Brokerage fees USA -> Canada

[patrick_schmidt1]

<p>Hi There,<br>

<br />I recently purchased an item from Adorama and had it shipped via UPS (as it was the "cheapest" option) but now the item is requiring brokerage for cross-border shipment. Following some research here, I should have chosen a little better option, but such is life. <br>

Anyway, the item is currently at the border and they want to know if I want to use them as the broker. I'm not sure if I really have any choice as I don't know of any services that could handle the brokerage. Any advice?<br>

The item was $950, meaning I have to pay at least 13% of that for Ontario HST (ridiculous) plus whatever brokerage fees are applied. UPS has quoted me about $80 for brokerage. <br>

<br />Thanks in advance!</p>

<p>Patrick</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>What a rip-off. $80! I stopped using UPS and Fedex for that reason. I know it is late to do much, but I stopped using B&H and Adorama because they refused to use insured and trackable USPS mail, which has no brokerage fees (The Canadian tax you have to pay on anything over about $80 or $100, as the provinces have the Canadian customs collect it for them).</p>

<p>In future, I would check with Canadian stores like Vistek or Henry's, or buy outside your province of province (as from Quebec, Alberta, etc.) as they will normally only charge you federal GST (5%) tax but usually not the PST. Some items are a fair bit more expensive in Canada, but not all. Don't forget also that you might have to have the item repaired under warranty at some point within the guarantee period.</p>

[andylynn]

<p>Wow. I thought we had a free trade agreement with you guys? :)</p>

[AJHingel]

<p><a href="http://shiptotheborder.com/taxes-duty-and-brokerage-fees">Read this</a> about taxes, duties and brokerage fees on products purchased in the US and brought into Canada. Nafta surely, but no "free trade" for ordinary people. </p>

[helen_oster]

<p>We do actually offer shipping via USPS, provided the value of the order is $195 or under.</p>

<p>We also offer shipping via Bilsi, as reported here: http://www.photoprice.ca/article/adorama-cheap-ground-shipping-tax-duty<br>

Adorama Calculates the Tax & Duty & Brokerage, and charges you at time of sale. That means the final price you pay to Adorama is the final price to you. No more surprises, and no worrying about the tax bill from your courier when your shipment arrives. </p>

<p>From about 180,000 different products available, only a fraction where we cannot establish a country of origin will be ineligible for this service.</p>

<p>If you are new to buying from the US, you can also read the photoprice.ca article about Tax, Duty, and Brokerage Fees when buying from the US.<br /> <br /> http://www.photoprice.ca/article/tax-duty-brokerage-demystified<br>

<br>

Helen Oster<br>

Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<br>

Helen@adorama.com</p>

[c_watson1]

<p><strong>Don't</strong> use UPS for US>Canada purchases. Try B&H who uses Purolator: fast, full-disclosure on brokerage, taxes, shipping charges. "Cheap" UPS Ground is an oxymoron for Canadians buying from the US.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>"<em>I would check with Canadian stores like Vistek or Henry's, or buy outside your province of province (as from Quebec, Alberta, etc.) as they will normally only charge you federal GST (5%) tax but usually not the PST. Some items are a fair bit more expensive in Canada, but not all</em>."</p>

<p>Photoprice.ca helps to sort prices. If they stock what you're after, BestBuy.ca price matches and knocks 10% of the difference off the lowest price. Smaller downtown Toronto stores like Aden and Downtown Camera usually beat Henry's and Vistek's pricing. The old GST-only deal for out-of-province purchases is over. Pricing is all over the place now. Around and after Xmas, Nikon D7000 bodies were quite a bit cheaper around Toronto+Montreal than anywhere legit in the US.</p>

[Michael R Freeman]

<blockquote>

<p><em>I thought we had a free trade agreement...</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Has nothing to do with free trade. Has everything to do with <strong>UPS</strong> royally screwing the Canadian customer on ground (UPS Standard) shipments. The shipment will be duty free, but UPS will charge escalating bogus "entry prep" fees to collect the sales tax and prepare a computer generated one page customs form.</p>

<p>UPS are cross-border shipping scum (and that's the nicest mixed company term that I can use here to describe them). These lowlifes even have the gall add a COD fee to their invoice. Yes, they charge a fee for collecting their fees.</p>

<p>In many instances the total shipping/brokerage fees for a UPS Standard (ground) shipment will EXCEED the cost of the same shipment by UPS Expedited (air), which includes customs clearance in the shipping fee (no "entry prep" bs).</p>

<p>Apparently if you are close to a CBSA office, you can elect to "broker" the shipment yourself by having it shipped to that office for clearance, but for most people that's not a convenient option. And UPS knows that. They have you "by the short and curlies".</p>

[railphotog]

<p>I learned a long time ago never to choose UPS to send something to me in Canada. I paid their $35.00 rip-off fee for a $150.00 item some time ago. Never again!</p>

<p> </p>

[andylynn]

<p>UPS doesn't seem like a service that's at all oriented toward providing good and affordable service to individuals. I imagine they give good rates to large companies that regularly fill whole UPS trucks from one warehouse dock, but I do a lot of eBay selling and when you run the numbers USPS is always much cheaper. They've also recently made some changes to their international options and offer a cheap service to Canada that has tracking.</p>

<p>Is this brokerage thing a uniquely Canadian phenomenon? It doesn't seem to exist in the US.</p>

[qalam]

I stopped using UPS years ago, mainly because of their brokerage scam. When possible, I ask for USPS delivery of small

items to Canada. Otherwise, I prefer Purolator.

