photographers? not allowed on Mare Island, California (rant)

[sallymack]

I just returned from my weekly jaunt to Mare Island, former Naval shipyard, where I've been photographing for

almost 15 years. The shipyard was closed in 1996, de-commisioned a few years later, and turned over to the City

of Vallejo. Pictures of Mare Island buidlings and other industrial stuff can be seen on my website under <a href="http://www.sallymack.us/portfolio/industrial/">Industrial</a>.<br>

<br>

Through the years, I've been stopped by security guards and Vallejo police many times. They warn me politely

about safety and homeless people, I thank them, they go their way, and I go mine.<br>

<br>

Today, however, the security guard informed me that people "such as yourself" are not allowed on Mare Island. He

specifically commented on the camera around my neck and my bicycle. I wore a bright green biking jacket, was

walking my bike along side of a road on the outside of a fence surrounding a building. I was clearly not

breaking in or even entering the premises through a large hole in the chainlink fence.<br>

<br>

According to the security guard, cars driving through Mare Island are okay, but it's private property. The City

of Vallejo is trying to "clean out" the homeless people, it's for my own safety that people "such as yourself"

are not allowed on Mare Island.<br>

<br>

I'm writing a letter to the City Manager asking for clarification as to whom is allowed on Mare Island. Does

"people such as yourself" refer specifically to photographers? Bicyclists? Women? Is it extended to painters?

What about people visiting the St. Peter and Paul Chapel which houses the largest collection of Tiffany stained

glass west of the Mississippi? Or people at the Nature Preserve? How about bird-watchers who keep track of the

ospreys who nest on the construction cranes? What about people who work there, some of whom I've seen walking to work? Are people allowed to visit Alden Park? Wichels Park where there are picnic tables? I see people walking

their dogs out at Mare Island, are they considered "people such as yourself"? What about the people meandering

around, looking at the dry docks and reminiscing about when they worked on Mare Island? I'd guess that people

going to the golf course are not "such as yourself." What about the group of photographers from Santa Rosa I met

a few months ago who were taking a field trip to Mare Island, would they be allowed, now? There's an annual

Flyway Festival in the winter, celebrating migrating birds, I guess that will be cancelled, it consists of lots

of people like me roaming around, taking pictures.<br>

<br>

Yes, Mare Island dangerous. There are decrepit buildings, tons of rust, PCBs, asbestos, and, in some places,

live ordnance out by the golf course, but the worst I've experienced is a flat tire on my bike from riding over

glass.<br>

<br>

So, I'm going to calm down to write a letter (not e-mail) for a definition of "people such as yourself." I will

send a copy of the letter to the local newspaper (Vallejo <i>Times Herald</i>). All other suggestions

appreciated. Thanks. --Sally

[SCL]

<p>Not only write the letter, cc a copy to your local TV news station(s), radio station (s) and newspaper (s).</p>

[steve_t.1]

<p>Damn straight! Along with the other routes for clarification and publicity of this issue, if the letter to the City Manager nets no satisfactory result, a personal (and business-like) appearance in front of the city council should be considered.</p>

<p>Sounds like you met up with an over-zealous and under-trained security guard that does not know the true extent of his authority level.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>As me sainted Mom said, however,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Honey catches more flies than vinegar.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Don't assume that one security guard represents an official policy, but if you are too forceful you may push a reaction to actually set such a policy, even if none currently exists. First find out if there is such a policy and <em>then</em> start a campaign against it.</p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>Something slightly similar happened to me a few years ago when I was taking photos of old historic Toll house styled homes still occupied in an area of my local town made up primarily of politically active former city council members, teachers and one retired newspaper journalist. </p>

<p>It turns out my being on a bicycle which didn't have a license plate and no other visible means to ID me was the reason given to me by the police officer (called by one of the former city council members) for calling me over and asking to see my driver's license. He suggested I get permission first before taking pictures of people's houses from a public street which at the time I was doing before the officer hailed me over back onto the street. </p>

<p>Don't know if I'ld driven into the neighborhood with my car would've made any difference though.</p>

[colin carron]

<p>I'd agree with JDM on this one. That may have just been an overzealous guard and next time he may be in a better mood or he may have another job or you might not meet him. I suggest you could maybe try again and see what happens. </p>

[Hector Javkin]

<p>Good luck with this, Sally. As to the quote above:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Honey catches more flies than vinegar.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have to respond with the wisdom delivered by Woody Harrelson in the television show <em>Cheers</em>:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Actually, you catch the most flies with dead squirrels.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Which supports the idea of making a big stink.</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>^^^ You might catch flies with either honey or dead squirrels. You can try the honey first, and if that doesn't work, you can always drag out the squirrels. However, once you've waved around a dead squirrel to no avail, the honey never works.</p>

<p>My advice would be to ask as nicely as possible for clarification on this issue. If (and only if) the answers indicate misguided policies, start taking notes, ask for spellings of names, etc. -- so that you'll have your facts straight for when you write your letter to the editor about their moronic, paranoid and discriminatory policies.</p>

[john_h.1]

I agree with everyone but there is a point were being too nice results in appearing to be a inquisitive but meek. Nice but leaving no room for wiggling out of it is a favored approach. Getting them think that they came to the conclusion you want on their own... That's finesse.

