Going to 35mm from DSLR - looking at an FD camera - have questions

[sub_lunar]

<p>I got my feet wet in photography with a 35mm camera in the 90s. I didn't really understand all the concepts at the time. I've since used a DSLR for many years and am now pretty familiar with all the manual aperture/exposure/iso settings and only shoot in manual these days. So I found my old "AE-1 Program" last night and discovered to my dismay that this seems to be a dumbed down consumer model designed as a shutter priority camera. No meter inside the viewfinder, it just tells you what aperture you need based on the shutter speed chosen. I guess my DSLR has spoiled me with manual everything and I don't like the automation inherent to the AE-1 Program. If i have to settle with automation, I'd take aperture priority over shutter priority...</p>

<p>What I'm looking for here is a manual 35mm FD camera that can expose for 30 seconds or more (in either manual exposure or auto exposure mode) without having to resort to bulb mode and a separate light meter*.</p>

<p>Since I already have a range of FD lenses for this camera, I'm trying to find an all around manual 35mm FD camera that meets this requirement. I shoot a lot of low light situations with a tripod and often find myself exposing for 30 seconds, hence this requirement. Am I asking too much as a spoiled DSLR user or is this possible in the world of Canon FD?<br /><br />I'm looking at some options and I see that a lot of the old 35mm cameras only have a 1 or two second exposure before bulb mode. Then some, like the AV-1 and AL-1 have an auto exposure mode. <br /><br />1. Beyond 2 seconds on a camera, such as an F-1, is your only choice bulb mode in conjunction with a light meter? Or is there a trick I don't know about to properly exposing beyond 2 seconds? As you may have guessed, I've never used bulb mode. <br /><br />2. Taking automatic exposures into consideration: Are there any FD Canons that can expose for longer than 2 seconds in auto exposure mode? In my searching, I discovered the Nikon FE can expose for several minutes in A mode but the Canon Av-1 cannot as it won't exceed 2 seconds.<br>

-<br>

*I've dug a little deeper and found the "EF" camera has up to 30 second exposures, set manually. Seems like it covers my needs but I'm wondering if there are any others.<br>

3. Is the EF my only option for manual everything with a 30 second exposure capability? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_camera</p>

<p>My apologies for the dumb questions and thank you in advance for any assistance.</p>

<p> </p>

[rick_janes]

The A-1 and T90 have shutter speeds to 30 seconds, the latter is capable of auto exposure. One complication to be noted is the reciprocity failure of film with longer exposures (and often at much less than 30 seconds).

[paul_wheatland]

<p>From personal experience, I would avoid Canon EF electronics are 40 years old, T90 has magnet issues lots of info on the 'net. My two choices are Canon F-1 but only versions 1 and 2(totally mechanical) and Canon A-1. Needing 30 second exposure use a stop watch or digital alarm.</p>

[sub_lunar]

<p>Ah, yes I overlooked the A-1. That looks like a damn fine camera. Being newer than the EF and the F-1, having the various modes plus full manual and not to mention 30 second exposure capability. Nice.<br>

Thanks for the suggestions.</p>

[SCL]

<p>I owned the A-1 for 10 years and used it a lot. It really irritated me as the viewfinder IMHO was really crappy for an eyeglasses wearer. When I returned to FD 10 years later, bought and fell in love with a T90, like it much better than the A-1.</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>the canon fd a amd t series are a good choice, even if you did not have other FD lenses.<br>

the best part has little to do with the camera. the important point is that there is no</p>

<p>fd compatable digital body. and the lenses are less expenmsive.<br>

the NMikon and pentax film lenses fit and are sort of compatible wiuth their digital bodies.<br>

there are issues as m,entioned above.<br>

remeberr the a seriers cameraqs a re very old. the t series are much newer with metal shutters. aNOTHERISSUE IS YOU INSISTING ON A 30 SEC SHUTTER SP[ED.<br>

WHY? how oftenm will it be used<br>

THE IMPORTANT</p>

[sub_lunar]

