....and you wonder why people reply with a slightly abrasive manner....;-) What you say <em>may</em> be true for 99% of people you know....but not 99% of people here at photo.net.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>shot hundreds of photo's with the D1, some are excellent if I don't print over 8 X 10</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>There is absolutely no doubt that a modern DX sensor would have produced better pictures with a considerably higher dynamic range and colour depth blah, blah, etc.</p>

<p>It's almost certainly broken and beyond economic repair. If you still want to use 2 D1s for your own reasons, just pick up another one from a dealer with 6 months warranty.</p>

<p> </p>

[bill_force]

<p>Shun, I'm sure it's a shutter problem and so not worth repairing. As far as the suggestion that I JUNK the D1 period I think it's uncalled for, if it suites my purposes then it's for ME to decide when to retire it. I still enjoy using my F1 Canon occasionally, I started my photography life in 1947 in school and was a U.S. Navy photog for 8 years and in addition I'm a retired mechanical engineer and retire CEO/Pres. of a NASDAQ traded company for 15 years. I don't cot6ton to being talked down to when I simply asked a legitimate question.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Bill, as yet, you haven't answered a single question we've asked regarding the testing of the camera's shutter sounds or aperture appearance!</p>

<p>If you take a set of images at say, 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30 etc (leaving the aperture alone) do the images get progressively darker?</p>

<p>If you take a set of images at f1.4, f2, f2.8, f4, f5.6, f8, f11 etc (leaving the speed alone) do the images get progressively darker?</p>

<p>The usual benefit of threads like this is that if someone finds it in a few years time, it <strong><em>might</em></strong> have a solution to their problem...:-)</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<p>Bill,</p>

<p>I didn't say that the camera wasn't worth using if it was still working correctly.</p>

<p>I said if you need a backup body and if a D1 is not working, it is not worth repairing, which would certainly cost more than buying one off the auction site or from someone.</p>

<p>I hope it all works out for you.</p>

[bill_force]

<p>Mike, I ran the series in aperture and the shutter speed test.<br>

The shutter speed from 1/30 to 1/500 did as expected but the aperture with the camera set a 1/125 sec. going from F/22 to F/3.3 showed only a slight variation, in fact the shots a 5.6, 4 and 3.3 were almost identical?<br>

This to me would indicate the shutter is working (seems O.K. otherwise at all speeds) but the aperture control is suspect. What's the remedy if not the shutter?<br>

Also when I take the same image with both camera No. 1 is spot on but the suspect camera is almost black BUT the EXIF shows the same for both? This would indicate to me the meter is working but whatever the meter controls isn't.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Bill, have you used depth of field preview to check whether the aperture diaphragm is actually closing down? See my answer on this recent thread: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00dDUH</p>

<p>The the lens is working fine, check the lever on the body side, inside the mount at the 9 o'clock position. Once in a while that gets bent so that it doesn't engage the lens aperture control correctly. It is not that hard to bend it back. I have done that a few times 20 years ago. In particular, you don't have much to lose on an old body.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Probably just a glitch in the faulty camera. My D2H has developed some glitches - including frequent lockups - one of which occasionally and inexplicably results in severe exposure errors. I've used manual lenses to narrow down the cause of the exposure errors, but some meta data is omitted during these glitches so it's difficult to pinpoint the problem. Might be shutter speed, ISO gain, internal processing or some other gremlin. I've manually counted out the slower shutter speed exposures and they match the good exposures, so it's nothing as simple as a shutter speed error.</p>

<p>BTW, you can eliminate the diaphragm linkage mechanism as a potential source of the glitch by using a preset lens with a T-mount, or an older PC-Nikkor which had preset diaphragms. If the glitch occurs only with auto-diaphragm lenses, that narrows down the problem with the linkage. If it occurs with preset lenses, it may be shutter speed or processing errors.</p>

<p>Nowadays I use the D2H almost exclusively for infrared, at which it excels. The glitches are seldom a serious problem because the camera is on a tripod photographing mostly stationary subjects and landscapes. I also use it for time lapse videos, since the full resolution 4 meagerpickle files are perfect for HD video.</p>

<p>I'll just keep using it as-is until it dies. I like the D2H well enough for infrared that I might consider buying a replacement, but I doubt I'd spend more than a couple hundred bucks to have my old D2H repaired. For that money I could have a newer, more reliable camera converted to IR.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>Seems that you have decided that it isn't the shutter, but note that the shutters on digital cameras don't work the same as film cameras.<br>

At the higher shutter speeds, it is only the sensor timing that matters. The mechanical shutter needs to close before the data is extracted from the sensor, but doesn't actually do the timing.<br>

For the usual point and shoot cameras, there is no mechanical shutter. They uses\a different sensor design, that is less sensitive. (A smaller fraction of the sensor array is light sensors.) <br>

Most sensor failure modes would result in no picture at all.<br>

When you say "the same lens", you mean exactly the same, not a similar model? Otherwise, exchange lenses and see if the problem moves.</p>

[bill_force]

<p>Shun,<br>

This I have discovered. Camera no. 1 set on "P" makes an exposure of 1/4 at F/3.3 and it spot on.<br>

Second camera set on "P" records an image at the same 1/4 at F/3.3 but it's way underexposed so not true exif and so much noise it like a 20 piece orchestra, not usable. The same lens for both in fact the same everything including all of the custom settings.<br>

I then enabled manual aperture control in the custom settings and set the aperture MYSELF to F/3.3 and the shutter speed at the same 1/4 sec. and the exposure came out perfect just like the number one camera on "P". So if I manually set the F/stop and the shutter speed it exposes perfectly. I checked the levers and they are O.K., stop down etc. Now what?</p>

[bill_force]

<p>Glen, I used several lenses and all are the same problem. The shutter is obviously O.K. because the image is correct on Manual setting so the problem obviously is the failure of the diaphragm to open sufficiently at a given speed and aperture setting. As I said on manual setting of the shutter and the aperture (physical) is O.K., spot on exactly the same exposure as the other camera on "P".</p>

[bill_force]

<p>Bad news I'm afraid, according to the repair manual the MAIN-MCU controls the aperture so essentially the computer motherboard failed, Adios.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I assume you are using a lens with an aperture ring. If using the aperture ring to set the aperture and the exposure is correct, the problem is coming from the aperture control inside the camera body. Most likely the D1 has a motor to control the position of that lever in the 9 o'clock position inside the mount. It is fairly simple to bend that lever if that is the fix. Otherwise, if any of the motor, mechanical control or circuit board is at fault inside the camera, it is almost certain that any repair cost will exceed the value of the D1 today. Since the D1 was discontinued over 10 years ago, availability of parts could be an issue anyway.</p>

[5711]

<p>that seems to be the aperture control.<br /> i had a similar issue on my d3.</p>

<p>qg de bakker wrote that on the first page.</p>

<p>send it in, repair it.</p>

<p>ah well,..didnt see the alst postings for some reason ..</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>I'm a little confused at "adios". Am I right in understanding that the only problem is that the camera isn't controlling position of the aperture lever - as though custom function 22 were set to 1? (I assume that's the "set the aperture manually" that you're talking about?) So long as the camera is <i>moving</i> the aperture lever, which I would have thought it is if you're underexposing, then I would say you have a perfectly usable camera so long as you don't mind being in aperture priority or manual mode (unless you're using G lenses). If that's not good enough for you, I'd hope you can find a recipient who'd be happy with a D1 that can only do that, even if only as an historical artifact! (I'm tempted to try to pick up a D1 myself, but only for historical reasons.)</p>