Beginner with a r4s

[ross_goode]

Hello,

My first post on the forum! Exciting stuff ha.

I recently aquired a Leica R4s and have not purchased a lens yet. Being a complete beginner on the subject of photography I purchased

Andrew Matheson's book "Leica reflex practice R5 to R3". I am absorbing as best I can but my limited knowledge of photography in

general isn't helping.

I like the idea of starting on a film camera and "street photography". Could any more knowledgeable users point me in the right direction

of books to read and a lense to purchase for my R4S body. I looked at the summicron-R 50mm ? But I have no idea how it differs from

other R type lenses and I am also on a tight budget.

 

Thank you in advance for any help :)<div></div>

[gus_gus1]

<p>The summicron-r 50 mm, F2 would be my choice for a first lens. I think Keh camera has a couple on stock. What ever lens you buy get the best condition lens that you can afford. Stay away from the beaters. Three companies that I have dealt with and had no problems are Keh camera, B and H photo and Classic Connections in Ct. Another first lens that some would consider is the summicron-r 35mm, F2. Lots of luck and have fun. Gus.</p>

[ken_jeanette1]

<p>Ross, Gus' recommendation of a 35 for street photography is a very good choice. You want slightly more coverage on the street, and you can always crop the final prints. My suggestion for a less expensive alternative to Leica glass is Tamron Adaptall. I use several Adaptall zooms with my R4 units, and their performance is great. The down side of that is the Leica mount for Adaptall are very scarce. If you are patient, they can be found. My suggestion would be to look for and purchase the mount first. Then once you know you have the mount in hand, you can pick your choice of lenses to match.</p>

[ken_jeanette1]

<p>I forgot to mention that if you wanted to switch to some other system after the R4s, all you do is buy additional mounts. </p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>None of the mentioned Sumicrons is "wrong". I never used Leica R so I have no opinion on beater lenses there. With Leica M they seem quite OK to me. I want the image not an "investment" for potential resale and I am beating my gear up myself. My usual advice to beginners would be "Pick a pair of inexpnsive zooms first and find out which primes you'll end wanting" doesn't work well with Leica R, where only decades old Tamron adapt all lenses fall into that category. - It might be cheaper to do that experience with another camera. - Anything inexpensive is fine.<br>

Here I have 2 copies of a Tamron 70 -210 f3.5 and one 90mm f2.4 macro which I file under "not great", Thats why I am not recommending to use them with Leica R, where the native primes are sometimes really outstandingly good.</p>

[SCL]

<p>Your R4s can normally use (mount and meter) any R lens which has a 3 cam, R-only, or ROM mounting. It can use a 1 cam or 2 cam lens with stop down metering. I strongly suggest you get a 3 cam version as that is the most common. There is a ton of information on the web about Leica R lenses, as well as lots of books. The most detailed book is the super expensive Leica Compendium, by Erwin Puts. However, he put an early 2000s version online free several years ago--without any of the diagrams or charts - it is very technical but a great reference on all Leica camera lenses. I don't have a link, but know it is still out there. FWIW, a tight budget and Leica lenses aren't mutually compatible, Leica lenses are generally much more expensive than their counterparts by other manufacturers. I know from experience, having owned an SL, SL2, R3 and R8 over the years; but their quality, both optical and mechanical is generally superb. If your camera body works fine, you're lucky...most bodies of its vintage need a CLA (cleaning, lube & adjustment) or the light seals replaced, and often the meter adjusted to accommodate presently available batteries.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>FWIW, a tight budget and Leica lenses aren't mutually compatible</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I second that statement - there are better and cheaper alternatives galore. But anyway, here it goes for Leica options: keh currently has a few zooms - at the higher end a 35-70/4 for a little over $1000 (Kyocera-built with Leica optics and mechanics), and two versions of the 28-70 - the older Sigma-built (Sigma optics and mechanics) for around $440 and the newer Kyocera-built (ROM, Sigma optics, Leica mechanics) for around $650. There's also a 35-70/3.5 - which is an old Minolta design - price is about the same as for the first version of the 28-70. Except for the first one, prices are at the same level as already suggested 35mm and 50mm lenses. Best bang for the buck if you are indeed considering any of these zooms IMO is the ROM-version 28-70.</p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>Yes, you need a 50mm Summicron-R. Unfortunately nothing Leica is very cheap (excepting some older screw mount cameras). The 50mm and 90mm Summicrons are probably the best deal you can get in the R line and they are lovely lenses. As stated above you will need 3-cam, ROM, or 3rd ® cam lens to give you full capability with the R4s. I would avoid a ROM lens as you will be paying extra for this and it gives you nothing extra in capabilities (it is for the R8 and R9). You can buy a single or 2-cam lens, but I would not advise it really. There are 2 versions of the 50mm Summicron. The first version has a detacheable lens hood and only comes natively up to 2-cams (although there are some that have been converted to have the third cam). It has an older looking design and does not take a regular screw in filter. The second version is a little better wide open and has a built in lens hood - much better in my opinion. It is also lighter and takes a 55mm filter. These come in 3-cam, 3rd cam ® and ROM. They are usually a little more expensive, but not necessarily so. I'd pick up a "beater" version if I were you as it will save you $$$. There is only one 90mm Summicron and it dates from 1970, so the only thing you need to look out for is how many cams it has.</p>