<p>Regarding the 30 second shutter speed: It's not that I am hooked on a gimicky feature and think I need something I really don't, like you often see with camera shoppers. It's that I want to as closely match my current digital shooting techniques on film without having to buy a newer film camera, like the EOS 3. I know an EOS 3 could do this and I could even use the same lenses on it as my DSLR. But I want an old camera to shoot film with old glass.<br>

When I shoot digital, I often have a tripod set up and often exceed 5, 10 and even 20 second exposures. 30 seconds is quite common in the dark environments I shoot. I want to try the exact same style with an old film camera. I travel very lightly and don't want to fuss around with bulb mode and a light meter hence my preference for built in 30 seconds. I've gotten proficient at working with the built in 30 second shutter speed of my DSLR and I just want to put those same techniques to work on film and see how it compares, see how it feels. <br /><br />Regarding the reciprocity failure of film, I will certainly look into that. I actually just saw a post on this issue in another forum and will carefully consider my film choices. <br /><br />Thanks to everyone for their comments, if you have any other observations let me know. I'm basically starting out from scratch when it comes to film, despite being a digital shooter for years, so I appreciate your input. </p>

[michael_linn]

<p>My EF (bought new in the 70's) and still going strong is the only camera I have ever owned which would meter a 30 second exposure correctly.</p>

<p>It needed new light seals of course along the way.</p>

<p>The electronics are robust compared to other stuff. </p>

[rick_janes]

Use the Booster T Finder on a Canon F-1 and you'll get shutter speeds to a full 60 seconds and the ability to meter at very

low light levels, EV -3.5, about what the full moon provides in countryside away from artificial lighting!

 

The Canon F-1 itself also gives you mirror lockup, in addition to extraordinary reliability and a full range of accessories.

[JDMvW]

<p>You don't say what your digital camera is/was, but it certainly wasn't an FD-mount.</p>

<p>Is there some reason you don't buy a fully developed, AF film camera body that is compatible with your existing digital lenses?</p>

<p>All but the very latest pro film cameras are available for very modest prices these days.</p>

<p>Canon EOS-3, for example is a little more expensive than the earlier EOS film cameras, but it is a superb instrument -- maybe the best film camera Canon ever made. All the features you miss are there too.<br /> There are similar models available for Nikon mount (e.g., N80/F80 for savings, F100 for a bit more). With the Nikons, ironically, you need to watch for lens compatibility for full function.</p>

<p>If you must have FD-mount, the exceedingly fine T90 is the way to go, if you can avoid the shutter magnet problem.</p>

[mwmcbroom]

<p>You mentioned at the outset that you realized the AE-1 Program is basically dumbed down because it doesn't have the full manual capabilities you are used to with you digital camera. Actually, the AE-1P does have a manual mode, it's just that the aperture is not coupled to the meter readout. That is, the readout suggests the aperture you should use, but you have to look away from the viewfinder to manually set it on the lens.<br>

<br />Once camera manufacturers realized they could include the full suite of program, aperture and shutter priority modes, as well as a fully coupled manual mode, in their all-electronic cameras, since these capabilities were all on chip, they began to include it in virtually all their cameras, since it didn't really cost them any extra to do so, and besides, it made for better sales anyway. I can recall buying a first model Canon EOS Rebel about 24 years ago and it had a fully coupled manual mode. I was surprised, and I found it to be quite accurate.<br>

<br />But when it comes to FD cameras, if you want a fully coupled manual mode, where moving the aperture ring results in a movement of a needle or LED, your choices are limited. There is only one A-series camera that is fully coupled -- the AT-1, which is a manual-exposure only camera. It's still battery dependent, however, and has Canon's notorious bottom-center-weighted metering pattern, which I personally don't care for. But as long as you realize that's what you're stuck with, you can make allowances for it. The EF, while it will meter down to 30 seconds, is not fully coupled. Neither is the T-90, unfortunately. Your other FD choices are the Canon F-1 (both original versions and the New F-1) and the FTb. As Rick Janes mentioned, the original F-1 with the Booster T finder will get you down there to those ultra long exposures you say you need. I have one for my old F-1s and I think it looks kinda cool, turns the camera into this massive blockish looking thing. Canon also made a booster finder for the FTb that will get its metering capabliities down pretty low. I don't know how low offhand, you might want to google "ftb booster finder" to find out. So that's two of 'em that'll get down pretty low for you.<br>

