Is this a good price for a used D800? (Issue Resolved)

[opa_diallo1]

<p>Hi all,<br>

I wanted to buy a Nikon D800 . On the phone , the vendor told me they have demo one for $2389. He told me (exactly his word) , it's like you take a new camera , open it 5 minutes and close it . So I accepted . I just got the camera , but I can tell it's being used as soon I open the box. The trap is in a bad shape . But the body is very good, almost no sign of use . However , I tried in 3 different on the web to get the shutter counter. They all gave me 14270 . I am quite disappointed the fact he lied to me . But my question is is this a good price ? Should I keep it or return it ?<br>

PLease give me your opinion .</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>OK, a 'demo' is not new....it's been used in some sort of fashion....even under the eye of the sales person. Yes, there is a lesson in there.</p>

<p>That said, take some photos (tests) with different lenses and if they come out good, then keep the camera and learn from the overall experience. Unless you intend to shoot 30K/weekend, your shutter should last many many years. I sold my D700 with 24K shutter count in 5yrs and at that speed (even if accelerated) it would take roughly 15yrs to needing one replaced. Not sure what Nikon lists, but one of the sites shows D800 lasting 200,000 actuations.</p>

<p>Just looked at CL and the numbers are in line with "used" eq.</p>

<p>If you wish to get vengeful about it, you can send it back (if you can ?)...or perhaps you can state your case and they'll give you an additional refund (?). Good luck.</p>

<p>Les</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Well, Adorama are showing the D800 new for about $3000, and KEH have an "excellent" (but not "like new") one for $2370. If it helps, a UK dealer is listing a used D800 at £1599 for 9000 actuations and £1499 for 41000 actuations (the absolute prices are a bit high for the US because of tax and the UK...), so the increased count doesn't seem to affect the value much.<br />

<br />

I agree with Les that I wouldn't worry about 14,000 actuations "wearing out" the camera - the D800's shutter is rated for 200,000 actuations (vs 400,000 for the D4, but up from 100,000 on the D600 and 150,000 on the D700). It does seem a little on the high side for a test unit, but then the D800 isn't exactly a recent launch.<br />

<br />

When you say the "trap is in bad shape", what exactly do you mean? If it's just the packaging, I'd not lose sleep, and enjoy a very good camera. (But check for the autofocus issue and update the BIOS.)</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<blockquote>

<p> "trap is in bad shape"</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p><strong>S</strong>trap maybe? Perhaps it's an old one put on in the shop.... DEMO kinda implies ex-shop/dealer.</p>

<p>It's not a wonderful price, good but not a 'gift'.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Photokina will be held in September. Most likely, major camera companies, including Nikon, will have a series of new products to announce in July, August, and early September. There is a chance that the D800/D800E as well as the D7100 will be updated to newer versions with the new Expeed 4 processor.</p>

<p>Essentially this dealer lied to you as this particular D800 has clearly been used far more than 5 minutes as a demo. Does it even carry a warranty? If you are not in a hurry, I would return it and wait a couple of months to see whether Nikon replaces the D800. The chance is that the value for the D800 will go down further if a new model is introduced. You can still buy another used D800 then, hopefully at a lower price.</p>

<p>If you need a camera now, you can see whether the dealer can drop the price further. But personally, I would much rather deal with an honest store.</p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>I agree with Shun, but 14,000 is nothing really in the lifetime of the camera - a non-point. I guess it all depends on how you feel as to whether he sold it on false pretences and whether the price overrides this concern. I assume there is no warranty. If not then it is certainly used with all that means for the price. I had a similar experience at Adorama back in the old days, but I took the camera because the price was unbeatable, but it didn't make me feel good about the transaction in retrospect.</p>

[opa_diallo1]

<p>Thanks you guys , for fast reponse and suggestions .<br>

I just took some pictures with 50f1,4 and 24-70 f2.8 and they look ok . What I mean strap is it is a used one , not even close to a new . My understanding of a demo is a camera that sits in the store to show to potential client to try . But may be I was wrong .<br>

Yes, I still can return it because I have 30 days to do so. <br>

to Shun: I am not in a rush to have a camera now , I still have my fuji X100S . So sending it back and wait might be an option . I wanted the D800 so badly, and decided to trade with y D700 I had . <br>

