Concert photography aperture help

[bagley_crowder2]

<p>Hey gang! I've started shooting shows, and I have begun mentoring under an established photographer. I noticed that he shoots a lot of shots wide open- 1.8 and 2.0. I have problems getting my images sharp at those apertures (being such a shallow depth of field). <br>

My question is this- what aperture do most pros seem to like as a sweet spot? I notice Jared will bump his to 3.2 a lot to give him wiggle room. Do you guys shoot wide open a lot with concerts? It's really frustrating and difficult. Thanks in advance! Bagley</p>

[JosvanEekelen]

<p>Depends on the amount of light. In a dark venue the only possibility might be upping the ISO and shooting wide open. Forget about the sweet spot, stopping motion is your concern more than getting the best optical quality. OTOH shooting wide open will give you a very shallow depth of field.</p>

[SCL]

<p>A couple of things to consider. Most lenses are not in their sharpness "sweet spot" unless they are stopped down a notch or two. So, to begin with, it helps to have a lens which has a little larger aperture than you plan to shoot with, or, a (expensive) lens which is optimized in its design to be at its peak wide open (my first choice). Secondly (assuming you are shooting digital instead of film), many photographers bump up their ISO to increase their shutter speed so that they reduce motion blur of their subject, or of their own hands. Another trick is to learn to squeeze the shutter, as one would the trigger on a rifle or pistol, to reduce camera shake. And another one is to learn to shoot when the subject "pauses" and exhibiting less movement, such as when taking a breath, etc. I'm certainly no pro, and rarely do concerts anymore, but I learned to focus on the performer's eyes (either using single point AF or a split image rangefinder screen on a manual focus camera). Mostly, lots and lots of practice.</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>Much depends on the camera and how good it is at certain high ISO's (noise). Some of it depends on lighting and how much DOF you think you need (for specific subject-effect). Usually 1.4 or 1.8 is way too thin, I mean even if you are some distance away. You can try 2.0 or 2.8....check if it agrees WITH YOU and go from there. Each of us have a slightly different approach.</p>

<p>Les</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>I shoot concerts every week. The aperture will depend on lighting and whether you can use flash. I use flash quite a bit - I realize many people don't and have a lot of trouble with control, but when it's allowed, I use it. When it's not allowed, I almost always shoot at f2.8 - f4 and bump the ISO up pretty high. I don't find that wide open works a lot of times, especially if you there's a lot of movement and it's difficult to do exact focusing. I have a different view than some of the above comments. For one thing, shooting in the dark, a lens' "sweet spot" is pretty much irrelevant.</p>

<p>I agree that you should find your own approach, which is why I started shooting with flash. Here's a typical shot with flash from a recent shoot. I drag the shutter to get some motion and pull in the background in a more natural way. Shot at 1/6 sec, f4.5, ISO 400:</p>

 

<center><img src="http://spirer.com/images/fantasia3.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="467" /></center>

<p>Here's one taken where flash was not allowed. It's shot at 1/90, f4, ISO 3200. It's a bit soft from motion, something that happens in these situations. Any slower shutter speed would probably have been very soft.</p>

 

<center><img src="http://spirer.com/images/valjune1.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="525" /></center>

<p>The real point is that there are a lot of ways to shoot but you need to be prepared for all sorts of situations. I have shot many shows where there was nothing useable without going to around ISO 25000 if I didn't use flash. And ISO 25000 isn't that useable. Usually big venues, like where the second shot above was taken (Fillmore Auditorium, San Francisco) have enough light, but some performers want lower lights, and then, without flash, you're in that place that's hard to get a decent shot.</p>

[martin_z.]