<br />Oh, and there are other really great reasons to use the original F-1 and/or FTb -- they both have mirror lock up, which can be useful at slow speeds, and they both use Canon's selective area metering pattern, where only about the central 12% of the viewing area is metered, outlined by a faint rectangle. Metering occurs only within this rectangle, so it ends up being a very useful way to meter scenes while keeping extraneous light sources from over-influencing, or incorrectly influencing exposure values. I shot FTbs and old F-1s for years and got so comfortable with the selective area metering that I could even use it almost as averaging spot meter by maneuvering the camera around to get the pattern to read areas of a scene, hence sort of averaging the scene for me, to help me decide on a final exposure setting. With regard to longevity, the FTb is a workhorse and is still pretty commonly available on the used market for very reasonable sums. The F-1 is an exceptionally durable camera and just keeps working and working and working. I've owned several and have never had one let me down. The F-1's light meter is usually dead-nuts accurate as well.<br>

<br />If you're really into low-light photography, there are two other cameras I'd recommend: the original Olympus OM-2 (not the 2n) and the Pentax LX. The OM-2's OTF metering technology, coupled with the particular chip used with that camera, allowed slow, metered exposures that can last for minutes. The Pentax LX also uses an OTF sort of technology and behaves in a similar fashion, although I don't believe it will last for as long as the Oly OM-2 will. I have used the LX under very low light conditions, resulting in correctly exposed frames. Quite impressive. OM-2's can be had for reasonable prices these days, but there is still a hard-core Pentax K-Mount following who loves the LX, the result being quite high prices for clean used examples of this great camera.</p>

[alan_swartz]

<p>Hi sub lunar,<br>

<br />Within your parameters of a film body to use with old glass, and specifically an FD body capable of 30-second exposures, I'd suggest the A-1 or T90. They are the youngest FD bodies that meet your criteria, and the ones most similar in operating feel to your experience. I've written a long post to forewarn you what problems to expect in these aging bodies, too.<br>

<br />The A-1 was the "prosumer" version of the AE-1 (and later AE-1 Program), and it boasts a lot more features and flexibility. The T90 was the first heavily-electronic professional FD body, so much so that there was a good deal of doubt about it in the beginning. Popular Photography dissected one in their initial review, accompanied with a certain dose of fear about whether all that circuitry was reliable and suitable for professional use. It was...but there's more.</p>

<p><strong>A-1</strong><br />The A-1 at ISO 100 couples to EV -2, f/1.4 at 8 seconds. It will therefore auto-expose a 30 second exposure at f/2.8, which is of course also EV -2. It has Programmed, Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, and Stopped-down AE modes, as well as manual, though the manual mode isn't as intuitive as some would like. Viewfinder readout is in red LED digits for aperture and shutter speed below the screen. I wear glasses and never had an issue with the viewfinder myself. Focusing screens are interchangeable with a screwdriver...hardly worth it.<br>

<br />The Motor Drive MA is a nice, chunky drive that adds a lot of heft, good grip, and a nice vertical release. There were both NiCd and AA alkaline battery packs for it. If you get the drive, you want the AA pack today, as the NiCd pack is nigh impossible to recondition and the chargers are generally inoperative.<br>

<br />I used to shoot a lot of night on Kodachrome using aperture-priority AE with my A-1s. Depending on the percentage of the frame in darkness, I'd set exposure compensation on the A-1 and let it shoot AE. It worked beautifully.<br>

<br />All A-series cameras consume battery power to hold the shutter open during long exposures. Battery life can be rather short if you do a lot of night shooting; otherwise about a year. Uses a 544 6-volt battery, still readily available, but not on every street corner like they once were.<br>

<br />Any A-1 will need a CLA service. There is a mirror damper flywheel whose bearing has been dry for 27 years now, causing a classic squeak on shutter release. Otherwise, the camera is quite durable, especially considering it was a consumer-grade machine.</p>