I will sleep on it and decide by tomorrow . Thanks all for your suggestions .</p>

 

[opa_diallo1]

<p>I am very disappointed with the fact the guys lied to me . That just killed me .Since he lied , I wanted to verify if the prie is right . The dealer is Adorama .</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Over 20 years ago, I once had a bad experience with Adorama. That is why to this day I buy from B&H far more than from Adorama, although Adorama seems to be doing much better now. That was around 1992 or so before you could order from the web. I once called Adorama to mail order and some guy with a strong New York accent answered the phone. He assured me that the camera bag I wanted was in stock in navy blue. Two days later, he called me back. I immediately recognized his accent before he explained why he called. It turned out that he only had that bag in black. To this day I still own that camera bag that doesn't match the color of my other ones.</p>

<p>Back then I lived in New Jersey and went into New York City once in a while. I visited Adorama and B&H, which used to be a couple of blocks from each other. They were quite rude in the store as well. I am sure things have changed a lot since then.</p>

<p>I'll see whether <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=3913334">Helen Oster</a> can help you. She is always helpful and my recent experience with Adorama is much better.</p>

[helen_oster]

Can you please email me: helen@adorama.com - with your order number, plus the date. & time of your call and the

number you called from so I can listen to the call.

You can certainly return it if you are unhappy or I'll see what can be done about a price reduction

 

I'm really so very sorry, and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Helen Oster

Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador

[Robin Smith]

<p>My transaction was in 1991. Ancient times: I've forgiven Adorama. But it is interesting how these impressions last, as they have with Shun.</p>

[opa_diallo1]

<p>Shung , it's almost like that too in this purchase . I sent them the following equipment for trade because I wanted to upgrame my system . I will not tell yu how much they offer me.lol<br>

D700<br>

LEICA M7 with 50f2 summicron,<br>

Nikon 85F1.4,<br>

fuji X100<br>

All in excellent condition , because I am not a pro and don;t take zillion of photos . Jus a hobby . So he told me he has what I want . The next day, I got a mail from Adorama that the item is back ordered , Fuji X-T1 . He endup sending me only the D800 . He did it twice , even so the second time I insisted if they really have it on stock .</p>

 

[opa_diallo1]

<p>HiHelen ,<br>

Thanks I wil send you the information. It will not be easy to give you exact time of the calls because I did many calls , specially when I got mail back from Adorama telling the camera is back ordered . ANy ways I will give you in the mail as much details I can , and the name of the person I dealed with . This all happen 3 weeks ago . I have been Adorama client since 2002 . When I order , I call directly Efraim who is an excellent person . This time , it was someone else.</p>

[maury_cohen]

<p>In my opinion the salesperson didn't lie to you. What he said, according to you, was: "it's like you take the camera out for five minutes." Key word being "like". I believe what he meant was that the camera LOOKED like it was taken out of the box for five minutes; not that it had literally been out of the box that long.<br>

Often when we're excited about something we hear what we want to, rather than the actual words being said.<br>

In any case; the camera was apparently in very good condition, so...</p>

[helen_oster]

Opa

 

I'd like to listen to the call when he indicated it was like new, particularly

 

Thanks

 

Helen

[helen_oster]

<p>I can see that from whatever the rep said - and I'm waiting for the recordings to come through - you may have gathered a certain impression about the unit, but I wouldn't want to say at this point that he 'lied' intentionally.<br>

While we look into this, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things; any camera sold by Adorama as D E+ E or E- comes with a 6-month warranty, which includes a 30-day returns period.</p>

<p>Helen</p>

<p> </p>

[opa_diallo1]

<p>Hi Helen,<br>

Of course I gathered a certain impression about what I am buying . I am not a big fan of used equipment I just buy new what I can afford. That's why I intentionally called back and ask again about the condition .<br>

For my education , what is the difference between demo and used ? Why do we use these 2 words for not new camera ? There should be a reason .<br>

In my invoice , it is cleary written demo camera too . I am not trying to invent anything . One of your seller I gave the name knows me very well since 2002 . I order directly by calling his direct line and he shipped me equipment in Paris , Canada wherever I am .<br>

You can ask the vendor to verify I said, unless your position or structure deos not allow you to do so , then my apologies . If he says something different , then use the recording . I sent you the name and phone number of the person , and I forwarded you the mail I sent him complaining. <br>

The main reason why I posted here is , did I get a good price on this camera with 14270 and can a demo have that much shots .</p>

 

[andylynn]

Opa,

 

Calling something Demo doesn't say anything about the shutter count, it just means that the shots the camera's taken

were taken while the store owned it. That could mean it sat in the display case for a year or two and any time somebody

walked in and wanted to demo a D800, that one came out and took a bunch of shots. Picture the foot traffic a big NYC

camera store gets and you can imagine how a camera can get 14000 shots on it pretty quickly.

