Rangefinder Buying Advice (For Canon IVSB2)

[christopher_callil]

<p>Hello all!<br>

This is my first ever first here, looked like the right place to get some advice for an upcoming potential purchase. So some guidance would be very much appreciated!<br>

Firstly my experience with vintage camera is fairly recent, I'm only 18 and only just came across a seemingly new passion of mine, vintage photography. I'm totally hooked and loving it!<br>

Not to long along ago I purchased a Pentax SP, excellent condition with a 55mm lens for crazy cheap. Unfortunately it's light meter is broken, but I think I'll buy a handheld light meter soon. But this is what started my obsession for these metal beauties.<br>

I've now been looking for a fully mechanical, beautiful rangefinder to use as my main camera, and a Canon IVSB2 (+ Canon 50mm f/1.8) has come into play. It appears to be in excellent physical condition and it's stated to be in good working order, although it's stated that the "lens is missing infinity stop, slow speeds are sluggish, there is a bit of rusting on aperture/focus rings but these do not affect functioning"<br>

I've included the included photo's below.<br>

Reason I'm posting here is to gauge whether it's worth a purchase, considering it might need a bit of a service to get to optimally working.<br>

Asking price is $450.<br>

Thanks guys!<br>

<img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3914/14479664368_bd46bac6f9_c.jpg" alt="" /><br>

<img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2910/14666296015_823005577d_c.jpg" alt="" /><br>

<img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2911/14479664778_451b02fb0d_c.jpg" alt="" /><br>

<img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2897/14665933052_4758567bcb_c.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>- Chris</p>

<p> </p>

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>Chris --</p>

<p>First, welcome! I'm glad you found this forum. I have many Canon RFs (a couple of them are the very nice IVSB2 model you're looking at) and they are quite fun to kick around with. </p>

<p>Practical advice: expect to pay for a CLA (clean, lube, adjust) on any vintage camera you buy UNLESS the owner can show you PROOF of service from a qualified technician. A CLA can run from $150-$275, depending on the person doing the service.</p>

<p>The 50/F1.8 is a great lens and no worries about the infinity stop.</p>

<p>In regards to price, unless it's been serviced, I think you're overpaying. Not by a lot, but consider you will likely have to drop $250 or so on top of your current outlay for a CLA. I'd offer $125-$150 less than asking for that reason.</p>

<p>Good luck and I hope it works out.</p>

[christopher_callil]

<p>Hi Carl!<br>

Thanks so much for the advice! Tough finding some knowledgeable people in this area, so glad I came across this site! <br>

Really appreciate the heads up on the CLA, did not expect it to be that pricey. But now that I think of it, considering it's age and the skills needed to work with these old cameras it's understandable.<br>

Waiting for the seller to give me a call, and I'll be driving to assess the camera myself in a few days.<br>

Any tips/advice when assessing the camera hands on?</p>

<p> </p>

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>Chris,</p>

<p>Search this forum and you'll find a lot of responses for questions like you pose but here is what comes to mind at this late hour. Likely others will add some more:</p>

 

<ul>

<li>Rangefinder accuracy -- when the lens is at infinity, does your rangefinder split-image also show distant objects aligned?</li>

<li>Are the horizontal and vertical images in the rangefinder aligned? This often gets out of adjustment with the bumps and knocks a camera can accumulate over the years.</li>

<li>Shutter speeds: do they sound reasonably accurate? Particularly the slower speeds. Remember those speeds are important as you can hand hold those small bodies down to 1/8 or even 1/4 second (particularly at 18 years old, you still have good muscle control).</li>

<li>Does it have a take up reel inside the body (for the film to wind on as it's shot). It should be spring loaded for Canon bottom loaders.</li>

<li>Check other obvious stuff: the prism magnifier thingy on the left side will flip around and show you appropriate image magnification (a wonderful feature!)</li>

<li>Shutter curtains: are they smooth or wrinkly? Can you shoot a roll of film to make sure they are light tight and also to test shutter speeds?</li>

<li>Make sure film winding is smooth and reasonably easy to turn.</li>

</ul>

<p>I've probably forgotten many things but that's a start.</p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>Looks like a sweet camera. I would unscrew the lens and check for oil on the diaphragm and check the lens for fungus and separation. While the lens is off ,I would look for pin holes in the shutter curtains. Any fog or haze in the viewfinder or range-finder can be an issue. Be mindful ... Gear acquisition syndrome is real! It starts with "it was so cheap" and "how could I pass on that" or "well it's just one more" then your wife checks your pockets every time you come home! Have fun with classic cameras.<br>

Chris</p>

[christopher_callil]

<p>Carl -</p>

<p>Thank you for the tips! Will make sure to check all of these when i inspect it.<br>

<br />Christopher Ward -</p>

<p>Also appreciate the tips! Will make sure i keep these in mind. Thankfully i won't have a wife on my back about it for awhile to come! If anything my girlfriend will be impressed haha</p>

