All PC Savants Please Weigh In On My New Build

[randy_myers3]

<p>Hello,<br>

I'm limping along on a 7 year old PC. It's been a real work horse but here of late it's just about ready for the glue factory.<br /><br />I have an acquaintance who is the IT guy for a huge corporation. He is so in love with this stuff though that he does extra work on the side. I am pretty much PC illiterate in regards to the hardware so recently I've been reading a lot here and elsewhere about new builds for Photoshop. I'm using CS 5 at this point but will be moving on to CC as soon as my new PC is built. I got together with this guy and with my notes in hand, we had a discussion about the new build. The attached image has the parts list and prices.<br /><br />If you are so inclined, please look over the list and tell me anything that you think is not quite enough or on the other hand anything that seems like overkill. If there is a significantly less expensive part, that I could substitute WITHOUT loosing anything in the way of speed and functionality, let me know. If there is something that just seems WAY wrong, let me know about that also. Basically anything that you think would be beneficial for me to know before I buy the parts. Please only weigh in if you consider yourself pretty much an expert in this area.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[joe_dempsey]

<p>I am having one built with the same processor. I have had one built in a mid-tower case and my present one in a full tower. The full tower runs cooler. Also 16 gb of ram with today's software is entry-level. 32 will probably be better. I am going with 64 in my new machine because I work routinely work on 500 mb files and up.<br>

Good luck,<br>

Joe</p>

 

[randy_myers3]

<p>Thanks Joe,</p>

<p>For you and anybody else that helps, there is an alternative graphics cards at the bottom of the list. Any opinions on one over the other or any of them in general. My main concern is being able to make full use of all of the new and more taxing updates in CS 6 and or CC.</p>

 

[joe_dempsey]

<p>I put a video card question similar to yours on the Photoshop forum last November. Here's the question and some of the responses. <em>(back then I was thinking 32 gig ram but have since mended my thinking)</em><br>

I figure this may be off-topic for this board, but perhaps someone can steer me to a forum where this question would be welcome. After the first of the year I will have a new custom PC built the processor will be an Intel Cor i7 5930 / 3.7 with 32 gig ram. The majority of my work is with Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Dreamweaver and I am dabbling with Premier Pro and After Effects hoping to move in that direction in 2015. My question is what will be the best all-around alternative video cards for this setup and this machine and the work I will do?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Joe<br /><br /><a href="http://robertoblake.com/blog/2014/01/best-video-graphics-card-photoshop/">http://robertoblake.com/blog/2014/01/best-video-graphics-card-photoshop/</a><br /><a href="http://robertoblake.com/blog/2014/11/building-ultimate-photoshop-cc-computer-pc-version/">http://robertoblake.com/blog/2014/11/building-ultimate-photoshop-cc-computer-pc-version/</a><br /><a href="http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/">http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/</a></p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>Please only weigh in if you consider yourself pretty much an expert in this area.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, that's not me - but allow me a question anyway. Are the two 2TB WD reds purely for storage? If not, I suggest to look into WD Blacks instead. Also, a second small solid-state drive for photoshop to use as a scratch disc might be beneficial. I assume you use the big solid-state drive for OS and programs only - or is it your work disc for photo processing too? </p>

[johnkenthill]

<p>I think you'll be plenty happy with that. There's always more you can do (more money to spend). That machine will smoke and you will be quite pleased with it. </p>

[EricM]

<blockquote>

<p>If there is something that just seems WAY wrong, let me know about that also.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I think you should look for the local 15 year old gamer geek to build your computer, not this IT guy. Something is amiss if you are spending $2200 on parts and only ending up with 16gb of ram. That cpu is overkill. like, way overkill. You sound like a PS user so your machine should be built around lots of ram and fast ssd's, not slow red drives and a $600 6 core/12 threads cpu's that PS can't use. I'd drop down to i7 4790K and overclock to 4.4ghz. I have this Corsair case that you've listed, it's gorgeous, and the water cooling unit from Corsair that is made for this case, is fantastic. Overclock or not, I strongly suggest spending the $100 a wc unit and using it over air. But for $2200, you should end up with at least 32gb of ram, and two Samsung Evo ssds. For storage, I'd look at the new 6TB Red drive instead of 2 x 2TB Red drives.</p>

<p> </p>

[Mary Doo]