[frode]

<blockquote>

<p>it's for my own safety that people "such as yourself" are not allowed on Mare Island.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Could it be that he / she was referring to the security risks that the security guards out there constitute to people "such as yourself"? |-D</p>

<p>Interesting reading!</p>

<p>Best wishes,<br>

Frode</p>

[chris_waller]

<p>When I was a kid back in the 1950s, I used to hang around the local railway yard watching trains being marshalled. If work was a bit slack then quite often the engine-driver would invite me up into the cab and I stand in the back as we trundled up and down the sidings. In my early teens I used to visit the old brickyards in our area to look at the steam-engines which still powered many of them. Could you see that happening today?</p>

[JDMvW]

<blockquote>

<p>However, once you've waved around a dead squirrel to no avail, the honey never works.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thank you, Sarah.</p>

<p>I once had an associate (no one could exactly call him a "friend") who would be rude to a waiter <em>before</em> his food was served.<br>

After launching the missiles, further options are limited, and it's really nice to know that your attack is justified before going there.</p>

 

[User_6502147]

<p>I think this is worth pursuing, Sarah. JDM might be right on the target. It would be helpful if the security guard could provide you something <strong>in writing</strong> (fresh policy or his overreaction ?). </p>

<p>Similarly, I got super annoyed once, when I contacted our mayor....I was prevented from entering a court house (and other offices) because I used expired passport. The very same passport that was totally OK'd by the border patrol (VAN-Seattle) to enter US or Canada with.</p>

<p>Les</p>

[dan_south]

Did you contact the police or the guard's supervisor to see if perhaps he might just have been mistaken? Perhaps he's

new and not experienced in such matters. Did you try to work things out calmly and rationally before you started

posting rants (your word, not mine) on the Internet, writing letters to the editor, etc? You may be causing more trouble

for yourself in the long run by coming across as unreasonable.

[shutterbud]

I wonder if the guard thought that "people like you" needed protecting from possible assault or if he didn't want "middle class cycing ecofreaks" in his area of responsibilty.

[sallymack]

Hi, all, Thanks for your thoughts.<br>

<br>

I wrote a brief e-mail to the city manager, stating only that I'd been stopped by a security guard who'd told me that I wasn't doing anything "wrong" and that a new policy is in place which does not allow people "such as [my]self" on Mare Island. I asked politely if there is such a policy, how it originated (vote? by whom?), the reasoning behind it, and how I could obtain a copy of it. Also, I'd like a definition of person "such as [my]self." Acknowledging that there might be confidentiality issues, I asked if it were possible to see the contract with the security company.<br>

<br>

Asking for information, only, not looking to catch any flies. --Sally

[Brad_]

>>> people "such as yourself"

 

Photographers who trespass by breaching fences and other barriers/signs in order to explore delapidated/closed buildings to take photographs (and in the process possibly expose themselves to various perils, and the property owner liability)? That's my take (as someone who has engaged in that).

 

What's your guess?

[Tim_Lookingbill]

 

 

<blockquote>

<p>I wonder if the guard thought that "people like you" needed protecting from possible assault or if he didn't want <strong>"middle class cycling ecofreaks"</strong> in his area of responsibilty.</p>

</blockquote>

Thanks for that one, Stephen. I like how it roles off the tongue. Now I know what I'm going to put on my bicycle license plates. A much more preferable I.D. indeed!

 

At least it'll make 'em wonder about me as I leer at them on my bike while taking their picture.

 

 

 

 

[unangelino]

<p>In my experience (mostly at train stations) guards have no idea of the facility's policy let alone any laws respective to photography. My play has always been to be polite to the badge wearer but follow up with a letter asking for a copy of the policy. Once I have the policy in hand it's been easy to show it to badge wearers I've come across later who really could not possibly care less and always let me keep shooting.<br>

More often than not, I find badge wearers are predisposed to react without knowing.<br>

I try not to so the same.</p>

[sallymack]

Thanks, again.

 

I've been trying to get a copy of the policy and a definition of who is and isn't allowed on city streets, which the security guard declared were "private property owned by the city," and can't get a response. I was told only that breaking into the buildings, which I don't do and wasn't doing at the time I was stopped, is illegal and I can be arrested.