[SCL]

<p>Christopher - not sure where you are located, but Youxin Ye in MA works on these type of cameras and lenses and does a really good job with quick turnaround and reasonable prices. I've found him quite responsive to email inquiries and he's done several lenses/bodies for me. Here is a link to his site http://www.yyecamera.com/</p>

[Robert_Lai]

<p>Check under the cover of the accessory shoe. Who knows what defects are hiding under there?<br>

There is no "rust" per se on these cameras. They are brass with chrome on top. Sometimes the chrome wears or flakes off, and the underlying brass shows through. We call it "brassing".</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>If the "slow speeds are sluggish", the shutter needs to be serviced. Best to make that a full overhaul. The rust mentioned is on the lens. I had a Serenar 50/1.8 with rust on it, but it worked well.</p>

[Keith S in Arizona USA]

<p>Hey Chris, "WELCOME!"<br>

You have received really good advice here from the responders. No overload of info, but important points.<br>

Since you are relatively new ---<br>

Regarding fungus --- a lens with fungus will usually exhibit a whitish fluffy looking bunch of 'spider veins.' Hopefully you won't run across any fungus. Look at / through the lens with a penlight flashlight for other defects too. Which hopefully you won't see any. A bit of light haze is normal; it is due to out-gassing of lubricants from the aperture mechanism over the decades and is rarely bad enough to affect photos. Some bad-looking lenses make photos you could not tell from a clear lens. I know this from my own experience.<br>

Fungus mostly occurs from an item being stored in a very hot humid environment. Fungus is fortunately rare. If not too bad and not too established it can be cleaned up with a lens CLA by the better technicians. Fungus can etch the lens over time. Although you may never encounter it, it is good to know about for reference when you evaluate future items.<br>

Old RF cameras are really cool items. Many are being collected and restored for use. We know this due to the increasing workload of restoration technicians. Anyone who states that film is dead is uninformed.<br>

Film RULES!</p>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>My experience with two copies of these Canon cameras with cloth shutters involved deterioration of the fabric and rubber coating calling for replacement. The asking price is too high. IMHO you'd be better off with Leica IIIc with collapsible Elmar 50mm f3.5 for possibly less money. </p>

[christopher_callil]

<p><strong>Stephen Lewis - </strong></p>

<p>Unfortunately I live in Australia, close to Melbourne where I think I'll get it serviced if I do pick it up. I'll make a thread asking about technicians if I do. Thanks anyway!</p>

<p><strong>Robert Lai -</strong></p>

<p>Thanks for the advice! Will keep this in mind, a touch of brassing on the lens doesn't faze me too much. </p>

<p><strong>Mukul Dube -</strong></p>

<p>Again appreciate the heads up, definitely gives me an idea on the servicing costs. </p>

<p><strong>Keith S -</strong></p>

<p>Thanks so much for the explanation! All great advice I'm happy to now know. Film does rule!</p>

<p><strong>Paul Wheatland -</strong></p>

<p>I certainly agree! Although in terms of the Leica IIIc, in Australia these are very rare to find, no idea why but they reach pretty high prices, much above the Canon (probably due to our strong economy and location, stuff seems cheaper overseas!) But never the less appreciate the advice!</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for all the support!</p>

[Troll]

<p>Run, do not walk, away from this stinker.</p>

[christopher_junker1]

<p>Chris, is the asking price in AUS or US dollars? $450 AUS is $421.97US, which is still high. The suggestion of a test roll is essential. As for the rangefinder test, alignment can be checked for both vertical and horizontal with a large object having strong vertical and horizontal lines like an overhead garage door. Alignment for infinity can be similarily done with objects like a flag pole or bridge a good distance away. Again look for test objects with strong vertical and horizontal lines you can easily see in the rangefinder. If the rangefinder is dim compared to the outside light, it needs cleaning.<br>

This camera and lens set (which should include a lens cap) although cosmetically in good shape for it's age is in serious need of a complete CLA. If the shutter speeds are sluggish, they'll stay sluggish and repeated tripping of the shutter will not "fix it". A test roll will tell you alot about the camera's faults, I wouldn't buy it without seeing the test roll results. I bought a Leica IIIc with 50 Elmar 3.5 that looked in really good shape. The test roll showed otherwise; the speeds were off, there were shutter pinhole streaks in the pictures and the haze indicated the lens needed cleaning. If you have access to a slide projector, take slides and project them, problems really show up with good sized images. Otherwise have the print negatives scanned. For correct exposures you'll need to purchase or borrow a good light meter. You may wish to check around in Melbourne to see if you can get repair quotes for a full CLA, new shutter, clean and lube for the lens. Canon made quality rangefinder cameras and lenses and this is a good example, $400 AUS-less total CLA costs is a fair negotiating point. If the seller won't let you run a test roll or it cannot be done due to an absent take up spool, take Bill Mitchell's advice and decline the purchase.<br>