<p>For your reference and comparison (it's important to read the reviews):</p>

<p>I ordered a desktop about 3 years ago from <a href="http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/category/intel_pc/">CyperPowerPC</a> (one of their higher-end AMD systems custom-configured with 32GB ram and two 2TB drives mirrored) and it is still very fast. The only thing I have replaced (last year) was their 256GB solid state drive with a 1TB solid state.</p>

<p>Also, have you considered getting a really good monitor or two (side by side)?</p>

<p> </p>

[steven_clark]

<p>I'm not convinced Photoshop will make enough use of cores 5 and 6 to be worth the cost of that processor. Coding for more than a few cores is still a very hard thing and almost nothing but scientific computation makes full use of everything you throw at it. If you can fit enough ram into it you might just go with a z97 board with a 4790k. (it actually performs slightly better in some PS benchmarks). Also that case is overkill, you could fit all that in a Carbide 200r and still be swimming in space. Samsung SSD's I've noticed seem to cost more than other high-end SSDs to a probably unwarranted degree. The Crucial mx100 SSD is a value-oriented part that competes pretty favorably with high-end parts, you could get a 512GB model and still shave $100 off that price. An AMD R9 290 or 290x probably performs slightly better at the parts of Photoshop where a GPU makes a difference, because AMD consumer cards historically perform better for compute purposes(less gimped to drive pro card sales). You have two mice on their for some reason (one comes with the keyboard), and there's quite a bit of cost with them being wireless. Unless mouse cords, really, annoy you I don't think they're worth it for a desktop(but a nice tactile keyboard might be worth it). I really encourage anybody to buy a keyboard at a store so they can try the feel. I found some of the low-end Logitechs actually have a nice tactile bump to the keys that I like even if I might end up replacing them if they wear smooth.</p>

<p>What you've specced out here is a great bragging rights hotrod, but I bet I could shave off at LEAST $500 in fat off that with either little performance sacrificed or maybe even some gained. Now if you are having system builder do this for you you might not get the degree of choice I would by picking parts off Newegg.</p>

<p>Here's an example Newegg system for your case:<br>

<img src="https://s3.amazonaws.com/stevenclarkshared/PS+Comp+Estimate.png" alt="" /></p>

[User_6502147]

<p>I'm not a gamer, so this may not apply to you. I bought Acer i7 and had the shop (Fry's) install max memory, which resulted with 32GB. I use mostly external hard drives, so even if the machine came with 1/4th of the space (1T) I'd have been OK with it. Plus, I have balance of USB 3 and 2's. My rig ended up costing around $1000 less than what you are planning.</p>

<p>One thing I learned over the years, have extra fans installed to keep everything cool.</p>

<p>Les</p>

[brad_smith8]

<p>I build my own PC's and ones for others. My latest desktop build for myself is the previous six-core processor (4930K) with 16GB, a single SSD for programs, scratch etc. and two disks in RAID0 for data (I like fast access to my stuff), and Photoshop just flies. I don't know about Photoshop using six cores, but there are plugins that do. PTLens (geometry) is one. It runs smooth as butter.<br /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/dBAKfUc.jpg" alt="" width="737" height="436" /></p>

[brad_smith8]

<p>Also I have a RAM usage meter on my keyboard's LCD and it never gets close to using 16GB no matter what I do on the PC.</p>

[philfx]

<p>I build my own, and I use PS/LR daily.<br>

I like wired, and I would get a Logitech G500 or one that you can spped up the mouse and slow it down for fine tune edits.<br>

6Core may help if you do any LRoom work. If you have the $, why limit yourself. You used the same rig for 7years! So might as well.<br>

I agree with another, get all the ram you can for those large layered files before it hits scratch.<br />Get 2 SSD's. Large for OS, and a small for scratch.<br>

Watercooling I like(and need for my usage), but if your ambient temp is controlled and it doesn't get hotter than 75-77max, you should be OK.</p>

<p>I store my images on NAS RAID drives for 3+1, so if a drive fails, I'm still up until I replace. If you don't have more than 2-4TB of data, a single backup would do. As mentioned try and get a internal Black WD drive for the image storage, with another external for back up.<br>

I like small and light cases...LIAN LE 90 small tower is all you need.</p>

 

[EricM]

