I Need A Job

[newmurph]

<p>As the title says, I need a new job. I want a career geared toward my hobby and what I went to school for. The catch is that I after 5 year of school as a Visual Journalism major, I don't have a degree. With my increasingly poor grades and absurd dept, I thought it would be wise to "drop out" before being put on academic probation and not be not allowed back for a period of time. That time has passed, the debt has accrued interest. I pay off my debt and a little then some every month, but it is chipping ice cubes off a glacier.<br>

<br />I know I've screwed myself. I can't deny it. I've had job interviews where they've asked me, "why did you drop out?" I didn't get those jobs.</p>

<p>I just want a better job than I have now that is geared toward my hobby. Photo developer at CVS, photographer assistant, paid internship, whatever. I have no idea where to start. </p>

<p>What jobs can a guy like me get, with 5 years of college and no degree?</p>

[dave_s]

<p>(i) Some people here have rough edges, and they may not be kind to you. You are forewarned.</p>

<p>(ii) If you were my kid, I would recommend you get a trade, like a real trade. Become a plumber, or an electrician, or an oilfield roughneck. Get a good job that will pay off the debts. </p>

<p>(iii) With the money you make in your day job, enjoy photography in your spare time, like most of the rest of us here.</p>

[colin carron]

<p>What would you say your strengths are? What are you good at? For example, are you good with people?</p>

[jordan2240]

<p>Matt,</p>

<p>The youngest of my children is a 19-year-old still trying to 'find himself.' I'm 54 and planning to retire from a govt. position next year, which was never anything other than a job. I suppose I'm still trying to 'find myself' as well. Point is, you aren't alone, but you do need to be honest about your best course of action. Perhaps, as Dave suggests, photography isn't something that can pay the bills, but that you can continue to enjoy as a hobby and eventually make some money in (even if that just involves selling prints at art/craft shows). I'm all for following dreams, but I also think it's wise to be practical about how you go about it. Of course, there are people who have had great success after literally being homeless for years in pursuit of their dreams.</p>

<p>That said, I'm not sure how many full-time photo-processing jobs are left, but you might try getting into a lab at Walmart or one of the warehouse clubs like Costco. If you are asked why you have five years of college and no degree, tell them you became more interested in learning through real-world experience than classroom experience, and were finding it increasingly difficult to dedicate yourself to the academics. Good Luck.</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>Have you thought about becoming a wedding photographer ? If you have the equipment and the skills, you might be able to get a job at a studio as a wedding photographer trainee, or photographer assistant. Since weddings are mostly held on weekends you can get any type of job that will pay the bills, hopefully one that is related to your hobby. </p>

[James G. Dainis]

Photography is a trade like plumbing or carpentry. Most plumbers or carpenters don't go to school to get a degree in engineering. Most photographers don't have degrees in visual arts or whatever. Successful ones may have taken valuable business courses. But most learn by serving or working with a photographer who is in the business and can teach the ins and outs of maintaining a successful photo business. Wedding photography would be one place to start as a second shooter, gofer, heavy gear carrier to learn that trade. Most traditional photo jobs are being eliminated due to technology. Newspapers are releasing their photographers as the reporters can take any needed photos with their iPhones. Stock photo agencies once paid several hundred dollars for each photo used but now on line stock photo services pay only a few dollars.

[lex_jenkins]

<p>The job market for creative types has always been extremely tight and nowadays it's practically non-existent. It's difficult for a creative type with a degree or at least some academic training in their creative field to find a job even remotely related to that field.</p>

<p>There's an old joke that goes "What do you call a musician without a girlfriend? Homeless." The corollary would apply to most creative types.</p>

<p>Most creative types I know personally who have jobs even remotely related to their fields work in variations of communications, marketing, advertising, fund raising and administrative jobs. These are actors, dancers, musicians, etc., working for arts organizations, media outlets, etc. And these jobs exist only when the economy is healthy. When the economy is in a slump, or when the public perceives the arts as worthless or secondary to (<em>fill in pet peeve/concern here</em>), funding dries up and jobs vanish for marketing, grant writers, etc. Most creative types I know who have degrees are working jobs totally unrelated to their creative dreams. They pursue creative endeavors on the side to stay sane. Once upon a time creative types would stay in school long enough to get an MFA, which helped give them an edge in teaching jobs. No more, however. Even MFAs struggle to find regular teaching gigs that pay better than minimum wage.</p>

