Fuji fuilm X-pro1. Why are owners selling them within 6 months of release?

[perry_cas]

<p>I have read numerous reviews and blogs most of which have been very good. It appears to me that this camera would suit me quite well. I am, however, at least curious to see that so many people seemed to go out and make an initial purchase of what was a up to about $4K with lenses etc and now seem to be divesting themselves of this gear within 6 months. And given the price drops its a radical step. So i am at the very least ... curious. Is it the handling? The colour-space ? The unusual focus? The rinky-dink silkypix and the poor ACR plug-in? Apart from my strong interest in the camera I am really interested about this phenomenon. So maybe anyone here who has rid themselves of this camera might giver me some insight into its shortcomings.<br>

Perry </p>

[leslie_cheung]

<p>Probably the same usual reasons. There are many second hand NEX 7, OMD, and NX as well. I doubt ex-owners will give you more insight than what's been said in reviews. </p>

[laur1]

<p>Why not ask those sellers after you see that they concluded their sale? Please share whatever you find.</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>Like you, this camera interests me. I cannot comment as an owner, but for what it's worth here are some observations from the French review "Réponses Photo" (Dec.2012) which is often quite insightful. On the plus side they like the sensor and the Fuji signal processor (rivalling up to ISO 3200 the best DSLRs with APS-C size sensors), the elegance and lightness of the body in actual use and the hybrid viewer (which is clear as an OVF and offers Leica-like vision outside the frame and the EVF which is precise with close-ups, in obscurity and allowing precise exposure control and optimum use of long lenses). Negative comments include the presence of too many buttons and control wheels and settings that can sometimes easily and unexplainably change themselves, the sometimes spuriuous behaviour of the autofocus which sometimes allows or causes firing before achievement of full focus, the not very practical manual focus in practical use and the problem overexposure when using multizone auto exposure (it can nonetheless be dealt with easily by applying a permanent -1 correction). These comments come from a number of months of testing, which is somewhat more reassuring than those obtained after only a short trial.</p>

<p>These apparent faults are not only common to the Fuji, and may or may not be important to you. According to the review, with the recent upgrades to the firmware by Fuji, the quality of the unique Fuji sensor and processor can allow good resolution in print formats up to 32 x 48 inches, comparable with the best APS-C DSLRs. Sounds a bit too impressive, but that's what they say.</p>

[john tonai]

<p>For some of them, the magic bullet didn't work-their photos aren't any better than before</p>

[ariel_s1]

<p>Everyone has their own reasons. Perhaps it was an impulse buy, and the return period has passed. Maybe they need the money, which is why some of my gear that I otherwise would enjoy keeping is on the chopping block. They might have thought they wanted a small camera setup, but enjoy using one of their other systems, which is why I still have my Nikon DSLR system and haven't completely gone to micro 4/3. They might just want the X-E1, which theoretically would be a free upgrade if they get their asking price for their current body. Maybe they, like you, read reviews, but as John says, after experiencing the grass on the other side, realize that it wasn't any greener (the most important part of the camera is still the 9 inches behind the viewfinder, and if you're making poor composition or technical decisions, your photos won't be any better).</p>

<p>It's true with every camera. If I go check my local classifieds, or even ebay or my favorite online used camera site right now, I see cameras that were released after that Fuji, such as the Nikon D600 and D800 and the Canon 5D Mk III, with listings for sale as well. Those are also all great cameras that anyone would be lucky to own, so I wouldn't read too much into some people's choices to divest themselves of their gear. Do what works for you, and others be damned. If the X-Pro 1 has features that are worthwhile to you over the newer, cheaper X-E1, by all means go for it.</p>

[perry_cas]

<p>Hey thanks for your comments, You may be right Leslie, but i already had done what Laurentiu, suggests but have yet to get any informed replies. As soon as i do start to hear anything interesting i will surely share.<br>

thanks Arthur, interesting and I didnt mean to limit any discussion of the camera just to owners. I think at this point that i will buy one of these but i am doing my research first, as THIS time i want to get it right.<br>

Arthur i just had a quick look and found that this mag is available as an ipad ap and seems to be in English so will pull out my ipad and scout it. there are some things there that you mention that i hadnt actually heard before.<br>

