Dealing with camera phones

[emily_avila]

I have been photographing for some time now, but am dipping my toes into event photography. I'm finding that because so many people

have cameras within reach at any moment, the amount of prints that I sell from events are greatly reduced. Anyone have ideas about

this? On the same topic, how about the people that stand behind you while your shooting, taking their own photos of your subjects

posing? How do I navigate this without seeming mean?

[Member69643]

<p>Prints are dying (or dead) as photography's main moneymaker. You need to get your profits up-front and then you won't care who shoots what. There is no other answer.</p>

[MichaelChang]

<p>Emily, what you've described seems to be a new fact of life, and to overcome it a photographer needs to offer a compelling reason for people to buy prints or risk becoming just another in the crowd with a camera. </p>

<p>On people photographing behind you, of course it does depend on the event and circumstances, but I don't think it's any different from you standing behind others shooting the same pose in an open or casual event unless you were hired as an exclusive photographer and have a prior understanding with the subjects. </p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>Prints are dying (or dead) as photography's main moneymaker. </p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

This is true, I would add that it has nothing to do with camera phones. There's little printing from phones, but this reflects the value of prints at this point in time. Most people would rather put their photos on a computer where they can find and share them easily, including with people who are not local, than put them in boxes, drawers, or albums that rarely gets opened. So Patrick's next sentence is the one to take as a guide. </p>

[emily_avila]

You guys are absolutely right, and I had an inkling that this was the case. So is it suggested that I charge more upfront,

even for family sittings, and just offer a CD of edited photos? Generally I charge $150 per 45 minute session, with prints

being extra.

In reference to people standing behind me at events, I'm definitely talking about weddings and such, where I'm the hired

photographer. I find eyes all going in different directions. Super frustrating.

[Spearhead]

<p>I charge for shooting. I don't know what "more" means for your market, you have to see what people are willing to pay. That's a bit low for where I live. I occasionally sell prints, but I don't charge a lot for them. I don't even deliver a CD most of the time, just web-sized images (1000px long side) through Dropbox and then get them large files for selections they want to print.</p>

[emily_avila]

Interesting, I think I may need to redesign my business practices. Thanks for everyone's input! It's great to bounce ideas

off of others in the field.

[peter_cohen]

<p>As for crowd control, it's rare that you won't have to deal with it. I try to get out in front of it by telling people as soon as they get up next to me that they need to let me get the shot first and then I will have the subjects stay in pose so all the others can get their shots. Be nice, but firm. Just think of those other cell-phone-camera shooters as taking money out of your pocket by distracting your clients and dragging out the session. You need to be in charge of the session.</p>

[rick_m.]

<p>I do what Jeff does exactly with the exception that I like to deliver a CD and go over the pics with the client. I can head off issues that way and it gives me an opportunity to schmooze with the client. There is always next month's bills. </p>

<p>As for handling the cell phone folks. A very polite, "let me get these few shots and I will help you get some great ones when I am done. Now everybody, look right here", works well. </p>

<p> </p>

[William Kahn]

<p>I'm somewhat old-school (okay, forget the "somewhat" part), so for me it's prints or nothing. I still believe that people want to be able to hang some kind of artwork in their walls and that there will continue to be a need for brick-and-mortar galleries where they can buy prints to fill their needs for that. Otherwise, I'm just a dinosaur waiting for the big comet.</p>

<p>The upside is that I get to shoot mostly in places where tourists don't usually go. Unless, of course, it's fall colors in the Great Smoky Mountains, in which case you're lucky to find a place to stand, much less park your vehicle. Last fall, I roughly estimated that the number of iphones and even ipads outnumbered "real" cameras by about 4 to 1, busily shooting mountain vistas and selfies against mountain vistas. It has one funny aspect, though. When folks in the mob see a guy like me with a camera, gadget bag and, good lord, a <em>tripod</em>, walking to a spot to set up, they have a tendency to follow and line up behind me. You can almost hear them thinking, "Oooh, a tripod! He must be a pro who knows the good spots!" It kind of reminds me of the times I've stopped next to a field to get a shot of an old barn, only to have a bunch of cows head my way because they think I'm going to feed them...</p>

[Member69643]

<blockquote>

<p>As for handling the cell phone folks. A very polite, "let me get these few shots and I will help you get some great ones when I am done. Now everybody, look right here", works well.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's interesting. It's an authority thing. The hired professional can order folks to pose, to position themselves, and the subjects obey because, well, he's in charge of the photos. The folks with cell phones don't have this authority so they ride the coattails of the maestro. A bit like hunting lions. The good (mostly female) hunters do all the work and then the males come in and eat most of the food. Unlike lions (where the males do have an important job, just not hunting so much) these other shooters contribute nothing; they merely take. Rick's suggestion, to offer to help them, brings them into the fold. They will remember that really helpful photographer. Word of mouth advertising at its finest.</p>

[john_h.1]