 

It's apparently a secret policy that persons such as myself know we're violating only after we've violated it. --Sally

[david_levine6]

<p>Something similar happened to me back in November 2013 and as I result, I will no longer step foot on that island as the armed rent a cops are not trained and are out of control - they're worse than the criminals as far as I can tell. Here's what happened.<br /> <br /> I was driving my car on railroad ave, returning from my office location elsewhere on the island, when I pulled over for 2-3 minutes to look up directions on my mobile phone. I stopped a few hundred feed from the highway entrance. While I was there, a rent-a-cop asshole pulled up in his car behind me, walked over, and asked to see my id. I asked him what was wrong. He would not explain and demanded to see my id.<br /> <br /> He then started falsely accusing me of dumping a big load of trash on the other side of the road, which I was the first I even saw this trash. He started taking pictures of me and my car, and the trash, and asked me to step out of my car. I started to take a picture of him, and he threatened to arrest me. He has my id and a gun, so I'm doing what he asks. Then he wants to search through the trunk of my car. I tell him no way, not without a warrant. The guy tells me he has the power to arrest me if I don't do what he asks.<br /> <br /> So I called 911, and with the real cops on the phone, I ask the guy to let me go. If he hadn't agreed to let me go, I probably would have gotten back in my car anyway without my license, even with his threats to arrest me and I would have driven off from this mad man with a gun.<br /> <br /> I called the Vallejo police to complain, but they don't take complaints about this. As far as I can see, this situation is condoned by the local authorities.<br /> <br /> That's ok with me. It's a loss for the island. I refuse to be somewhere where normal law does not apply, and I can be detained by threat of force, falsely accused of something, and have someone threaten to arrest me for something I didn't do.<br /> <br /> Alternatively, I may pack my own gun next time I'm on the island to protect myself from the rent a cops.</p>

[sylvester_r.]

<p>I had been taking pictures at Mare Island all the way up 'til about September 2013 without incident. It was around that time that the city spray-painted big, red "No Trespassing" signs on all abandoned buildings, and started arresting and charging the homeless who lived there with trespassing. They also began clearing out and demolishing the collapsed and burned-out structures that remained.</p>

<p>When I went last week (third week in January 2014) for a shoot, no sooner had I driven onto the island when a rent-a-cop pulled me over and asked me why I was there. When I told him I was there to take pictures, he replied, "I'd better not catch you trespassing. Read the signs." After he got back into his car, he followed me around until I was able to shake him off. I noticed that old parking lots now had signs at their entrances, forbidding trespassing. The rent-a-cops on that island are totally ridiculous.</p>

<p>Does anyone know if a special permit is required now? I'd love to shove it in his smug face.</p>

[sallymack]

Hi, Sylvester,<br>

<br>

It might depend on where on Mare Island you're photographing. There are two different "sets" of security guards at MI, I don't know if the Vallejo PD patrols out there since Black Talon was contracted by the City of Vallejo.<br>

<br>

The big, red "No Trespassing" signs you mentioned are painted mainly on buildings north of "G" Street (Tennessee St on the Vallejo side, the street conntect with the bridge named Wichels Causeway). That's where the most obviously derelict buildings are, with broken windows, forced-open doors, graffiti, needles, broken glass, etc. (Sounds charming, doesn't it?) It's the most deserted part of MI with only a few companies occupying a few of the large buildings. <br>

<br>

That's where I ran into the security guard from Black Talon. Google them and you'll see what nice folks they are (sarcasm). <br>

<br>

The security guards south of "G" street are a different bunch, less aggressive (from what I can tell), mostly drive around, making sure people aren't breaking into buildings.<br>

<br>

I haven't noticed much "clearing out and demolishing the collapsed and burned-out structures," maybe a few but the City of Vallejo doesn't have the funding to do the necessary clean-up. Another problem is that of trash being dumped out there. It looks like a place to dump trash, right, big, industrial trash from demolishing buildings elsewhere in the Bay Area. Theoretically, Black Talon is supposed to help prevent trash-dumping but, mostly, from what I've heard, they harass people (you must be a person "like myself" if you're being harassed). A bicyclist friend was being harassed so much he requested to be ticketed or arrested and was told the guard didn't have the authority to do that. The friend was riding his bike on a bike path when he was stopped.<br>

<br>

<q>Does anyone know if a special permit is required now? I'd love to shove it in his smug face.</q><br>

<br>I've been unable to locate the contract with Black Talon or the city "policy" that authorizes the violation of civil rights. If there's a permit, I don't know about it. If anyone else does, please contact me. Thanks. --Sally<br>

[celeste_adine]

<p>I was harassed once for taking a photo of an old door from the parking lot across the street from the building with the door. The guard said I was trespassing on private property. I looked down, saw where I was standing, and literally took one small step which put me onto the public street. I couldn't believe anyone could be so petty about me being a few inches off the public street. There wasn't a no trespassing sign. If it's that important, why not put up a fence? </p>

