Nikon Introduces Df Retro DSLR

[borgis_karl_johan1]

<p>BTW the layout mostly reminds me of the FA of 1984 vintage.</p>

[Hector Javkin]

<p>I lie the light weight and the mechanical controls, and hope this camera sells despite the AF module and especially the 15mm eye-point. Maybe it will convince Nikon to produce successors. I'll wait for <strong>the DF3 HP</strong>.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>5.5 fps, but more if battery pack? Maybe 8?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Except there is no battery pack! And with the positioning of the SD in the battery compartment, it seems rather unlikely that there will be one. Or do people want to remove it every time they need to access the card? Or tether the camera to a computer every time to transfer images?</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Now I've actually got to a computer rather than a tablet, and can see the full DxO analysis of the sensors, I should take back my previous assertion: the D800 and D610 keep the D4 pretty honest (within half a stop) up to about ISO 12800, after which a gap opens up. So it's true, this camera is probably your budget option if you want to shoot lowish resolutions at ISO 25600 - it's certainly cheaper than a D4 or a 1Dx. That still sounds like an unusual priority for this camera to me - the D4 will get used for a lot of almost-no-light images that end up on web pages or in low quality news print and a stratospheric ISO is probably useful, but that doesn't feel like how they're pitching this. Lannie: I'm with you on horses for courses - I'd love a D3s or a D4 (and this is probably competing with the used-D3s market) as a secondary option, but not as my only camera. And I've just had to take an ISO 3200 image with a V1, which was painful.<br />

<br />

I'm a little less against it when it appeared that you couldn't partly ignore the dials on top - I now get the impression that you can ignore them and use it as a normal two-dial Nikon (mostly and sort of), though things like changing mode and ISO are still annoying. I remain dubious about the ergonomics of a vertical front dial, but I'll await reports from people who have held it.<br />

<br />

Anyway, it's different, so I'm not going to bite Nikon's head off. I think they probably could have appealed to more people with something more obvious, but at least they did something. And I still wonder whether they're getting ready to ditch their sensor stocks before the D5. I'll be interested to know whether this is an unexpected hit - one reason I like lurking on this forum is to learn that other people see things differently from me (and occasionally, they're right!) At least I'm pretty sure it's not going to hurt sales of the D610, D800 or D4 much.</p>

[simon_hickie1]

<p>This seems to me to be an utterly pointless release with little that's innovative. The pricing is hideous and the AF / single card slot must surely reduce the appeal to professionals, given the available alternatives. A mirrorless response to the new Sony twins may have been more interesting and relevant. As an ex Nikon user (now m4/3 with Olympus) I see the beginning of a slippery downward slope both for Nikon and Canon especially in the consumer DSLR market.</p>

[harveysteeves]

<p>As always, there needs to be a sacrificial lamb so I will be an early adopter. I have paid the price in the past with Nikon but will do it again.</p>

[bms]

<blockquote>

<p>But don't real hispters shoot with like a beat up leica m2 and rolleicords:)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>True, Leslie, but maybe they'll just put a $5 pinhole on it :)</p>

<p>Was initially somewhat excited about it... though I divested from Nikon in the past year, I miss my FX sometimes.... I also kept a few lenses, including some Ai....</p>

<p>Then I look at my Oly OM-D E-M1 that arrived 4 days ago and ask myself..... why? The EM-1 looks 'retro" but is infinitely a modern camera and more customizable. Granted, it is not FX, but then again I am not a pro and DOF on my 75 f1.8 is good enough for my baby and cat :)</p>

<p>I am sure many people will be happy with it. I will still keep my preoder in the queue at B&H just in case I change my mind... it's not like that camera will be available anytime soon (though I don't expcet Leica M kind of delays, either)</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Harvey: Please report back? :-)<br />

<br />

Simon: I can't imagine this will appeal to most pro shooters anyway. For Nikon's sake, I hope it appeals to <i>someone</i> (and I hope Harvey doesn't regret it!)<br />

<br />

Hipsters may use an M2 and Rolleicord. I'm practical, and would like an M7 and a Rolleiflex. And a Sinar, and a Mamiya 7, and a pony (sorry, Christmas is starting to impinge on my consciousness). They can be beaten up, though. Except the pony. My F5 is missing a lot of paint, which is fine; so is my 135 f/2.8. Will rich hipsters be dragged away from their Ms and 'blads to this? I'll look forward to hearing. The jump to this from a film camera is going to be significant if people are actually moving from an F4.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

Approximately 100% is the best any camera can get; no optical viewfinder can be perfectly aligned.