 

The best method is to use a supplier who (like B&H) has an agreement with Canada Customs and Revenue that allows

them to charge you a final price that includes all customs, taxes and handling charges. You never pay any additional

charge and you know the final price before you hit the buy button.

[helen_oster]

<p>.... or use a supplier like Adorama, who uses Bilsi for the exact same service - see above! As reported here: <a href="http://www.photoprice.ca/article/adorama-cheap-ground-shipping-tax-duty" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.photoprice.ca/article/adorama-cheap-ground-shipping-tax-duty</a></p>

[henryp]

<blockquote>

<p>Try B&H who uses Purolator: fast, full-disclosure on brokerage, taxes, shipping charges.<br>

<br />The best method is to use a supplier who (like B&H) has an agreement with Canada Customs and Revenue that allows them to charge you a final price that includes all customs, taxes and handling charges. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thank you. I like to keep things as inexpensive as possible too but if we have to choose between cheap and safe + reliable we'll opt for safe + reliable every time.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I stopped using B&H and Adorama because they refused to use insured and trackable USPS mail...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>YMMV but my experience is USPS is by far the slowest shipping option, their online package tracking system is just terrible and if a package is damaged or mislaid in transit they're very slow to complete resolving the problem.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

[stephen_mcpherson]

<p>I too have felt the pain of purchasing items in the US for shipment into Canada. While my purchases have offered me substantial savings over buying in the Toronto area, I'm not terribly happy with the brokerage fees charged by UPS - they are definitely gouging the customer - I used to be in the cross border freight business. In future, I'll use Bilsi or more preferably Purolator.<br>

It would be most helpful to Canadian customers if companies like Adorama advised up front on what to expect from UPS Ground and were a little smarter about packaging up their shipments. I ended up paying 3 separate brokerage fees from UPS because the product was shipped in 3 boxes under 3 separate shipping orders. If the shipper had used one shipping order for a shipment of 3 boxes it would have saved me some money.<br>

I've found that my local Henry's store is happy to price match on a lot of purchases I make, so I still buy local as much as possible but for some items they are so much less in the US, e.g., lighting.</p>

 

[patrick_schmidt1]

<p>Thanks for all the answers. Helen I am confused by your response with using the "Bilsi" service. This option was not available for the item I purchased. I saw something like this. Of course, one would look at this list and choose the cheapest option with no other notifications to suggest a better, cheaper option.<br /> - UPS Worldwide Express: $44.10<br /> -FedEx Int'l Economy $89.10<br /> -FedEx Int't Priority $107.10<br>

If you're going to advertise that all Canadian taxes, duties, brokerage fees are included in a purchse, you better make certian that it is for all type of purchases or explain the caveat.<br>

<label for="shipping-F2A"></label><label for="shipping-F2A"></label>I would have purchased the item in Canada, if it could have been found. I was looking for a used Noblex 150 medium format panoramic camera. The adorama price was $950, but with all shipping and brokerage (that I currently know of) it will be at least $200 more. The next cheapest option was ebay for $1250 and I'm not too comfortable buying that type of equipment from there.</p>

[helen_oster]

<p>Can you email me with your order number, Patrick? So I look at your order more closely.</p>

<p>Helen@adorama.com</p>

[patrick_schmidt1]

<p>Certainly, thanks for your attention.</p>

[warren_wilson]

<p>Andy: <br>

The free trade agreement applies to duties. If we Canadians buy an item from the USA that was manufactured in the USA, there is no duty at the border. That is reasonably reciprocal and means both countries have bigger markets for their products. In theory.</p>

<p>But photographic items made in Asia are not duty-free, and buying them through a USA dealer offers no economy, as there is the tariff to pay. For that reason I seldom buy from overseas (AKA the USA or Japan) unless it is a smokin deal. </p>

<p>There is no escaping PST and GST: because you are deeply dedicated to fattening provincial coffers and you will self declare even if it were not collected at the border. I am sure many of us fight on an hourly basis the urge to offer money to our governments. This impulse is no doubt felt equally on both sides of the border.<br>

: > )</p>

 

[aplumpton]

<blockquote>

<p>The old GST-only deal for out-of-province purchases is over. </p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>C.Watson: Thanks for the buying information options, but with reference to the above statement I heard on one of the forums an example of one important purchase (last year) where the out of province buyer was exempted from PST on an item. It may vary between sellers, though, as some may not credit that on out of province sales (as they do in inter-state sales in the USA).</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Hearsay aside, this is the way things, by law, work now:</p>