<p>One of my friends is a professional artist and used to earn part of his living as a courtroom artist. His work is significant enough that his collection has been accepted by the Library of Congress. But local/regional journalism has declined, the daily newspaper is barely active, and the few court cases that get any attention are photographed now - sound blimps, silent cameras with electronic shutters and videos with still frames pulled for illustrations have replaced the courtroom sketch artist in most venues (the US Supreme Court being a notable exception). My friend's main job now is as a security guard to pay the bills.</p>

<p>And another of my friends who used to earn a good living as a technical and copy writer for various companies and freelancing has mostly worked as a security guard the past several years.</p>

<p>I was a journalism major in the 1980s. I didn't finish my degree but did work as a newspaper reporter/photographer for a few years for various rural weeklies and a couple of pretty good dailies. I loved the job but it wasn't paying the bills and I finally had to get a "real" job. I went to work for the government in various positions that were related to my journalism background. The salaries were adequate and I could afford health insurance.</p>

<p>Many journalism majors I know personally went into various communications oriented professions - mostly marketing and advertising. Some went into speech writing and political consultation - pretty much the same thing as marketing and advertising. I know of one fellow who had been a professional journalist, became a cop, was promoted to detective, and eventually ended up as police department public relations liaison - the best I'd known. He later went to work as a communications director for a major corporation.</p>

<p>Nowadays journalism jobs are practically non-existent. Freelance writing doesn't pay much either. Many folks are overjoyed to see their names attached to bylines and work for free. Journalism and paid freelance writing have become all-in-or-all-out pursuits. Paying gigs demand some niche or specialty expertise, not merely the ability to write well and report accurately.</p>

<p>Before I dropped out of college in my junior year I asked some professional journalists whether they believed the degree was really necessary. Most didn't. But the degree demonstrated tenacity, the determination to finish a difficult project. It also demonstrated a devotion and dedication to a field that some members regard as nearly sacred. They want true believers in their church, not Easter bonnet and Christmas visitors. When I dropped out of college I found myself marginalized by former colleagues. And when I left journalism completely to get a regular job, I lost those acquaintances completely. Journalism is a very cliquish field and you're either all in or all out, no in betweens.</p>

<p>That's why some job interviewers ask those hard questions. They aren't necessarily concerned about the degree. But your answer may indicate a pattern of not finishing difficult tasks on time, or quitting when things get rough. If you want a job in a challenging and somewhat creative endeavor nowadays it will probably involved 6-18 months of intensive effort, much longer than 40 hours a week, much of it off the clock and either unpaid or with unconventional compensation. Those job interviewers will be looking for indicators of someone with the drive and energy to devote to an intensive effort.</p>

[newmurph]

<p>Excellent response, Lex. It gives me hope.</p>

<p>Perhaps, given the job market related to my hobby and my major, dropping out wasn't as bad an idea as I thought. Probably still not a great idea, but it sounds like it is not the end of my employment world.</p>

<p>I currently work for UPS as a package handler. I fill a 53 foot long truck with ~1,300, 15 - 70 lb packages. Some packages weigh nothing and some weigh up to 200lbs. It is the antithesis to photography. There is an extremely high turn-over rate here when it comes to anyone not management or a driver. Just last night 4 guys quit, and this month about 20 have quit total, just on the outbound. I hope that the fact I've been working this job for 3 years so far counts for something when it comes to displaying dedication and hard-work, since I can't do that with a lack of a degree.</p>

[ken_kuzenski]

<p>One big "thumbs up!" to Lex for his helpful message. True, true, very true. My wife is in theatre; she has been very lucky to be able to get related work most of the 30 years we've been married--teaching, mostly. A great many of our friends are artists, and most of them either have a day job or a spouse with a good day job. Making a living in the arts has always been tough, but I think it's never been tougher than now. And if you're sincere about making a living with art, you're going to have to work at it MUCH harder than if you had any normal sort of day job. :-) The brother of a friend of mine makes a living in art; a few years ago he got a third "adjunct" appointment at a local university. I congratulated him, and he said, "Yeah, I'm on the faculty at three universities but I still don't have health insurance." Good luck, Matt--you CAN make a living with art, if you're willing to work darned hard at it. As others have suggested, I suspect business and marketing are going to be at least as important to your success as your artistic ability. Me, I've never tried it--my art, such as it is, is for MY pleasure, and if anybody else likes it, I'm pleasantly surprised. ;-) GL! --ken</p>

[MichaelChang]

<p>For every starving artist, there is a highly creative and experienced aerospace engineer, automotive engineer, technology professional, biologist, physicist and chemist who became the unfortunate victim of "staff reduction". Within those professions are many creative too-smart-for-school types who struggle to enter the field driven by passion. </p>