<p>CPU. $337. Intel Core i7-4790K<br>

<br />Ram. $285. 32 GB Team Xtreme 4x8GB DDR3 2400<br>

<br />Motherboard. $220. Asus Maximus VII<br>

<br />GPU. $150. EVGA GTX 750 2GB<br>

<br />Storage C Drive. $135. SAMSUNG 250GB Solid State Drive<br>

<br />Storage D Drive. $135. SAMSUNG 250GB Solid State Drive<br>

<br />Storage E Drive $279. WD Red 6TB<br>

<br />Optical. $60. LG Black Blu-ray Burner WH16NS40<br>

<br />Case. $130. Corsair 500R<br>

<br />Water cooling. $95. Corsair Hydro Series H100i CPU Cooler<br>

<br />PSU. $140. Corsair HX Series HX750 750W<br>

<br />Keyboard/Mouse. $140. Logitech MK710 Wireless Combo<br>

<br />$2106.</p>

<p> </p>

[randy_myers3]

<p>Wow, there is a lot to absorb here.</p>

<p>Joe,<br>

Thanks for those additional links</p>

<p>Dieter,<br>

Yes, as far as "I" know, the two 2 TB drives are just for storage. Like I say, I've been reading for a while and I'm not sure where I read it but I know I've read several times that if you have enough memory, there really is no need for any more than one ssd. I think it may have actually been on the official Photoshop site that I read that. I DOES seem that I should up my ram to 32 GB though. Thanks !</p>

<p>John,<br>

Thanks</p>

<p>Eric,<br>

I don't think anything is necessarily amiss. This buy is about as honest as the day is long and about as nice as a person can possible be. I make my money as a freelance image editor. One of my very best clients was breathing down my neck and I was afraid of loosing here because my old PC had started randomly shutting down and I couldn't get any work done. Rather than put any money into my old PC, this builder set me up with a loner laptop and monitor with Photoshop already on board. He is not going to charge me ONE DIME for the use of his PC for the 2-3 weeks until the new system is built. Hard to beat THAT kind of service. I will definitely be showing him this thread though and see if we can shave some cost of without performance loss and I'm REALLY leaning towards the 32 GB of ram now. Oh, I see that you just posted a parts list. Thanks !</p>

<p>Mary,<br>

Thanks. Yes, I don't have the exact models at hand but in the running for monitors are either the Nec or the Eizo 24 inch. The ones that are around $900.00 an have there own calibration software and wide gamut although I MAY be able to be talked into a good 24 inch Dell with only sRGB gamut. Not sure yet. I was actually going to eventually make that another thread but feel free to chime in if you wish.</p>

<p>Steven,<br>

I can't thank you enough for all of that info and for your parts list. If I can save money with no loss in performance then I am all for that. I'm so used to wireless that I'm not sure I'd want to go back to being tethered again but I will MOST DEFINITELY be looking real hard at your post and parts list. Once I've absorbed some of this stuff more, I'll probably have more questions for you but at this point, I don't know enough to know what to ask. : -) As far as parts, this guy IS using Newegg a lot but he comparison shopped for each part and when with the least expensive, reputable supplier he could find for each part. THANKS AGAIN !</p>

<p>Brad,<br>

Good another vote for keeping it more simple with one ssd. My builder is also a video editor for weddings and he also said the with 16 GB of Ram that he almost never reaches it's limits. I'm pretty confused about 16 or 32. From all I've read, people seem to be split down the middle about that particular issue. Hmmmm. Does raid 0 mean your two discs are mirrored. I believe that's what my guy had mentioned.<br /><br /><br>

Phil,<br>

thanks for all of that info. My guy's comment when I brought up water cooling is that he really doesn't like the idea of having water in a PC. I don't know enough to understand what you're talking about with your drives but I will show this to my builder.</p>

<p>Les,<br>

Thanks for the tips about extra fans.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>I haven't read all replies precisely, so just a few points on the original parts list:</p>

<ul>

<li>The listed WD 2TB hard disk is a model specific for NAS, a similar 2TB WD Green drive would cost less, perform as well and have the same warranty.</li>

<li>The 850W powesupply is complete overkill. This system would run easily on a 500W PSU, and run more efficiently as a result too (I run a comparible configuration with a more modest CPU of a 520W PSU, and there is zero issue).</li>

<li>Do you want/ need Blu-Ray? If not, get a lot cheaper DVD-Writer (about $20).</li>