<p>http://www.canadabusiness.ca/eng/page/2651/#toc-_charging_sales_tax_to_out-of-province_territory_customers</p>

<p>In particular:</p>

<p><em>If you are a vendor in one province or territory and you make sales to residents of another province or territory, what sales taxes do you charge them? When you sell and ship or deliver taxable goods and services to out-of-province/territory customers, the sales tax that applies in your customer's province or territory is generally applicable.</em></p>

[bobatkins]

<p>In the USA you are not exempt from sales tax when buying across state lines unless your state doesn't charge sales tax. Some states have reciprocal agreements, but even when they don't you are still supposed to report all out of state purchases on your state income tax and pay the tax to the state in which you live. If a business has any physical presence in the state in which the purchaser lives, the business must collect sales tax. Even when there is no physical presence some companies (mainly Amazon) have agreed to collect sales tax rather then fight the state in court over the issue of whether having internet affiliates in a state counts as a "physical presence"</p>

<p>The fact that most people don't pay uncollected sales tax doesn't make it legal! There have been times, for example, when New Jersey has gained access to NY state sales records and sent a bill for tax due to NJ purchasers who bought by mail order from New York (the big camera stores in NYC) and didn't pay any sales tax at the time of purchase.</p>

<p>I presume that eventually everyone will have sales tax added at the time of sale, no matter what state they are purchasing from. The only exception would then be if you live in a state with no sales tax (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon).<br>

<br>

At least we don't have to pay import duty and brokerage fees shipping form state to state. Or at least not yet. I'm sure if they could figure out a legal way to do it, they would.</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>CW, I am refering mainly to a Quebecker buying from say Vistek Toronto, another Ontario store, or that in any other province (but Quebec of course).</p>

<p>This is what your link says. It accords with what I've heard. I did not look at the other provinces of destination.</p>

<p>"You must register to collect and remit the Quebec sales tax (QST) only when you have operation in the province (such as production or marketing activities), when you hire an employee and/or when you have an address in Quebec. Otherwise, <strong>you are not obligated</strong> to collect QST on behalf of the province if you sell taxable goods and services to residents of Quebec."</p>

[patrick_schmidt1]

<p>I'm glad this generated some discussion. In speaking to A DIFFERENT customer service representative they told me that the total costs, including tax and brokerage will be $60, of which only $10 is brokerage. I said ok, though I'm not going to be too surprised if it shows up at my door with a different amount owing. For one thing, I think they calculated based on GST (5%) not the Ontario HST (13%). Which is a substantial difference.<br>

Also, I was informed that Adorama cannot use the Bilsi service for used photographic items, if they do not have a new one in their system to confirm the item's origin. Though my Noblex was manufactured in Germany, they cannot guarantee that the rest of the parts originate there. Frankly, I do not understand how origin is determined if there is more than one. By weight? :P</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>I found this in a Canadian Border Services document (Memorandum D17-1-22)</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"12. The decision as to whether or not the HST or PST will be collected on casual goods is based on whether the goods are in fact casual, in which case they must be properly reported and accounted for as such. Such goods may not be accounted for as commercial goods. For example, where a foreign company sells goods and arranges with a Canadian customs broker or courier to obtain release and account for the duties and taxes on the goods on behalf of the Canadian resident purchasers, if the goods are not for sale or for any commercial, industrial, occupational, institutional or other like use by the purchasers, then the HST or PST must be collected on these goods as required."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The same application of HST or of the GST + PST seems to apply to mailed as well as to the above example for the transfer by courriers. If you don't have to pay the PST component, you had a lucky decision. The provinces and the Border Services presently have an agreement for the latter to collect taxes on their behalf.</p>

<p>I imported a car a few years ago from a near to the border New York State dealership and the provincial PST was only applied later by the car licencing bureau in my province, but that is a special case of cross border transfers. </p>

<p>I am also not so sure how they would assess foreign parts versus local parts in your Noblex. Perhaps a percentage if that is recorded somewhere? My imported car was assembled in the USA, using local parts but also with something less than 50% Japanese produced motor and drive train elements. The higher percentage of USA parts and assembly exempted it from a 6% surcharge made on vehicles from non-North American provenance.</p>

[henryp]

<blockquote>

<p>There have been times, for example, when New Jersey has gained access to NY state sales records and sent a bill for tax due to NJ purchasers who bought by mail order from New York (the big camera stores in NYC) and didn't pay any sales tax at the time of purchase.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Happened to me in fact. I live in NY but for a time worked for a studio in Edison, NJ. I bought stuff from B&H for the studio using my personal credit card and had it shipped to the NJ studio as much for convenience as for any tax implication. I then left the studio and began working for B&H. Soon thereafter I received a bill from NY for use tax. Thinking the timing was related to my new employment I became a bit irked but was assured it was coincidence. I was able to get the penalty waived but remained liable for the tax and interest.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>