<p>It's not unique to photography or the arts. We are all faced with the same challenges of the shifting marketplace and our technology-enabled reality has rewritten the book on what it takes to make it, for everyone, without exception. <br>

<br>

These days, "wanting a career geared toward my hobby and what I went to school for" is a luxury few are able to enjoy, and often those careers won't measure up to what one once imagined; there are as many disillusioned artists as there are physicians, attorneys or engineers. <br>

<br>

I don't have an answer to Matt's question, but I can share the story of a friend who was once an aviation executive, been in the business since he was 16 with his private pilot's licence, and after nearly 40 years became a casualty of an industry meltdown caused by the recession. His age, experience, and pay scale made him unemployable, so what did he do? Well, having a love for home improvement projects, he became a kitchen tiler placing ads on Craigslist and now making more money than he did in aviation, and he loves it. <br>

<br>

I don't know that anyone can offer more than encouraging words, and the exact road map for anyone in a similar position will call on a level of creativity beyond what their hobby demands in order to think through the challenges and solve it.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Matt, I can definitely relate to your experience. When I was younger and stronger I worked part time for a freight company loading and unloading big rig trucks - it was an exhausting job, hot in the summer and insanely busy this time of year with Christmas coming up. My main job was working for the federal government as a safety inspector, but I was a trainee and very low on the pay scale.</p>

<p>At the same time I was also active in local theater. At one particular point I was acting in one play in Fort Worth, while also directing a play in Grapevine (about 20 miles to the north), commuting to the Mid-Cities Mon-Fri for my regular job which often involved out of town travel, and working on the freight dock weekends. Looking back now that schedule seems insane. But I was in my early 30s, in excellent physical condition and always had energy to burn. Now, 20 years later and in poor health, there's no way I could handle even half that schedule. But I'm glad it did it while I had the energy. It was an important time in terms of shaping me as an artist.</p>

<p>I'm not sure that I'd have experienced as much growth if I'd been able to skip the part time job on the freight dock, or to make a comfortable living doing only journalism. Transitioning from journalism toward creative writing and visual arts came about at the same time I'd lost my last job as a reporter and coincidentally got reacquainted with one of my first editors, who was doing her first theater play. It opened me up to possibilities for creative growth. But I still had to work regular jobs that weren't always fulfilling in order to indulge that passion for creative arts in theater and photography.</p>

[bob_bill]

<p>Met a lady that I think has the best chance of making it as a photographer. Finished her mba recently then picked up a camera for the first time. She is already inspecting alternatives to "art" photography, but instead photography that makes money for the likes of the mall folks. Photography will be a business for her, run like a business, not an artist barely running a business that is doomed for failure. </p>

[James G. Dainis]

There are two kinds of photography. One is where it is a job or trade and the other where it is an artistic endeavor. Most of us who deal with the artistic side of photography indulge in that to our heart's content while maintaining a normal bringing home the bacon job. When photography is a job that usually means working for someone else either as a paid employee or as a contractor to deliver desired results. Some artists can get connected with a gallery to display and sell photos or set ups in one's own gallery or flea market. What makes one successful with that? Who knows? Fate? Why does a selfie of Cindy Sherman lying on the floor sell for $3.9 million. I've got a lot of selfies that I would sell for one half as much, but no takers..

[newmurph]

<p>Ah, man, James. I can't stand Cindy Sherman. I had a professor that loved her. That professor had also just got back from doing a photo journalism thing in Afghanistan. Both of these things are probably why I could never please her with my work. There was also the fact that I broke my hand near the end of the semester, and you can't really operate a camera with one hand. Oh well. I did still get a B+ in that class.</p>

[mark_pierlot]

<blockquote>

<p>I can't stand Cindy Sherman.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>She's unquestionably the most overrated living photographer. Perhaps, as the adage goes, her work is so bad it's good.</p>

[GerrySiegel]

Well, it is always hard to give career advice from one's own experience. Why, because the job market has changed and is still in flux. So when some lad's uncle asks " Hey Gerry, you were in human resources,( in the last century!) what would you do if you were this kid's kin to help him?" I usually come up with as they say the usual suspects and stride off as soon as I can. Why, partly because there is always a subtext that is not obvious. I am not hinting at anything about you Matt, but I would, as an employer want to know more about your history both in school and with UPS and other various jobs. Do you have the grit to stick to a task, to start at the bottom rung, to take direction, and do you have a portfolio of material that shows talent above the norm? Why did you spend five years getting stinking grades and then drop out before they deep sixed you? As the philosophers say " Know thyself. Sure, we all fudge up as sophomores in a field. My grades in Organic Chemistry were so bad I slipped out of the idea of becoming a chemist. Photography does not rely so much on credentials or courses. Professionals will usually say don't go into hock for the credentials but take a few good workshops. Others whom I know have never taken a workshop but have a je ne sait quoi. Maybe it is a sales talent. A people talent. A research talent. Let me offer an example. My wife hired a local landscaper to create a little rock and plant garden in front- location which was a weed patch. This fellow has a creative talent which could be parallel to that which a talented photographer has. But also has the grit to work in hot sun and dirty soil and stretched back muscles. Bottom line is he makes a living outdoors. Outdoors is what he likes. My father in law drove a truck and refused better pay jobs that were behind a desk......