<li>The expensive memory and mainboard is a direct result of choosing an overly expensive CPU. I would calm down to either Core i7-4770 or Core i5-4690, combined with 32GB of DDR3 - and you would have twice the memory and saved money (more memory is always welcome, one of those things you better have too much than too little) without sacrificing a lot of speed. The Core i5 might not sound as sexy as the i7 for the IT geeks (which I tend to be), but it's more than sufficient and a good bit cheaper.<br />This move would also make your motherboard cheaper by approx. $100, and the CPU by US$250-350. The chosen CPU is really, in my view, terrible value for money.</li>

<li>On the videocards: Photoshop does make use of it, but it's a trade-off between extra noise and cost for a bit of a speed boost. Lightroom doesn't make use of a videocard at all. I would check with Adobe what their recommendation is, though - some programs use Open<strong>C</strong>L, which is a lot faster on AMD cards; others use a comparible propietary Nvidia technology, which obviously favours the Nvidia cards.</li>

</ul>

<p>I see water cooling mentioned - overkill unless you're going to overclock, which by the sound of it, you will not. And RAID - do stay away from RAID0, the speed gains aren't worth it (it's 'striping'; mirroring is RAID1, which isn't a bad idea but not without niggles either).<br>

Another last thing: a large casing as the one on your list- there is really no need anymore. I've got a configuration as yours, but with two hard disks (and a SSD) in <a href="http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=196&area=usa">a casing as this one</a>. And it's silent too, despite using the Intel-supplied standard ventilator.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Seems a good system but the price is high I think.</p>

[justthings]

I think you are spending a lot of money for something that isn't going to perform better for you than other much less expensive builds that have been suggested and

*only* gives you 16gb of RAM with all DIMM slots filled. While that's some pretty fast memory I doubt that you will really experience any significant performance

boost over lower speed sticks. My own (http://pcpartpicker.com/user/cltmaps/saved/Ydw8TW) saves nearly a $1,000 as determined by partpicker.com with few

compromises I think - and in reality, I only spent about 2/3s of that by buying pieces over a period of a couple months and taking advantage of sales. It's wicked fast

and I couldn't be more pleased. I did go go down the path of liquid cooling but I intend to tinker with some overclocking. I know there is debate about how to

configure SSDs, but I've found that even with a 256GB SSD for my OS and applications that drive is filling up so I am glad I chose to keep LR catalog and previews on

a separate drive. Also, my understanding is that LR and related apps don't necessarily take advantage of the technology that makes the difference between the i7

and i5 CPUs so other than baseline speed there is no real reason to splurge on that monster i7 if photos are your main purpose, particularly if as others suggest the

additional cores want be used by LR or PA. Minor point, but I don't understand why you are getting both a mouse and a keyboard/mouse combo - seems like you will

end up with two mice from those last two line items.

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>Re: scratch disk. Maybe things have changed, but it appears that if one uses history in photoshop, then information is written on the disk, regardless how big the memory is. Unless on establishes a RAM disk for photoshop to use as a scratch disk (which would argue for the 32GB memory solution). If you are using your 2TB disk for storage only, then I suggest to get bigger ones.</p>

[richard_george_herrmann]

<p>At its heart, Photoshop is a memory intensive application. Newer code may use GPU cores and multiple CPU cores if multi-threaded, but most is legacy code that just needs to move lots of data from the file system to RAM, from RAM to CPU, and then back.<br>

X99 is the successor to the X79. Made to move memory. Not host a graphics adapter on the same package.<br>

X99 supports 4 channel memory access (if you install RAM in matched sets of 4). I'd get the ASRock X99 Extreme3 and a set of entry level 16GB 4X4GB DDR4 RAM from Crucial. Say no to overclocking and super fast RAM. Heat is death.<br>

As to the processor choice, stick with the <<em>entry level</em>> i7-5820K. Why, you don't need extra cores or more PCIe lanes. You are not building out a multiple graphics card configuration for SLI or CF gaming.<br>

The three above items are currently 789.77 USD at newegg. Prices are slowing coming down from the launch in late 2014.<br>

Finally, an M2 ssd with PCIe lanes put into the ASRock Ultra M.2 slot is speedy. The Samsung XP941 family is certified by ASRock and can be set as the boot drive. It runs hot, so have enough ventilation. There are other M2 PCIe cards coming online this year.<br>

RAID 0 is <strong>not</strong> safe since its a striped set written across volumes. One drive fails in the array, all content gone.<br>