<p>Another 90mm option is the 90mm Elmarit 1st version. This may cost less than a Summicron as it is a stop slower (f2.8 vs f2). It's an excellent lens, but personally, given that it is the same size and weight as a Summicron but is slower, I'd always go for the Summicron.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>Yes, you need a 50mm Summicron-R.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry, but that's bad advice IMHO - I never <strong><em>needed</em></strong> a 50 in my life for anything! Just because 50mm is considered "normal" for the 35mm film format doesn't mean that one must have one. In fact, after trying to make use of a 50 for many years, I finally gave up and sold mine. For me it always has been the focal length that's either too short or too long - and rarely ever the one that fitted the situation at hand. For others, it might be the perfect focal length for everything - for me, it was the perfect one for nothing. In particular for street photography and as a beginner, I would want a zoom (ideally with a 28-90 range) until I am able to find out what my preferred focal lenght(s) is or are.</p>

<p>Several Tamron Adaptall II adapters are currently available on ebay - usually between $100 and $150. Have a look at the http://www.adaptall-2.org/ website for information on lenses; in particular the higher-end SP ones. I owned the 24/2.5 for quite some time and found it to be excellent. Might be the best route for someone on a budget. </p>

<p>A bit hesitant to add that I would rethink my choice of camera - and possibly the medium as well - in particular for street photography. There are excellent small digital cameras available that serve that purpose very well and are better suited for someone with a tight budget. But that's a whole different story.</p>

[nick_baker]

<p>I would only recommend Leica lenses for an R4. Otherwise sell the body and use Tamron lenses on a much cheaper body from any other brand.<br>

I've found the 35mm f2.8 elmarit-R to be a very good lens</p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>Books to read: Hit your local library and sponge what they have, photography related. If one author doesn't do it for you, (Hedgecoe & Feininger don't for me), try others. <br>

Even a book "Happysnapping with the Exa system" from the late 50s / early 60s might hold something or settle something else you read in your current one.<br>

Grab a few about wet darkroom work too. - You'll need one dealing with Ilford Multigrade and another about darkroom in general (can be earlier). I am torn about recommending Ansel Adams' trilogy. - I love (& even<em> own)</em> it but it is dangerous... might lure you away towards large format work.<br>

Books in your shelf don't do anything, books in your brain do. And if they didn't make it there, they weren't good enough.<br>

Last word on Tamron: figure out when you might be able to afford 35mm & 90mm R lenses. Until then shoot a zoom on a cheapo camera bodies really don't matter much.</p>

[Robin Smith]

<blockquote>

<p>I would only recommend Leica lenses for an R4. Otherwise sell the body and use Tamron lenses on a much cheaper body from any other brand.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I tend to agree. That is why I did not mention the Sigma or Minolta rebadged zooms.</p>

[ross_goode]

Any recommendations on a cheap film camera body and a tamron lense? I don't think I can justify the price for a good R

lense at the moment. Maybe a Minolta body?

 

Thank you all for your feedback!