<p>I've also been harassed 2 times on Mare Island for simply walking my dog.</p>

<p>The first time was a couple of months ago when I was walking on what I thought was a public street at Touro University. The security guard pulled up in a Universal Protection truck and said Touro doesn't allow dogs so I immediately left.</p>

<p>Afterwards I sent the city 2 emails about 2 weeks apart to different email addresses asking whether or not the streets at Touro were public or private. A simple question, no? I got zero response. Yesterday I visited the city public works department in person to ask my question: are the streets at Touro public or private? I was told they are definitely public streets maintained by the city but that the main street, (Moises, I assume), will become a private street in the future but only after a lot of public notice is given out about the change. I then asked if Touro has a legal right to tell people they cannot walk their dog on a public street or set any other rules for accessing public streets. The person I spoke to said they'd research it and get back to me.</p>

<p>In the meantime, today I was stopped while walking on Nimitz Ave and told by a very angry security guard that said I shouldn't be walking my dog there because it's a "construction zone". I slowly turned 360 degrees and could see no evidence of any construction. (At the moment, there is a section of Nimitz is not accessible to the public due to earthquake damage but I was well outside that section.) When tried to ask what city ordinance I was violating by being on the publicly accessible part of a public street and why a construction zone wasn't marked as such, he just kept angrily talking over me and would not answer questions. He seemed strangely upset, way out of proportion to the circumstances, so I just walked on down Nimitz to get away from him. Never had anyone harass me for walking on Nimitz before in all the many years I've walked down that street. Oddly, the security guard wasn't stopping any cars that were driving on Nimitz, just me, the pedestrian with a dog.</p>

<p>I sent an email to the person I spoke to in person yesterday at the city asking her to include Nimitz on the list of streets where, similar to the streets at Touro, you can't walk with or without a dog.</p>

<p>Later today, I got a call from someone at the city in response to my email and inquiry from yesterday. This person told me the exact opposite of what I was told in person at the public works department. He said all the streets at Touro are private and all street maintenance and repairs are done by Touro. So I'm back to square one and have no idea if those streets are public or private. Is there such thing as sending a Freedom of Information Act request to a city? I think that's the only way I'll get my questions answered.</p>

<p>In regards to being stopped by the security guard today, the person on the phone was no help there either. I kept asking under what ordinance pedestrians are not allowed to walk on the publicly accessible section of Nimitz that cars are allowed to drive on, but the person on the phone kept conflating my question with earthquake damage and saying the security guards are just trying to keep everyone safe by preventing them from walking in areas where masonry may fall and injure them. I repeatedly tried to point out my question was unrelated to earthquake damage. Either pedestrians are allowed to walk on Nimitz or they aren't. Which is it? And if not, what's the governing ordinance? Couldn't get an answer. He told me to contact Universal, the very people who are violating my civil rights. The one helpful thing piece of information I got from the phone call is that Lennar hired Universal Protection Services, not the city.</p>

<p>One other weird incident that I witnessed. A delivery van apparently broke down on Azuar and was off to the side of the road. You know how companies with fleets of vehicles often have their own repair truck that goes out when a fleet vehicle breaks down? There was a truck like that behind the broken down vehicle. I could see that it was carrying all sorts of tools. There were 2 guys who where clearly working on the broken down van. When you've got a business that uses delivery vans, you can't afford to have one broken down by the side of the road. I saw a Universal Protection truck pass them, then pull a U turn then park illegally (as opposed to the delivery van and truck which were parked legally). The security guard got out and was making a big show of quickly walking all around them taking pictures or video of the 2 guys and the 2 vehicles. He'd walk up very close and take photos then back away and take more photos. Back and forth, around and around he went. He looked totally deranged.</p>

<p>I think this is one of those situations where the city hopes anyone with a complaint will simply give up and go away. Until the city gets sued for civil rights violations for not allowing citizens to walk or ride bikes or take photos on public streets without being harassed by private security guards who are just citizens like the rest of us and have zero authority to tell us to leave public areas, the city won't bother to address the situation. Maybe it will take some sort of restraining order.</p>

<p>Perhaps an organized civil action might bring attention to the issue, like dozens of people walking their dogs on Nimitz all at the same time carrying signs demanding the right not to be harassed on public property. Or a large number of photographers going from one public area to another taking photos and video, especially of the security guard(s) that show up to harass them for being on public property.</p>

[sallymack]

Hi, Celeste, you're right, the security guards, poorly trained, don't know the laws, how to deal with people, and are unaccountable for their actions. You can Google "Black Talon" to see the kind of folks you're dealing with.

 

I would guess that Tuoro University is private property but on public streets.

 

I would also guess that "security" is heightened after a couple of recent big fires and the earthquake last weekend.

 

--Sally