 

So if you got the camera with that many clicks and the condition was pristine, I'd bet it was a counter demo. It probably

took all those shots while being kept indoors and handled very carefully. In other words, the ideal case for a non-new

camera.

 

But if the guy on the phone told you demos get unpacked and used for 5 minutes, that's not something he should have

said. That wouldn't make any sense. Why would a camera store turn a $3000 new camera into a $2300 non-new camera

just so they could get 5 minutes of use out of it? They'd lose a ton of money. If I owned a camera store I wouldn't take out

a new demo camera to show each customer, I'd have one camera that was the demo unit for a year or two.

[panayotis_papadopoulos]

<p>Hi Opa,<br /> If you feel that the sales person for some reason was not sincere and straight with you and as you mentioned you're not in a hurry to get a new camera, then I think Shaun has a very good point:<br /> Shaun said: <em>Photokina will be held in September. Most likely, major camera companies, including Nikon, will have a series of new products to announce in July, August, and early September. There is a chance that the<strong> D800/D800E as well as the D7100 will be updated to newer versions with the new Expeed 4 processor.</strong></em><br /> I fully agree with the above and I would suggest you take this under very serious consideration, either you go for the successor of the D800, or a used D800, since prices will eventually come down. Which means that If I were in your shoes I would return the camera back and wait. Cheers!</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<blockquote>

<p>Most likely, major camera companies, including Nikon, will have a series of new products to announce in July, August, and early September.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No kidding...:-)<br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>There is a chance that the D800/D800E as well as the D7100 will be updated to newer versions </p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Is that a prediction or a rumour?</p>

 

[opa_diallo1]

<p>Thanks a lot for all your input . It was very helpful and educational . Base on all these advices and comment , I have took the following decision. I requested more rebate on the camera to the vendor . If they accept, I will keep the camera . If they don't I will send it back and take Shaun's advice , wait for a possible newer version in September .</p>

 

[polizonte]

<p>I am leery of "demo" cameras and totally avoid discounted "open box" DSLR's (e.g. dis-PLAY) that have high mileage and have been abused by unscrupulous customers and store employees. I can understand how a buyer might be tempted to buy such items, I would like a second D800 camera body also. The price increase of $200 for a new D800 is disappointing; maybe this DSLR has been very popular and its production limited so that there is no need to discount to clear out stock. </p>

[opa_diallo1]

<p>UPDATE ...<br>

I just received a call from the vendor . This was not definitely the camera we we talked about on the phone , they sent me the wrong camera by mistake . He has taken an immediately the followin action after his apologies :<br>

- He will send me the right camera he put aside for me asap. I already received the order number and all detail to review .<br>

- He sent me a UPS electronic label to use when returning the camera from Canada so I will not pay shipment fees .<br>

I will returning today and get the right camera . So , I am happy .<br>

Thanks to all of you.<br>

Thanks to Shun for involving Helen.<br>

Thanks to Helen for any assistance or investigation you have done to solve this issue .</p>

 

[JDMvW]

<p>All the same, it is not clear that both sides were aware of what the other meant by "<em>demo</em>" and such.<br /> Such terms have been standard in the camera business for years, and buyers have an obligation to educate themselves on the terms before hand, or to ask what the terms mean when buying, if unsure what it means.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I am glad that as usual, Helen comes through.</p>

<p>Obviously we mainly have just one side of the story and we don't know exactly what was said during the initial phone call, but having 14K actuations is not quite consistent with some description that the camera was used for 5 minutes.</p>

<p>The D800 is now 2 years old and you can usually get a brand new one for $2700 or so. My expectation for a used one, in good condition, should be 20% off that price. Therefore, $2400 is not really a good price unless it is in excellent+ type condition. That is simply too close to the cost for a brand new one.</p>