But off hand I wonder if they had the all firmware upgrades on board for their tests.<br>

As for the buttons and wheels, I dont handle a lot of cameras, but the controls on my 5d were the nicest i have used. Linguistics uses the term 'parsimonious' to describe a process that is both elegant, clear, effective and frugal And in that sense the 5d I thought at least was 'parsimonious' in a positive sense.<br>

Compared to my Panny G3 which to its credit takes great photos but the menus! it does haver 2 Fn buttons which are useful, but otherwise you have to delve into the menus THEY DRIVE ME NUTS! and i have been repeatedly defeated by the manual. I have been looking at the xpro manual and it at least makes sense to me, but i am unable to comment on the buttons etc at the moment. Gee i hope it's not too bad.<br>

Gosh i wish i had some magic bullets. But even if there were any, at the prices that people bought this kit I would just not be in the running. I noticed (Ebay) this morning that i can buy a new body from HK with a warranty for $1069AUD. Where does that leave the second hand price? $800? Must be a lot of pissed off owners who paid a lot more than that. A Japanese guy suggested to me that the aftermath of the Tsunami was in part responsible, as their domestic market for toys like this has not been doing so well </p>

<p> </p>

[steve_solomon2]

<p>Hi Perry.<br>

I too, was quite interested in either the X-Pro1 or the X-E1, until I read several accounts of edge artifacts even at base ISO, which limits very fine detail. I did have the chance to handle both the X-Pro1 and the X-E1, and frankly, found the X-Pro1 to be rather bulky and "boxy" compared even to my Pentax K-5. I am seeking a smaller, lighter "travel" system, and actually thought the X-E1 body was fantastic in this regard. Plus, the Fuji lenses are outstanding in terms of build, sharpness, and handling. But, the artifact issue has kept me away. Instead, I am now researching the Olympus OM-D system, which I find ergonomically superior as well as lens selection and weather-sealing. The Olympus primes are said to be superb as well. </p>

[peter_gilbert4]

<p>I sold my D700 outfit and purchased the XPro-1 plus 35mm and the 18-55mm zoom, about 2 months ago. I have not regretted the move. Yes, the Fuji is a different beast, but the image quality is excellent, thanks in part to the lack of the AA filter. The one issue that is most often mentioned, is RAW processing issues, especially with the Adobe products (ACR and LR). The Fuji X-Trans sensor has a color filter array that is not the usual Bayer pattern, and RAW developers are having problems dealing with this. You can research this on the Internet if you care to. The software that Fuji supplies with the camera, Silkypix, is not too easy to learn for Westerners (It's a Japanese software product) but it does do better than LR or ACR. However, there is hope that Capture One Pro 7.0.2 Beta, and AccuRaw Beta, will both provide satisfactory RAW development results in the very near future. (I have been beta testing C1Pro and can say I am excited about this). In the meantime, the OOC JPG files are fantastic and can easily be printed 16x20 with careful exposure and framing.<br>

A friend of mine purchased the XE-1 with the zoom, and recently made a trip to the California-Nevada area. His Canon 5D2 stayed in the trunk of his car. The Fuji's size and great image quality count for a lot when you are getting older.<br>

As for the XPro-1, there are a few errors and omissions that tend to turn some folks off. There is no adjustable diopter in the viewfinder (the XE-1 does have an adjustment), so you may need to purchase a screw in 19mm diameter diopter to replace the "zero" standard one. As previously mentioned, the AF focus area is "different" to what DSLR people may be used to. You need to make sure the AF spot covers the area on which you want to focus, and the focus sensor seems to be more sensitive to vertical lines/texture (when the camera is in landscape orientation). You can adjust the size of the AF area (with the EVF) which helps improve capturing focus. The AF speed of the initial 3 lenses (18, 35 and 60 primes) is a bit sluggish, but the 18-55 zoom has a linear motor and reportedly all forthcoming lenses also will have the linear motors for faster AF<br>

The EVF in the XPro-1 and XE-1 takes some getting used to, if you are only used to large optical viewfinders in DSLR cameras.<br>

The omission of a histogram display in playback mode is curious (I'm trying to be polite here).<br>