[elliot1]

<p>Lets see, a great sensor in a nice looking body with only a good AF system, a single memory card slot and no video... There are better Nikon choices for less money IMHO.</p>

[Member69643]

<p>I read somewhere that airlines care not one iota about filling their coach seats. The coach section can be empty, but if all the first class seats sell, the flight makes money. </p>

[luke_kaven]

<blockquote>

<p>You're having a laugh, right?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Mike, of course the word "everyone" was an exaggeration. But at the same time, a /lot/ of people have been asking for a D4 in a D700-sized body with controls. I think it's a good spec for a small pro FX body, so long as the finder is up to snuff. I think it will have a market. They will realize the economic benefits of making their well worked-out D4 image pipeline in quantity. I also get the feeling this camera is designed not to become obsolete so quickly; it has the profile of a relatively mature product, and /no model number/. Given the D700's longevity, I think one can expect at least as much from the DF.</p>

[steven_p]

<p>If it were priced at a more consumer oriented level, I would have already ordered.<br>

The big, fat LCD on the back was also a bit of a let down. (I enjoy sans chimp screen mode for retro.)</p>

[Aoresteen]

 

<blockquote>

<p>I read somewhere that airlines care not one iota about filling their coach seats. The coach section can be empty, but if all the first class seats sell, the flight makes money.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Not true any more. Most 1st Class seats go to frequent fliers as upgrades to coach fares (at least on Delta).</p>

 

[virginia_john_mybusiness]

<p>I got my first Nikon in about 1960 and can't count how many I've had since. I have absolutely zero interest in this one, maybe less than zero. </p>

[ofey_kalakar]

<p>I like it! I also like available light photography! This fits the bill!<br>

No worries here!</p><div></div>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>But at the same time, a /lot/ of people have been asking for a D4 in a D700-sized body with controls.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The Df maybe very roughly similar in size as the D700, but it has anything but the D700's controls, or for that matter the D700's AF and frame rate.<br>

<br>

The Df is not exactly about photography. The emphasis is its retro styling. Again, its target is mainly collectors and those who find retro styling "cool."<br>

<br>

Those who think the Df's price will come down are merely dreaming. Concerning features, the Df is already "obsolete" the moment it is introduced: 16MP is very low in today's standards, Multi-CAM 4800 is not top of the line, there is no video, no dual memory cards ... and of course the controls are out of date by 2, 3 decades. However, retro, or obsolescence, is exactly the selling point. The Df will be like the FM3a and F6. Not many shoot film any more and even fewer need to get a new F6, but unlike the F5 and F100, the F6's price remains sky high for both new and used in mint condition.</p>

[Renee Shipley]

<p>Shun said:</p>

<p>...its target is mainly collectors and those who find retro styling "cool."</p>

<p>Yes, I thought of estate jewelry when I first saw the pictures. I also think that for the baby boomer wanting to travel or try a new hobby, it's a beautiful marriage of nostalgia & technology without getting mired in spec-ology.</p>

[Two23]

<p>The styling is the only thing I really like here. If this thing were smaller and they knocked a thousand off the price, I would be interested. I was hoping for a small Leica/Sony/Fuji sized camera that accepted F-mount. Instead, it's a D700 sized camera with a D800 price tag! Oh well. It's not like I actually NEED a new camera right now, LOL. The DF might be more of a boost to Zeiss lens sales than Nikon's. Ironic, no? It does have a high "cool factor," but so does the vintage Leica I like to use, for which I paid $500.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Although I owned a DSLR before I owned a film SLR and both before I owned a rangefinder (yes, I'm just about a young whippersnapper), I wouldn't mind playing with an FM3a, I'd like a Leica and an X100s, and if the F6 wasn't priced so extortionately I'd have one. But all these have the benefit that they're actually really good to use for a particular style of shooting - "retro" is only useful when it's not a synonym for "worse". I've no objection to different cameras for different uses. I've yet to understand the USP for this camera, although that doesn't mean it lacks one. (In the previous thread I suggested that Nikon had elected not to produce a number of other cameras that had been asked for. To be clear: I don't believe Nikon are idiots, and I assume that these decisions were rational and based on research to which I'm not privy.)</p>

