Panoramic Pictures

[stevenseelig]

<p>I am dabbling in panoramic photography (focus is portrait/wedding in reality) and I am using a <br>

D800 with 24-70 f2.8 and an L bracket<br>

a PC-LR: Panning Clamp with level release<br>

and MPR-CL: MPR with integral clamp as a nodal slider<br>

(You can see these two items at http://reallyrightstuff.com/Items.aspx?code=PanoComponents&key=cat)<br>

Tripod<br>

Both the PC-LR and MPR-CL have bubble leveling elements. <br>

My question: When I adjust the level of the ball head so that the bubble levels are in the center, I find that tightening the ball head tends to cause a bit of a shift in the level. I am wondering whether there is a high quality screw based leveling device that could be placed between the tripod and the panning clamp that might facilitate the actual leveling process.<br>

Thanks.</p>

[howard_m]

<p>which ballhead are you using? In general, if you dont have stuff 'close' to the camera, you dont really need a nodal slide.</p>

<p>I use this as a leveling base:<br>

http://acratech.net/home.php?cat=2</p>

[stevenseelig]

<p>This may be ridiculous but I was trying to use the MeFOTO Q0 tripod and head. I have an Arca Swiss Monoball Z1 head but weight for a trip was an issue.</p>

[jcuknz]

<p>I have done dozens of panoramic images and never used more than my hands to hold the camera .. though it does mean some work in my editor lining up and merging the images.<br />People get carried away with gadgets seeking silver bullets I am afraid.<br>

Judging from your link people make a lot of money dealing with people who cannot keep it simple LOL</p>

[stevenseelig]

<p>I too have used a handheld process for panoramics and yes it does work, but I am in search of information on 'the best possible techniques and strategy', rather than what one can get away with.</p>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>Hi Steven. . . . Honestly I'm a lazy guy to bother with all this, and I shooting panoramas, sometime multi layer panoramas, hand held, no tripod, and you can see all my panoramas in my folder. Never had a problem, but I know why it is important the nodal point. Some of my panoramas is an extreme panorama, with a fast moving track in the picture, or birds. You have to level your camera horizontally, or imaginary horizon, and move the camera along that line, following the horizon or artificial, imagined horizon. Before you shoot, you have to imagine the whole image in-front of you, and as necessary, divid the scenery to overlapping frames. Simple, as 1+2. The computer do the rest, (PS-CS5) and then the editor, you. Try it and you would see it is not difficult at all, exception, if you have a near subject in the picture. And also, you have to set your camera on manual focus, manual exposure, otherwise if the intended panorama has big lighting difference, you going to haw an uneven exposure, using "A" aperture priority mode. Or, your lens autofocus going to change according, what is in-front of the lens. Witch, you don't want to happen.<br /> Have a happy panorama shooting.<br /> The track was doing, at list a 90-100km/h. It is a straight highway, the 180 degree panorama shoot make the curved distortion.</p><div></div>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>Panorama-2</p><div></div>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>Vertical panorama.</p><div></div>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>I perfectly agree with JC Uknz. Don't bother, just go out and shoot. Very sun, you going to learn the trick, couple of practice and you going to be a happy panorama shooter.</p>

<div></div>

[stevenseelig]

<p>Hi,<br>

I appreciate the comments of Bela and JC, but you have failed to address my question that I have asked.<br>

Yes, I really really do understand handheld panoramic imaging as everything said I have used thus far. If you want to expand on your hand held strategy, that would be great and I will certainly learn from it. BUT, I am most curious as to best technical/stategies for leveling, either on a tripod or not, and more specifically on a tripod.<br>

Thanks for the comments.</p>

[stevenseelig]

<p>This is a hand held panoramic across about a 160 degree angle. I really really do understand it can be done handheld, but is not my question</p><div></div>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Steven, since this is a fairly advanced technique I hope you won't mind if I move this thread from the beginner forum to a forum that might attract more viewers with experience doing panoramics.</p>

[stevenseelig]

<p>Lex, that is fine. I was not quite sure where to post it anyway.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Nikon made a panorama tripod head. These have a level and can be used to do panoramas the "old-fashioned way" since you insist on it.<br>

<img src="data:image/jpeg;base64,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" alt="" /></p>

<p>Turn up fairly often on eBay and occasionally at places like KEH.</p>

[MathewDH]

<p>My first thought was like others as my shots are usually handheld, whether it is with a Canon 10D for infrared or my Pentax 645D for color. However, there are several factors that will effect the look of the image.</p>

<p>1. Lens type. A wide angle lens that I use most of the time like the 24-70 F2.8L will create distortion in the image. It really depends on the angle that the camera is at relative to the subject. This can lead to severe distortion on very wide panoramics after the stitching stage. Shooting flat across the plane of view is usually not a problem. Shooting upwards at an angle while panning sideways makes the perspective distortion a serious issue when stitching as curved lines may not be matched.</p>

<p>It can also effect the vertical lines on a vertical set of stitched photos. Shooting a very tall structure, as you raise the camera angle, there is some perspective distortion through the lens as well as natural perspective distortion of converging lines of the subject -- such as skyscrapers. For such shots you need to shoot more photos with less vertical movement between shots. This minimizes the perspective distortion between each overlapping shot. If using PTgui, like I do, this will allow the software to keep the lines together. Then after the stitch you can correct the perspective distortion for a better looking image.</p>

<p>2. Vertical photo shooting. I find with flat shots that add up to a very wide image of around 180 degrees or more, you will run into the look as your first image appears. You might be able to minimize this effect by setting the camera to vertical and taking a lot more shots to get the total panoramic scene.</p>