<p><strong>T90</strong><br />The T90 at ISO 100 couples to f/1.4 at 2 seconds, as I recall. Could be longer...maybe. The manual shows charts for the various program modes, but oddly does not offer a meter coupling range chart like the A-1 manual does. Shutter speeds extend to 30 seconds.<br>

<br />The T90 is an A-1 on steroids: additional exposure modes, partial-area and spot metering patterns, sophisticated flash exposure with a 300TL Speedlite, lots of cool stuff--the true precursor to the Modern Age as embodied in the EOS cameras. It's really very like an EOS prototype for FD lenses. Built-in motor drive, so noise is unavoidable. Lovely camera, and the electronics are bulletproof, but the shutter design, specifically the release magnets, were not.</p>

<p>To solve the battery problem of the A-series, Canon used a permanent-magnet armature in the shutter release electromagnet. Only a brief pulse of power is needed to reverse the field and release the shutter, so there is no excessive current drain during a long exposure. Unfortunately, the magnets tend to stick over time, especially when the camera is disused, resulting in <em>"the dreaded EEE error,"</em> where the camera does nothing and the shutter will not release. Technically, there are three of these magnets: mirror release, first curtain, second curtain. Professional service is the solution, though whacking the finely crafted precision camera body on a hard, yet cushioned, surface is an internet-recommended (?) temporary cure (?). General wisdom is that a serviced T90 kept in regular use will keep working, but it's a point you should be aware of. My most regularly used T90 body failed to expose some 40-50% of its images at the end of a long trip in 2012--just the last roll. It went through the motions, but the first curtain apparently didn't open all the time. It was serviced some years prior, but it had been awhile.</p>

<p><strong>Nostalgic feel: the EF</strong><br />Like the A-1, the older EF body will also couple to EV -2, f/1.4 at 8 seconds, and it has timed shutter speeds to 30 seconds. A product of 1960s-early 70s concepts, it has mechanical pointers and meter needles in the viewfinder. Its viewfinder is darker than the A-1 or T90. Requires two 625 button cell batteries. It is a rugged camera with a Copal Square metal focal plane shutter. Slow speeds are electronically timed, but fast ones are mechanical and require no battery to operate. I don't believe there is any LSI electronic wizardry in this one; I think it's too early. I wonder who is still able to service and repair an EF? I just don't know the answer. IIRC, it has a reputation as an extremely mechanically complex camera.</p>

<p><strong>Not what you asked</strong><br />You didn't ask, but if you want an FD body that will still be shooting after you're in your grave, a cleaned and serviced copy of any of the three versions of the F-1 will do it. No 30-second timed speeds, but one lovely, hefty fine piece of machinery. It's worth owning one just to hear the shutter.</p>

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>A lot of very useful information has been provided already but I would add only the following: Ken Oikawa can service EF bodies (he serviced mine and did a great job) ... the EF's electronic shutter timing increments in powers of two so your 15 second exposure is really 16 seconds and 30 seconds becomes 32 seconds. More of a trivia point in terms of impact on your photography, but just in case you buy one and time the shutter, don't let that surprise you. Best of luck with your decision.</p>

[steven_endo]

<p>To expand on Rick Janes' suggestion of the F-1/F-1n with Booster T finder, the FT/FTb/FTbn also had an accessory low-light booster finder as well.</p>

[greg_campbell1]

Give this site a read: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/SLRs/index.htm

<br><br>

As suggested, an A1 or T90 are the most likely options. The T-90 is a superb camera - the multi-spot metering alone is worth the purchase price. Frequent use tends to forestall the shutter issue. As mentioned, it will do long exposures forever w/o draining the battery. The T-90 does lack mirror lock-up.

<br><br>

The A-1's typical problem is 'shutter squeal' which can be fixed fairly easily. (A drop of oil does the job - the trick is getting it on target.) The metering system isn't nearly as fancy as the T90's, but works well enough, particularly for print or B/W film.

<br><br>

Although a bit homely, the T-70 is actually a rather capable camera. It lacks aperture priority AE, but adds zero-battery-drain long exposure. They tend to be real cheap...

[pmind]

<p>A-1</p>

[sfcole]

<p>"The Canon F-1 itself also gives you mirror lockup"<br>

Not the latest version.</p>