<p>Jeff's advice is right on, in my opinion. Years ago, I shot the Allman Brothers Band. No flash was allowed, so I used ASA (yes, I'm old) 3200 film. Grain? Not a problem, 'cause I got lucky, and caught some great moments. I think that's far more important than any technical grain / noise issues.</p>

<p>As Jeff says, the bigger venues (and artists) will have much better lighting. This B.B. King shot was ISO 800, 1/640 @ 1.8, with the cheap little 50 mm lens. There seems to be enough depth of field, even wide open.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[William Michael]

<blockquote>

<p>“I've started shooting shows . . . I have problems getting my images sharp at those apertures <em>[F/1.8~F/2]</em> (being such a shallow depth of field).”</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Just to keep your analysis accurate, take a look at the SHUTTER SPEEDS of those shots.<br /> You may find that it is not always about the Shallow DoF or even focus in-accuracy for all of those messed up shots: but more about blur due to movement, either Subject or Camera or both. I have seen this misanalysis, often.</p>

<p>*</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"Do you guys shoot wide open a lot with concerts?"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I shoot more Plays and Theatre than Concerts, but to address your question the answer is the same, note that I am answering in the circumstance of NOT being able to use Flash:<br /> Not if I do not have to; no I do not use a fast Prime Lens wide open. Typically using a fast Prime (F/1.4 or F/1.8) I will be at F/2.2 ~ F/4 and I will bump the ISO to suit the lighting.</p>

<p>Obviously, if there is not enough light, then I might have use a lens wide open: BUT as the lens needs to be opened more I will attempt to make the shots FRAMED more toward a Full Length Shot - and that is mainly for the DoF reason that you mention.</p>

<p>(For a 135 Format or ‘full frame’ format camera, such as a Canon 5D) -<br /> Using the camera vertically, a Full Length Shot of standing person will give about 24 inches DoF at F/2.8 and about 12 inches at F/1.4, and 12 inches DoF can be doable. But as the framing of the shot becomes tighter, the DoF becomes quite a challenge, for example for an half shot, the DoF is about 6 inches at F/2.8 and 4 inches at F/1.4; framing a Tight Head Shot is usually just a silly idea as there is less than 2 inches DoF at F/2.8 and at F/1.4 there is less than 1 inch DoF.</p>

<p>SO – if after re-assessing your shots you do in fact find that you have a DoF issue, you should consider the FRAMING of your shots. If you do need to shoot with your lens wide open then you should FRAME a BROADER SHOT, like a Full Length Body Shot to at least give you a fighting chance, with the shallow DoF.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>I'm no professional. When I shoot concerts for the band or a local magazine I beg the stage technician for extra light. I have used flash too when permitted & necessary. My AF seems to sometimes nail static musicians even wide open. - To do such by hand with moderately fast glass I rather grab Leica M than SLRs. Concert photography is a bit of spray & pray. - If you can go for higher ISO to gain still enough IQ and a bit of extra DOF for safety, do so. - But some concerts only allow f2.0 & 1/30 - Time to rely on shake reduction &/ monopod.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p> Concert photography is a bit of spray & pray. </p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

If you only do it once every now and then, maybe it is. Once you do it enough, it's pretty easy to tell what will work and what won't and to shoot what will work. The biggest issue I have with needing more shots is performers who are picky about how they look.</p>

[ray_riedel]

<p>I f shooting wide open, some burst shots (spray and pray) are always helpful, Faces in transition, moderate camera shake, and the musicians motion can all spoil a shot. The burst (three shots) increases the likelihood that your movement, or the performers movement, will pass through 0.<br>

Obviously, if you could shoot high enough shutter speed to freeze action, you would.<br>

Shallow DOF is often a good thing, but you know this already, I saw your flickr page and loved your outdoor photography.<br>

All other things being equal, (they aren't), primes with f2 and lower can focus better and faster in low light. My 70-200mm f2.8L focuses faster at basketball games than my 50mm f1.4 or my 100mm f2.0, but at dances with very low light, my 50mm f1.4 focuses faster than the 70-200mm. Somebody earlier mentioned limits -it all applies. So you'll need to use different tactics as conditions allow. Remember focusing occurs at max aperture regardless what f-stop you select for exposure.<br>

I've had good luck shooting with my 100mm at f2 and then as suggested by another, cropping the image. I also shoot the Canon 5D mkII and like going at lower ISO and available light that the 100mm allows. Unless I'm making big prints, I also downsample the images which sharpens the image and reduces noise.<br>

I've never considered flash for stage shows. They have pros providing exciting lighting, so I always use that. Especially when using colored lights. Unfortunately, if there are multiple flash shooters out there, they will spoil some of your shots.</p>