This forum recently had a discussion on selling or buying cameras and lenses with or without a CLA. Worth reading, especially with this specific camera and lens in mind. <br>

We wish you well with your project, please keep us informed.</p>

[christopher_junker1]

<p>Chris, is the asking price in AUS or US dollars? $450 AUS is $421.97US, which is still high. The suggestion of a test roll is essential. As for the rangefinder test, alignment can be checked for both vertical and horizontal with a large object having strong vertical and horizontal lines like an overhead garage door. Alignment for infinity can be similarily done with objects like a flag pole or bridge a good distance away. Again look for test objects with strong vertical and horizontal lines you can easily see in the rangefinder. If the rangefinder is dim compared to the outside light, it needs cleaning.<br>

This camera and lens set (which should include a lens cap) although cosmetically in good shape for it's age is in serious need of a complete CLA. If the shutter speeds are sluggish, they'll stay sluggish and repeated tripping of the shutter will not "fix it". A test roll will tell you alot about the camera's faults, I wouldn't buy it without seeing the test roll results. I bought a Leica IIIc with 50 Elmar 3.5 that looked in really good shape. The test roll showed otherwise; the speeds were off, there were shutter pinhole streaks in the pictures and the haze indicated the lens needed cleaning. If you have access to a slide projector, take slides and project them, problems really show up with good sized images. Otherwise have the print negatives scanned. For correct exposures you'll need to purchase or borrow a good light meter. You may wish to check around in Melbourne to see if you can get repair quotes for a full CLA, new shutter, clean and lube for the lens. Canon made quality rangefinder cameras and lenses and this is a good example, $400 AUS-less total CLA costs is a fair negotiating point. If the seller won't let you run a test roll or it cannot be done due to an absent take up spool, take Bill Mitchell's advice and decline the purchase.<br>

This forum recently had a discussion on selling or buying cameras and lenses with or without a CLA. Worth reading, especially with this specific camera and lens in mind. <br>

We wish you well with your project, please keep us informed.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>I wonder a little (just a little) why someone would buy a camera like this.<br>

Not that I think there is anything wrong with buying one, but is it to take pictures, or just to keep on the shelf?<br>

If one isn't going to actually use it, is it worth the CLA? (The need for CLA, though, should be considered in the price one is willing to pay.)<br>

I have the Canon VI that took most of my baby pictures. It still works fairly well, though hasn't had a CLA in at least 50 years. The shutter speeds might be a little off, but not much. <br>

But, I could buy a few fine 35mm SLRs for the CLA price for one camera. <br>

The Canon is fun to use now, and might be slightly more useful with a CLA. Only slightly.</p>

[christopher_callil]

<p><strong>Glen Herrmannsfeldt</strong><br>

I can't speak for everyone Glen, but for me I'd say it's just a bit of curiosity and a love for experimentation.<br>

I guess growing up in a digital generation, with digital cameras and forms of capturing images all around me (each identical to the next, such as the iPhone in everyone's pockets) old cameras have this character, this feeling. Like I'm carrying something incredible, something built with care by another human's hands.<br>

Film photography almost has more meaning due to the expense of buying film and getting them processed. It's incredibly fascinating to me that each photo is imprinted onto something physically, coming from an age of digital everything. <br>

And I have this strange hate of being like everyone else, I want to be different. And don't want to buy the same thing everyone else, it's a bit arrogant and self righteous but it's honestly who I am. </p>

[glen_h]

<p>OK, I agree with the experimentation, but the price is a little high for the experiments that I might do, especially when there are a lot of other nice cameras around. Part of that experimentation is working with a camera that might not be working as well as it could be. If I buy a $50 camera, it would seem too strange to pay $200 for CLA.<br>

I also like to be different, but I am also cheap. Compare one $500 camera to ten $50 cameras. Though the $50 cameras aren't all that rare, I might have ten of them, which would still be pretty rare. Also, I have ten times better chance that one is working well enough to use! And even more, there are plenty down to $20 or even $10 that still work fine.<br>

But if I bought a $500 camera, I wouldn't want to actually use it. Just keep it on the shelf.</p>

[red_robin]

<p>Chris, Buying an older camera is not a hasty venture to embark upon. Almost sounds like your mind is made up on owning this overpriced camera. A little bit of internet searching will reveal some honest dealers that will avail you with a nice selection of Canon RF cameras. UNHAPPY(?) send it back! They want your business, your return business. Above all be patience .To put it nicely it sounds like a parts body at best. I use two bottom loaders, a III and a IIF purchased 5 or 6 years ago . No CLA's both work well enough. Before you pull the trigger on that money pit look around. .. ... alot. Ask about honest dealers on rangefinderforum .com, get an earful. RED</p>