<p>3. Stitching types. Most stitching softwares have several different types of mathematical models that can be applied to the images during stitching. You will need to observe how they effect the image look to determine which will work best, and then allow for cropping to the final photo. It is also wise to actually capture a wider area of coverage since cropping will have to be done. Sometimes too, not one thing you do will make it work.</p>

<p>I cannot say how the above observations will be effected by a prime lens. I have one but have rarely shot with it.</p>

<p>If you look at my album of only five photos, you will find three that are panoramic. One was from laying down on the ground at the base of the Space Needle and the other two are vertical stitches of the tallest skyscraper in Seattle. One shot of the skyscraper is from the I-5 overpass at Yesler, the other is the corner opposite the Seattle Public Library. Those two panoramics are from a normal hand held position and stacked vertically with lots of overlap, as described above. The Space Needle I believe is shot flat panned sideways and handheld.</p>

<p>CHEERS...Mathew</p>

<p> </p>

[stevenseelig]

<p>JDM....can you provide a link to the image you provided</p>

<p>Matthew....#2 Whose image are you referring to with respect to the effect you speak. How much artifact do you perceive the image that I posted. Lots, little and why?</p>

[ChrisSpeaker]

<p>Steven,<br>

Did you try just using the Arca-Swiss Z1 instead you mentioned that you already own? Could be the cheapest way out since I can't image a ball head moving off level just from locking it.</p>

[dan_south]

<p>I don't do a lot of pans, but I've shot them both tripod mounted and hand held with good results. I don't use special panning equipment because my panning subjects are usually distant from the camera. There are no foreground objects that demand rotation around a nodal point.</p>

<p>I rotate the camera on my RRS BH-55 ball head. I've seen awesome pans taken with a camera steadied against a railing or a stone wall. It should work fine if you have good, dedicated panning software (not PS) and you leave some extra room on all sides for cropping, leveling, and distortion correction. </p>

<p>Although most of my work is single shots, I like to shoot with a level camera whenever possible. Ball heads always have a bit of play in them no matter how well engineered they are. The RRS heads are the best heads that I've used in this regard, but I still need to adjust the camera carefully to get it perfectly level. I don't think that you're going to find something that works better unless it's extremely heavy and expensive. The Luminous Landscape folks have mentioned some sort of ultra-expensive cube head, but I don't know if it's suitable for pans.</p>

<p>Instead of using bubble levels, I now rely on the level built into the D800 (accessible via Live View/Info button). It's extremely sensitive and easy to read. I've used the 24-70 2.8 G for pans, but if I were a serious panning enthusiast, I would probably use a prime lens to minimize distortion.</p>

<p>I don't know if this answered the question to your satisfaction, but these are the techniques that work for me.</p>

 

[SCL]

<p>I use the Jasper Engineering http://www.stereoscopy.com/jasper/panorama.html Panorama device which is levelled independently of the tripod head. I would think that your present Pano item could achieve a similar result if it rotates about a fixed point (the point where the tripod is attached), by adding a circular bubble level to the distal end such as shown in the Jasper photo.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>That's my own picture of the one I have and I apparently threw away any larger versions, but if you Google™ "Nikon Panorama Head" you get<br>

<a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=Nikon+panorama+head&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a">https://www.google.com/search?q=Nikon+panorama+head&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a</a><br>

Its Nikon item number is AP-2</p>

[virginia_john_mybusiness]

<p>I agree to using a handheld approach and relying on the stitching software. I use Autopanopro, FYI.</p>

[rossb]

<p> I have an acratech base leveler. Mine is quiet old and the model is surely discontinued. What I have found is when I align the base level bubble and then tighten the clamp the bubble will move slightly. But it's predictable and I learned to get it set properly after a couple attempts.. Once set then your panoramic shots will be level. As far as a higher quality base leveler I am sure they are out there but I have no experience with them. I also found that sufficient focal length to avoid distortion was of great help when stitching. </p>

<p>I think a high quality panoramic would be a great shot for a wedding couple to have. </p>

 

[stevenseelig]

Ross.. The movement with tighten of ball head is the problem I am trying to solve. I have not been able to make the movement sufficient

reproducible to make that a good solution

 

I will try the Arca Swiss head to see if the movement is less.

 

Does anyone have any experience with the Manfrotto 338(I think that is the right number)

[bernard_lazareff]

<p>If you really insist on going technical, rather than the levelling of the camera (the stitching software will take care of it), it's more important (in case parts of the subject are closer than "infinity") to keep the entrance pupil (and not the nodal point as everyone repeats) fixed in space. That is to avoid parallax mismatch between overlapping images. There are ad hoc brackets commercially available.</p>

[jim_service]

<p>When I first started with panos, stitching software was unavailable so getting shots as perfect as possible was all important because the stitching was done by hand. Using my ball head was (and still is, for me) out of the question since I would inevitably introduce a tiny bit of tilt every time i moved it. A 3-way pan/tilt head was the only answer. The idea was to lock the vertical and axial tilt to zero, level the base by adjusting the length of the legs. I could check for plumb by watching the horizon through the eyepiece while swinging the camera back and forth through the proposed image.<br>

Perhaps the same thing could be done with a ballhead by locking it as level as possible and rotating it around a slightly loosened center post.<br>

As I remember, my biggest pano was 14 shots and resulted in 10 11x14 vertical prints tiled side by side. I had to do the stitching and matching (brightness, color and contrast) in sections (1-5, 3-7, 5-9, etc.) since my computer didn't have enough ram.</p>