<p>I find that adding a quick sentence about why, as a hired photographer, you are asking for a moment without other distractions helps people want to cooperate. They will recognize the' look every direction effect' and that the hosts want to make sure to let you get the shots. They also know that they are going to snap away to their heart's content in a moment with the same scene and more. Of course their images will be posted right away but, absent banning people from the scene, there's nothing that can be done.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm somewhat old-school (okay, forget the "somewhat" part), so for me it's prints or nothing. I still believe that people want to be able to hang some kind of artwork in their walls</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> For event photography? That's what the question was about. I haven't been asked for prints for event photography in over five years, except when the printing is on-site.</p>

[William Kahn]

<p>I thought it was more about the demise of demand for prints. Anyway, I noticed the other day that our local WalMart is now offering canvas prints, even gallery wraps. I haven't had a chance to check out the details yet, but it does seem to counter the current trend.</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>He mentions "events" in each of the first two sentences.</p>

 

[William Kahn]

<p>Yes, <em>she</em> does. Emily, my apologies to you if you feel like my post was inappropriate to your thread.</p>

<p>And, in any event, I'm out of here...</p>

[William Michael]

<p>I’ve shot Weddings and Events for many years. There has been a considerable change in the Customers’ expectations, needs wants and USES of the end product. The “USES of the end product” is probably the most important bit. The events I shoot now are only sporting events and I make ZERO <em><strong>post event-day print sales</strong></em>: and I do NOT market that area at all. Any prints are pre-sold, on site, one size only, previewed and paid moments after the shot is made. I don’t do on-site printing, because I am trusted to post (mail) the prints within a few days, but if I were breaking into new sales territory I would consider on-site printing, but probably I would opt to not sell any prints at all, considering the Capital Expenditure for on-site printing and the Labour costs involved to do same: but those costs would have to be balanced with the expectation of sales to the Capture Market and the expected level of Impulse Buying – so I do recommend that On-Site Printing is a consideration when formulating your Business Plan.</p>

<p>In any case, the <em><strong>general business model</strong></em> of “shoot for a lower fee and then make the profit on the print sales” is well and truly gone. A <em><strong>refined and adapted version</strong></em> of that older business model <strong><em>can be made robust to a certain extent</em></strong> to make a good business for <strong><em>some</em></strong> Commissioned Portraiture and for <strong><em>some</em></strong> Wedding Clients: but I think that you are barking up the wrong tree using that old business model if one with little <strong><em>business</em></strong> experience and/or a small <strong><em>strategic& targeted</em></strong> portfolio, desires to break into event photography generally. As general advice I think it would be much better for you to structure your business such that you are paid if not in full, then for the vast majority of your time and expertise, before you release the shutter.</p>

<p>Apropos shooting at Weddings and people shooting behind or at the side of you, I believe that three important elements to address are, in no particular order of importance:<br /> > firstly you need to take control at times when you need to take control. Those times will be at the ‘must have shots’ whatever those ‘must haves’ are for that wedding. This is not an easy task and is more about <strong><em>people management</em></strong> than about dictatorial words and actions; it is about <strong><em>nuance</em></strong> and <strong><em>maturity</em></strong> and <strong><em>worldliness</em></strong> and <strong><em>being in the zone of everything that is happening, all around you</em></strong>. For example choosing to manage Uncle Bob who is highly passionate with a double scotch on board or choosing to motivate Aunty Mary to do that task for you, whilst you get the ‘must have’ Portraits of the B&G with both the Mums and Dads (an example only – those shots might not be a ‘must haves’ for every wedding).<br /> > secondly ensuring that you ARE in the <strong><em>correct position</em></strong> to get all the shots that comprise the WEDDING STORY. <br /> > thirdly ensuring that your shots are technically better than the those of the band wielding the camera phones; P&S and the inevitable cluster of folk sporting DSLR kits with battery grips very fast zoom lenses – usually a 70 to 200/2.8.<br /> <br /> What a lot of Wedding Photographers don’t seem to fully understand that when shooting Weddings particularly, there is usually quite a lot of <strong><em>people management</em></strong> skills which are required, even if one offers “totally photojournalistic coverage”. (Usually always) there is a need for the Photographer to interact on some level with the people at the Wedding and the course and nature of that interaction will go to defining in some part the quality of one’s output.<br /> <br /> WW</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>Prints are not dead. There are different types of prints that still sell. Portraits, wedding photos, posters, calendars, post card, advertisements, magazines, news papers all use prints. People have always taken snap-shots, but professional photographers are still around. I got to admit that the digital revolution, you just have to work harder and be really good and committed at what you do. </p>

<p><em>On the same topic, how about the people that stand behind you while your shooting, taking their own photos of your subjects posing? How do I navigate this without seeming mean?</em></p>

<p>You are always going to get that even at weddings, so get use to it. Simply tell them that you are on the job and once you get the shot they can take as many pictures as they want. </p>

[eric_m4]

<p>I don't even think people put images on their computers. Whenever anyone wants to show you a photo they show you on their phone. And when there's no more space on cell phone they just delete older photos. It's strange to think that a lot of people will not have photos (prints or otherwise) to "go down memory lane" when they are older and want to show their kids or grandkids. My parents have shoe boxes full of photos of family events over the years. I agree, prints are history.</p>