henry_finley1 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>So I've got this original model 1957 500C body that I picked up for a mere $30. All the others I've gotten my hands on I had to just flip, because I'm basically not in a financial class to where I have any business owning expensive cameras. So this one was to be mine to keep. But it's hopeless. All I want to do is go in and clean it up to where the back doors will shut all the way--no big deal.<br> But it's not going to happen. It won't let me get past the spanner nut on the right hand side. That nut will NOT come loose--no way. One silly stupid simple little nut, and that sucker will NOT budge. This is ridiculous. Totally hopeless.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaglow Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Have you tried any nut loosening chemicals, like pb spray, or many others? Let it sit for awhile. Also try putting it in the freezer or refridgerator, or put near heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>Only 2 minutes of a 140 watt Weller soldering gun tip directly on it. Ain't no chemical going to break this nut loose. This is a real hardcase. I truly believe it is hopeless.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncox Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>You could drill it out and replace it. If that nut is going to stop the repair it <em>might</em> be worth it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>got it! Sometimes you just have to look at it as if you had already thrown it in the trash and ask yourself what you've got to lose, now.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirteenthumbs Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>I would put a drop or two of penetrating oil on it and let it sit over night to 24 hours before drilling.<br> I never had any luck with a soldering iron/gun for heat freeing a pin, screw, or nut but a mini butane torch for 30 seconds to 1 minute will oft times do the trick.</p> <h3 id="detailTitle"> </h3> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>I tell you what I wish I could take over some Hasselblad tech's fixtures and jigs. I can do this. A career change at 57. Some people are just good. I'm one of them. Thanks, fellows.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm curious: what did you do that did the trick, Henry? Apply more force?<br><br>It's great to be able to do things yourself. But i think you do indeed need those fixtures and jigs to do things right.<br>Taking something apart and remembering how the bits go together again is one thing. Adjusting things to be within acceptable tolerances is another. Sometimes it's a matter of it-either-works-or-it-doesn't. Sometimes it's a matter of fractions of millimeters. And that requires proper alignment/adjustment rigs.<br>(And a fair bit of know-how, of course. But that we can learn, hence the question.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>What I did was place a screwdriver on 3 points around the perimeter on the nut pointed inward toward the center and gave it a few light but authoritative whacks. Then applied more force, knowing all the while the poor little gear pawl inside was really taking some punishment. I'm convinced there must be a fixture made for this to take the stress off the gear and pawl. I used a pair of snap-ring pliers as my spanner wrench.<br> As far as working on the things that require special jigs, I simply leave those adjustments alone. In replacing foam however, I mike the body before I take the top panel off to re-foam it. That's really all I CAN do. There's just some things we have no business fooling with without the correct fixtures and jigs. <br> I wouldn't even know how to go about procuring them, and they'd probably all cost as much as another mortgage. Then there's the training, which we do not have. Some things are just left best well-enough-alone. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 <p>Well it looks like the barn doors not closing completely is probably caused by a broken coil spring under that big gear that drives the film back. Does anybody know whether the center screw of that gear is left or right hand thread? Of course I'm going to have to remove the arm that drives the piston on this '57 model, before I can take the gear apart to get to the coil spring.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 <p>Boy have I learned a lesson--do NOT take out that coil spring.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_fairbank Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 This is very entertaining Henry, I guess the spring is not broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_fairbank Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I admire what you are doing and in no way am I laughing at you, to want to know how it works is a common question and you are doing something about it. If you were to follow the path of a CLA you would dismantle the camera almost completely and have the parts spread before you. The parts would be cleaned, inspected and then relubricated during the reassembly. It is very unusual to find a 500C that has not had the older air brake removed and replaced with the later damper. A full CLA might be ambitious without experience so take the time to understand the mechanism step by step, take photographs at every chance. You are now flying solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 <p>Dismantling the camera completely would be my first and easiest choice. I wouldn't have a problem in the world with that. Except for those fixtures and jigs necessary for reassembly, which I don't have. Without them, it would be foolish to disassemble things you couldn't put back together without proper measurement.<br> As far as the piston assembly, I have come to the conclusion that this was a bad design bound to cause trouble. I proved that theory by unhooking the actuation arm and tripping it a couple times, and it worked perfectly. THEN I took out the coil spring. That was dumb. Five hours of labor and fingertips so sore I can't touch it now for a week, and that spring still isn't back in. But this camera WILL be put back to original.<br> Personally I think a damper conversion is the only way to make this 1957 dependable, but it wouldn't be original. I'm an "original equipment" sort of guy.