[mlg28]

<p>After a week or so of using my D600, I started leaving my FE2 at home. The F100, FE2, and FM2 haven't been used in over a year, and the FA went on Ebay. The D600 is light and small, works well with my my AI'd lenses, my AI lenses, my AF-S lenses, and my AF-D lenses. The user interface is intuitive, after several years of shooting a D200 as my "good" digital camera. The only thing I don't like is that all 39 AF sensors are grouped in the center...might as well just have one.<br>

As much as I like the look and feel of old mechanical cameras, and as much as I'd like a dedicated knob for exposure compensation, I can't see paying that big a premium for it. The D600 and D610 do everything the Df does, plus more, for less money. All that extra money and the Df still has the lame AF sensor from the D600!<br>

Sorry, Nikon...I must've owned more than 10 Nikon bodies over the years, but this loyal customer is not buying a Df at that price. For *less* than a D610...maybe.</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<p>Nikon is, I think, VASTLY overestimating the number of people who will buy this camera that has the wrong sensor, the wrong AF module, and the wrong price.</p>

<p>Fire sale coming in the spring... $1500.00, get 'em while they're hot.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<blockquote>

<p>Not many shoot film any more and even fewer need to get a new F6, but unlike the F5 and F100, the F6's price remains sky high for both new and used in mint condition</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Then wouldn't the continued high prices for the F6 (and the FM3a, and the F100 isn't that cheap second hand either) suggest that the "retro" and film-shooting market is actually a bit bigger and a bit more serious than it might seem?<br>

The Df tries to fill a different niche than the other FX DSLRs. Fine, good thing. As said, I'm glad Nikon is trying, because apart from the cry for a DX-total-action-body (D400) there isn't much to add to the DSLR line-up at the moment. The normal models will only incrementally get better (D5200 to D5300 a perfect example) - urging us less and less to buy new cameras. And Nikon depends heavily on (selling) DSLRs - so, they'll have to move. This camera does make sense, even if it's appeal is more limited than that of a D800 or D610.</p>

<p>So, why these negative valuation of the possible buyers of the Df? What if people just really want the handling of their F2/F3/FM2/FM3 back rather than what the D610/D800 etc. offer? I can imagine this wish, and well, here it is. Price is steep, and that will remain a hurdle. But it looks like this model is going to be put in the market as a niche, rather than a more mainstream model (like a D610 or D7100). So even the high price, the missing features - it does not need to be a disaster. There is space for this. Fuji shows well enough the demand is there, I'd say. Leica is doing quite well these days. And also those Fuji's and Leicas are being used by serious photographers to make photos; they don't sit on a shelve.</p>

<p>Not all of us want and need the same thing. One can call my (beloved) AiS primes optically limited, crummy, old and bad - but they render me the photos in the way I like, while my new nanocoated stabilised zoom doesn't thrill me half as much. I like the feel of a F3 in my hands, the sound of its mirrorslap, the mechanical interface - using it just makes me happier. And in the end, that is a thing that matters a lot (especially for the non-pros). I can see the Df make people happy to be out and shooting, people that today cannot find the right camera.<br>

To each his own. Let's be glad Nikon added choice, rather than dismiss whoever will buy this new one.</p>

<p>Hmmmm..... I do sound like the perfect demographic for the Df now. And yet, I still don't want it. Maybe a Df3 :-)</p>

[bms]

Reading all the pros and mostly cons, and thinking about this more I think that while the camera may have some merits, the price is just

ridiculous. Preorder will get cancelled.... I'd rather add to my m4/3 arsenal, or even better, go on a nice photo trip....

[dan_brown4]

<p>I want one!</p>