Note that the latest firmware updates (lenses as well as bodies) greatly improved the overall feel and performance of the camera, but did not "fix" every user complaint. Be careful when you read reviews that you are not reading complaints that have been largely overcome with the new firmware (any review of the XPr0-1 prior to November 2012 was most likely done with earlier f/w, including DPReview).<br>

Also, AF speed is not as good as a DSLR, being contrast detect in the Fuji. And of course, trying to track moving objects while not impossible, is more difficult that with a pro level DSLR. Interestingly, I just finished reading the press release for the new X100s released today; it has a hybrid sensor (phase detect as well as contrast detect AF) plus some aids for manual focusing, as well as a better image processing engine that Fuji claims will further enhance image quality and reduce noise level (already superior to most every other camera using a Bayer CFA). The X100s also has the hybrid viewfinder (OVF and EVF) like the XPro-1 but the EVF has now been improved to the 2.36MB like in the XE-1 (and Sony NEX-7). We should see all these improvements migrate to an update for the XPro sometime later in 2013 I expect.<br>

Hope all this helps</p>

<p> </p>

[john_tran14]

<p>Why would they sell it after 6 months? It is so simple: After using it 6 months, they decide that they'd rather have the reduced used price money than to keep using it. That obviously means they don't see the setup is the right one anymore.</p>

<p>However, that's them and you don't have to be like them.</p>

 

[alan_bessler1]

<p>I just sold a Nikon D600 with 3 Nikon lenses to buy the Xpro-1 and 3 lenses,small light and easy to carry I'm 64 and have a bad back,there are all sorts of reasons people sell new cameras.With the current firmware almost all of the early proplems have been fixed,it's awhole new beast now and it brings me back to 60's and my first camera an Olympus 35RC.......</p>

[harveysteeves]

<p>I am considering selling my outfit. Two main reasons. No decent RAW converter but the JPEGs are stunning. While portable, not as portable or as versatile as an OMD. But then again, the OMD belongs to a older system supported by two manufacturers.<br>

I considered the XPro to give me better images than any APS camera I had seen and also outdo some FX-type cameras. I have other stuff I can clean out first and am going to hang on to it a little longer as I want the 23mm lens and I have yet to do the firmware upgrades.</p>

[alan_bessler1]

<p>Harvey you realy need to do the firmware update,it really make a big difference.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p><em>"I am, however, at least curious to see that so many people seemed to go out and make an initial purchase of what was a up to about $4K with lenses etc and now seem to be divesting themselves of this gear within 6 months."</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

<em><br /></em>Where's the source for this sweeping statement? I know lots of people who love their X Pro-1 kits. See the point? In my case it's three friends. And in yours? Maybe you can direct us to the "International Data Base of Disgruntled Fuji X Pro- Owners Who Sold Their Cameras" to back up your "observation."</p>

[zack_zoll]

<p>It's basically the first camera of a new design. There are bound to be people that buy it, and then find out that 'new' isn't necessarily 'better.' And there are just as many people that would probably love the camera, but are stuck on the fact that existing software doesn't fully support this funky new design nearly as well as it could.</p>

<p>And then there's the standard reasons.</p>

<p>Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to be among the first on any technology bandwagon, unless your job requires it or you've got plenty of money to spare.</p>

[gsbhasin]

<p>I don't know about the X-Pro1.</p>

<p>I do have the X-E1 with the 18-55 lens.<br>

I haven't yet tried the Silkypix software because I just work with the JPEGs and they are fine (much better OOC than the D7000). For me the reason to choose X-E1 there was no <strong>affordable</strong> high quality zoom in m43.<br>

Reading on a lot of reviews the OM-D is very likely the better camera overall, what with the IBIS and weather sealing. But getting a good 12-35 (Panasonic ) would have landed me north of 2 grand USD. And m43 primes (though excellent) aren't a lot cheaper. So as a second camera the X-E1 with the 18-55 gets the most bang for the money IMHO. (I had considered the NEX6/7 but no <strong>affordable</strong> lenses and I don't see the value of buying MF lenses with adapters to use on it. Adapters are great for people who have legacy lenses)<br>

I also own the D7000 with a few primes and the the 18-55 lens is as good if not better (Of course the zoom isn't F1.8)<br>