[jason]

<p>I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Leica R4 is less than perfect.<br>

Derived from altered Minolta's: electronics not a plus for German manufacture.<br>

The cameras give trouble, lenses have to have a certain number of cams..<br>

Any good and reliable SLR from Canon, Minolta, Pentax and Nikon would be better.<br>

Lenses are reasonable or downright bargains.<br>

Mechanical cameras are great.<br>

I have last few weeks been given a Spotmatic(no meter), Canon Ae-1 Black(mint new),<br>

Canon EOS which req. a massive battery and equal price tag.<br>

If you can find a cheap lens in R mount give it a try..but getting something else better.<br>

I have worked with Leica R series and have friends who have them still.<br>

One question, "Why?".</p>

[dhbebb]

<p>The Leica R4 is a perfectly workable camera, provided that the electronics (known to be a little fragile) are in working order. However, I would say that the main attraction of any Leica R camera is the use of genuine Leica lenses, and this is where the trouble starts.<br>

Several years ago, I was attracted by the fact that Leica R3 cameras in particular were very cheap and bought several examples, paying in each case £125 to 150 for a camera, very often from Germany (which generally needed a minor servicing) and a 50 mm Summicron lens. Leica purists dismiss the R3 as a Minolta development, which it is, but it is still a good camera to use. Nowadays, however, the Leica R lenses have become popular for use on digital cameras via adapters and cost around three times what I was paying.<br>

Tamron lenses are indeed a possibility, but there is no 50 mm or 35mm prime available. Also, as others have said, the adapters are getting hard to find. The cheapest high-quality film SLR which I know is the Minolta SRT 101 and its close relatives – the bodies are available for peanuts, even the 50 mm f1.4 lens is available for a reasonable cost. Another personal favourite of mine among film SLRs is the Nikon F3. To sum up, if you have a Leica R4, there's no reason not to use it – equally, there is no real reason to buy one.</p>

[stan_blevins]

<p>Back to your original question. You have a Leica R4s. I used one some years ago and enjoyed it a great deal. You don't need to change to another camera if it is working well. You are interested in street photography but cannot afford to spend a lot. Understandable. A good focal length is 35mm and the 35mm f2.8 Elmarit-R (previously mentioned) is an excellent lens and affordable as Leica R lenses go. For a little more money a 28mm f2.8 Elmarit-R is also nice. Be sure you get a 3-Cam lens. In spite of it's many detractors, I think you will enjoy the R4s and using Leica glass. Best wishes.</p>

[anthony_brookes5]

The R4s was a first class camera.I used mine with a 50mm R Summicron a combination which could produce the finest images.

There was trouble with the light seal around the film type window with some people but I never had any trouble with my R4, R4s, or R5. the R4s was I think the best of the three. It is a delightful small compact SLR. You should enjoy it.

[rjm photo]

<p>I bought a 3 cam 50mm Summicron R to use on my Nikon D700. It is one of the finest lenses I have ever used. Get one and when you decide to move to something else from the R4 you can use the Summicron R by changing the mount.</p>

[wendell_kelly]

<p>My comments here are much like those of the contributors who have preceded me.<br>

The Leica 4, 4s, and 5 camera bodies are/were competent, usable cameras, but rather ordinary for their time given what else the world offered. What would make a Leica R of this period special would be if it was equipped with a Leitz lens.<br>

I have several R4s; two of them function "as new" and the third has defied repair (by the best of the best, I might add). When I'd like to use an automatic Leica, an R4, with a Summicron, is the one that I choose. When I'm not going automatic with a SLR, my favorite is a Leicaflex Standard with a 50mm Summicron or 90mm Elmarit.<br>

If you'd like to see what a Leica (SLR or otherwise) can do, then I suggest that you get a Summicron for your new camera when circumstances and finances permit you to do so.<br>

I realize that I'm about to espouse heresy here, but if you were to use non-Leitz glass on your camera, I doubt very much that your results would be different had you used a (something other than) Leica camera body. These days, one can buy a Pentax Spotmatic with an f1.4 or f 2 Takumar for the price of a Leica lenscap and the Spotmatic with its native lens will not disappoint you. Hendrickson in Tennessee (check the web) is offering a Spotmatic CLA for US$63 these days).</p>

<p>Good light and good shooting.</p>