RAID 1 is <strong>safe </strong>since it mirrors content across the RAID volumes. Fast when reading, slower when writing.<br>

Spend money on potential bottlenecks for Adobe code.</p>

[brad_smith8]

<p>As long as you backup, RAID0 is perfectly safe. I've never had an array fail and I've been doing this a long time. Its speed over a single drive is a lot. And reading around the 'net it seems like watercooling pumps fail much more often than fans. I'm a 'fan' of keeping it simple.</p>

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

<p>500 GB or greater SSD for primary drive ©<br>

LianLi (Taiwan) for the Case - about $100 plus shipping...<br>

32GB RAM</p>

<p> </p>

[EricM]

<blockquote>

<p>Eric,<br />I don't think anything is necessarily amiss. This buy is about as honest as the day is long and about as nice as a person can possible be.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> Sorry Randy, I wasn't implying he was intentionally sending you in the wrong direction. My IT guy sounds like he is realted to yours. He's the most generous and intelligent person I know. He's able to write all sorts of code for routers and Linux and is a networking ace with an office full of computers. But if I gave him a budget of $2K to build a photoshop rig, he'd come back with a slower computer than most of what the pimply faced kids are gaming with for under $1200. <br /> <br /> I used red drives in my desktop and they are a nice "in between" drive and when I bought my synology NAS, I had a head start with already owning the reds. I'd go Black drives if you can afford it and if they are offered in the same capacity. The 6TB WD Red or Green is appealing.<br /> <br /> As some have previously mentioned, and if I was doing it over and building a computer today, I'd also go with a smaller case than the 500r. I'd even go smaller than standard atx and take it down another size and go mATX, actually. I'd build a mATX computer with a Samsung 500gb ssd drive and a 1TB WD Black drive, and then network the rest of my files on a synology nas running raid 5. It sounds like a synology 3 bay nas with 3 x 4TB red drives would suit your needs.<br /> <br /> Water cooling makes sense regardless of oc'ing or not. Having a silent computer is worth the $100 for wc imo. Less dog hair and dust too, but mostly I'm convinced that stable and consistent cpu temps are key to longevity and a smooth running computer </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>As long as you backup, RAID0 is perfectly safe. I've never had an array fail and I've been doing this a long time. Its speed over a single drive is a lot. And reading around the 'net it seems like watercooling pumps fail much more often than fans. I'm a 'fan' of keeping it simple.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I agree over raid o with Brad. I'm a fan of raid o, I've done it for ten years or more and today, it's even safer. But with a fast 500gb ssd, I don't think it's worth the trouble tbh. And in regards to wc'ing, I'm on my first water cooling unit and went with a reputable brand, Corsair. If you research the Corsair H100, failure rate is nothing to worry about.</p>

[brad_smith8]

<p>This is what I use on my 4930K:<br>

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-U14S-Sockets-Heatpipe-Cooling/dp/B00C9FLSLY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1422726076&sr=8-3&keywords=noctua+2011-3">http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-U14S-Sockets-Heatpipe-Cooling/dp/B00C9FLSLY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1422726076&sr=8-3&keywords=noctua+2011-3</a><br>

It cools really well and is silent inside my case. It's odd how much pressure you have to use on the screwdriver to get the threads started, but it was easy after that. Also on 59xx processors the edge of the CPU is exposed, which is normal:<br>

<a href="http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&lng=en&products_id=64#24">http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&lng=en&products_id=64#24</a><br>

I say, If you're going to put good money into a CPU, get the best, logical solution. I have yet to see why water is logical unless you're a big time overclocker (many air coolers can handle a healthy overclock including the above). But the whole reason to get a high-end processor is to not have to stress a cheaper one to get similar performance. Also going forward software designers seem to be embracing more cores.</p>

[richard_meyers]

<p>Some general comments:<br>

1 - Samsung 840 Pro has been discontinued. Replacement is 850 Pro.<br>

2 - That system is going to run hot which means more fans and more noise. Maybe that doesn't bother you though.<br>

3- Be sure the video card is on Adobe's recommended list. Then be sure others have used it without any problems.<br>

4 - As others have mentioned, 4 cores is about the sweet spot so you won't notice much improvement with 6.<br>

5 - Finally, I assume your friend has committed to helping you repair and maintain the computer hardware and software for the next few years. Remember you are not buying a Lexus or even a Ford but a bunch of car parts that have put together.<br>

Good luck.</p>