This answer is mostly questions not ideas. Know yourself better is a good goal. Or maybe take a job to pay the latte bill until you find a match. It is not easy. I think like others that photography as a full time career now is a tough slog. But if you are persistent and like pain, keep trying to break in...how I leave to those that know more about it. Weddings have quite a few who will do a job for peanuts here in Hawaii. And the results show it but people are spending less on weddings. The economy stupid as Clinton advisor said still prevails. I do wish you well, Matt. Life is a trek for most of us--- along Himalayan trails at times. Good luck and keep trekking and you will find your niche.

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>Matt, I can relate to your predicament even as a 55 year old.</p>

<p>I quit one year in on a 2 year Associates Degree program back in the early '80's at one of the first in my state of Texas's Design School's Art Institute of Houston (the ones you now see commercials for) mainly because I was home sick but also because the fact they didn't upgrade their curriculum and staff from their former owner's "Houston School of Commercial Art". We were all being taught by bohemian styled fine art instructors with no graphics and commercial press experience.</p>

<p>To offer some help I'ld suggest you look into Indeed.com. It's the Google of job searches with automatic daily email alerts of jobs posted online from a wide variety of online databases. I signed up after I was alerted for the first time to Indeed by my GMX email upgrading their interface and just entered my town's name and all jobs that pop up within 5 miles in their automatic searches. I get approximately 15 individual job alerts a day that include baby sitting gigs, janitor jobs, private business, corporate and government jobs. It beats my local newspaper's classifieds every day.</p><div></div>

[purplealien]

<blockquote>

<p>I currently work for UPS as a package handler<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Matt<br>

<br>

UPS is a massive company. Judging from the material I am exposed to in the UK, they must be producing (or commissioning) countless images. Have you tried befriending somebody in the marketing department? Why not use the advantage you have - you are already an employee. Try the internal e-mail system or maybe even take a few days off and travel up to head office.</p>

<p>There are no shortcuts or direct routes into dream jobs I'm afraid. Be polite, friendly and gently persistent. You may need to offer to help out carrying bags in your spare time. Show them how keen you are. If you can talk yourself into even a very junior role in the right department, or be allowed to help out once in a while your professional network will improve dramatically and in time if you work hard more exciting opportunities will come. Eventually when you leave you'll have some work experience that is more relevant to what you want to do long term. <br>

<br>

I went to work on a rubbish dump when I left college to earn money to travel. When I returned it was that experience that made me better than the other candidates and landed me my first job in Environmental Regulation (which became my career). If you can use your current employers to gain at least some relevant experience, it will really help you when you move on.<br>

<br>

Best of luck<br>

<br>

Chris<br>

<br>

<br>

</p>

 

[robinpeeples]

<p>The more stuff you put on your resume between the current moment and dropping out, the less important that blip will be. Depending on the path you choose, you may eventually find that you need to finish your degree to get to a certain level, but I don't think you're totally "screwed" right now.</p>

<p>As a person who does "creative" work, I want to mention two things:</p>

<ul>

<li>Many people/businesses/etc don't want (or don't think they need) to hire people specifically to do creative work, but if you bring those skills to the table while also being able to do the job they're hiring for, you will most likely be called on to use them. Sometimes this means they'll overwork or take advantage of you (and you have to watch out for that), but sometimes it means you can eventually carve out a new position for yourself that uses the skills you really value. Either way, you're getting resume-ready professional experience using those skills that might help you get the next, better gig. Getting into an office job doing WHATEVER (data entry, being an assistant to an assistant, interning) is a decent start.<br /><br /></li>

<li>"Creative" people are often expected to be jacks of all trades, and you might get more traction if you can claim some basic expertise in another discipline (like graphic design, basic html/css, copywriting, marketing, etc).</li>

</ul>

<p>You might check out what positions are open at local universities. Once you're in a system like that (no matter the position), it can give you access to a lot of new opportunities. They often have programs where employees can work on their own degrees for free or discounted.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>