<strong>Whats to like</strong></p>

<ul>

<li>Very lightweight kit (can carry it all day)</li>

<li>Great OOC JPEGs</li>

</ul>

<p><strong>Whats not to like</strong></p>

<ul>

<li>AF is sluggish (esp. comparing to a D7000)</li>

<li>Overall response is slower than Nikon (The D7000 makes you feel integral - it just goes)</li>

<li>EVF (still not used to it) not as good</li>

</ul>

<p>Bottom-line I am keeping it. It comes handy to keep close all the time and travel. The D7000 is good for when I need to capture my kid's memories (where X-E1 is a fail due to AF)<br>

Here is a shot I took yesterday (in Velvia mode) and touched with PS Elements.<br>

http://www.photo.net/photo/16753172</p>

 

[perry_cas]

<p>Dear C Watson. I guess it is a sweeping statement, it's purely an observation based on looking at the sales on Ebay for a few weeks. There seemed to be what i thought a lot of cameras for sale of a model that was only 6 months old. I think i explained my concerns which were really that so many people seemed to have so much money to spend on an item and its attendant lenses and then feel that they didnt want them at something of a big price drop. Perhaps i am just out of touch, perhaps i should have looked at a variety of other new models which i did not but i apologise if this offended you.<br>

What i wanted to do was to put an idea up in the hope of getting useful feedback on this camera that i am seriously interested, and have nothing to go on but reviews. I have done this before. The epson 3200 scanner comes to mind. A dog that got good reviews. The information that other memebers have contributed here has been considered and informative and i really appreciate their truly constructive and informed comments </p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>My observation compiled only by "exhaustive" internet research, is that there are no more GAS-addicted folk than mirrorless users. Something to do with being "pioneers", and the thrill of chucking out the old (DSLRs). DSLR GAS addictees are always buying lenses, but not new systems. Mirrorless folk seem to change a system twice or more (even more if we include those who get the fixed lens/P&S mirrorless obsession). This is a totally unscientific observation, of course, but it is something I think I have noticed.</p>

[leslie_cheung]

<blockquote>

<p>Mirrorless folk seem to change a system twice or more (even more if we include those who get the fixed lens/P&S mirrorless obsession)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>True, Robin but there are reasons for that, mainly the growing and advancing technologies within. What's new in the dslr realm, besides more MP and slightly better (less) high ISO noise?</p>

<p> </p>

[aplumpton]

<p>Perry,</p>

<p>there is another feature that shows Fuji's innovative capacity, namely the multiple exposure possibility on the X Pro that allows laying another image over the first one, sort of like one could do with some film cameras, and which I sometimes did by simply (the operative word!) absent mindedly double exposing whole rolls, with some fun results.</p>

<p>I like the originality that lives at Fuji. They play their own tune on some intriguing instruments.</p>

[perry_cas]

<p>Geez Arthur I did note that feature, are you saying it can be done absent-mindedly with the fuji? I havent read that part in the manual yet but i sort of assumed it would have some failsafes. Up until a couple of years ago I had a Crown Graphic. One needed to be 'organised' not to lose 2 shots. I do recall getting very excited at the Bromo Tenger volcano park in Java when a huge plume came up and pulling the holder out of the camera and then not remembering which was which. I got lucky, but it was pure luck.<br>

Look I have another thought and this is about the software that a few have mentioned. NOw the G3 i have has Silkypix, I have Ps CS4. The plug in for ACR they made was for CS5, so what i have been doing was to convert RAW to Tiff with Silky pix and then process it in PS. I cant help though but wonder how much information i may be losing. I was thinking that I could continue with this when i bought an Xpro until they get the ACR sorted properly. Or am i being foolishly naive, innocent of the higher processes? </p>

[aplumpton]

<p>Perry, ....absent-mindedly with a film camera, not the Fuji digital.</p>

[harveysteeves]

<p>I shoot RAW plus Jpegs; the RAW files for when somebody figures out a good converter (I've tried both Silkypix and ACR) and the Jpegs for now ...</p>

[john_reynolds10]

<p>XPro1 replacement is coming out soon.</p>

[perry_cas]

<p>thanks all for the good information. I think in terms of my original question i have come to understand that some folks out there have a philosophy behind spend money on gear that isn't mine and i just was not aware of. </p>