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 <p>Well, so much for that. Looks like the end of project and in the junk box it goes. I can't get the coil spring back in, my fingertips are sore, and the barn doors don't go up when I trip off the camera. So obviously I've gotten something out of whack. You only need the coil spring to close the doors, something else opens them, and they're not opening Till I turn the inner spindle the coil spring hooks to. Maybe I'd best be glad I can handle working on EL's and ELM's, but the C is a different machine entirely.<br> I ruined an EL once learning to work on them. Looks like I've ruined a C. Sure do hate it was an original '57. I didn't even learn anything in the sacrifice. Thanks, fellows.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 <p>Hey, sometimes you win and sometimes you don't. I've parted out my fair share of cameras, but I've also surprised myself several times. I'm still in the black as far as money spent and money lost. Plus, I've furthered my education in the process. Some cameras I don't even mess with anymore unless I have a good idea what the problem is and it's an easy fix. Just not worth the time and effort for what you get back in return. Of course it all depends on how much you paid and what it might be worth, to you or somebody else, when you're done. I'm like you Henry and ask myself, "What do I have to lose"! Some people play poker or buy lottery ticket and others like us destroy cameras for fun. Good luck next time and I'm sure, if you're like me, there will be a next time even if you said never again. JW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 <p>Thanks, John. Destroying cameras--classic rare cameras is something I take as a bitter defeat. The camera is actually not destroyed. I just can't get it back together and don't have the money to pay it away. An expert could probably have this thing humming in 30 minutes, with what's already right here on my table. In fact I had it working just by unhooking the piston lever from the piston. Then I made the dumb mistake of taking out the coil spring. THEN it occurred to me that the 1957 model with piston was a bad design I could have corrected by converting it to the post 1971 arrangement.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Bad luck, Henry.<br><br>I agree with you though on what you said about keeping originals original. There are plenty 500 Cs without the piston, very few left with that thing. So it would be a small disaster to remove yet another one from the few left, just to turn it into something there are very many of already.<br><br>It would be a shame also (though understandable) if this particular camera would end its life like this. I'm sure that, after recovering from the pain and frustration, you will find a way to get it back together again. Don't give up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_fairbank1 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 <p>I am curious to know why other people have an affection for the 500C with the piston. For me the sound is lovely but that is about it, all the other improvements that came in at the same time were very worthwhile and improved the reliability of the camera. For you Henry you have to master the coil spring if you want to go forward from here as there are many items in the Hasselblad system that use similar springs and there are some parts that are much harder to fit than that. Why not work on some simple non modular cameras to improve your skills and then return to the 500C.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 It's history, Douglas. Some things we only know of because there were people who knew and told us about those things. Some things are still here to for us to see ourselves.<br>And even though that would not mean we would want to use those things as they are, or readopt the perhaps obsolete technology they embody, the latter is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankz Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 <p>Two things - #1, there's no reason you can't keep diddling the camera until you figure the reassembly out or finally take it to someone that knows how to effect the repair.<br /> #2 - because of their tendency to become extremely obnoxious during dismantling or assembly, springs have earned some "not-so-nice" names. Having worked in a Tool & Die shop for 40 years, I assure you I've heard many names and colorful invectives whilst dealing with the things.<br /> When one is assembling a part, something slips and the lovely spring flies across the shop at a high rate of speed, managing to relocate itself to the most inaccessible and nasty part of the shop floor one learns why they are sometimes referred to as "Jesus Springs", as that's usually the first word (on a good day) out of a crusty old die maker's mouth.<br /> Keep it up - you'll eventually get it back in place or learn to incorporate explosives into your repair technique.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry_finley1 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 <p>I've been working on cameras for years, with very few losses. For a self-taught man, I am a very thorough and attentive worker. Maybe that's half my problem. This thing has turned into a bag of worms on me and I'm tired of it. All I want is a silly stupid spring back in, and it won't go back in. I'm convinced the piston-era models were a bad design, prone to that spring getting weak or any other lubrication or wear problem. If Hasselblad had continued manufacturing cameras like that, they would never have been Apollo-grade equipment. And I'm sure many weddings would have been ruined. It's a bad design. I think the post-1970 design took advantage of the weight of the damper collar for inertia, so if the spring got a bit weak, the weight and inertia of the collar would pull it on through the cycle.<br /> It is obvious the piston models had to be in top shape all the time, or you were begging for trouble. That said, I'd still like it to be working with piston, if possible. But since the spring will not go back in, it's done. I've tried everything a thousand times. It's a wonder I haven't destroyed the spring.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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