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A forum topic about the No Word forum

ann_overland

By ann_overland
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ann_overland

ann_overland

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<p>Hi, would it be okey for me to post a topic about the No Words forum. I think it would be nice to have a place where we can discuss the photos uploaded to the No Words forum, both regarding the content of the photos and the techniques used. Please let me know. Thanks.<br>

<br /> Ann</p>

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ann_overland

ann_overland

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<p>I was thinking of the "casual" forum. But I think that one topic for the NW forum might be enough. And if/when the thread gets too long, we could start a new one. The idea was to give positive feedback on photos already posted. Like: "I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your picture of ________, Pnina" Or: I really like your lightbulb photo, Gordon, because ___________. And questions about photo techniques used in a given photo. There must be a common understanding that the thread is not going to be about photo critique, or about what one "should" or "should not" post in the NW forum. By that I mean that the discussion should be positive and about the photos, and not about how to use the NW forum. Do you think that would be possible? </p>
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WJT

WJT

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<p>With all respect to Ann and her suggestion, <em>No Words</em> is the essence of the No Words Forum. The very concept of the NWF, a concept that has been in place for many years and is summarized as "to hold a discussion without needing words", would be reduced to a triviality if discussions were allowed, even if they were held in another forum.</p>

<p>There are plenty of other fora on this site where verbal (written) discussions are encouraged, but not in the NWF. I ask, what is the problem with posting one's images in those fora? </p>

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lex_jenkins

lex_jenkins

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<p>If the photo displayed on the NW Forum is hosted on the member's portfolio, critiques or comments can be posted there as we would for any photo on our portfolios.</p>

<p>If the photo is directly uploaded and not hosted on our portfolios, a private message or email can be sent. I've exchanged critiques, comments and questions that way with other members. This has been particularly helpful when discussing a body of work, photo essay or documentary project rather than unrelated individual photos.</p>

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ann_overland

ann_overland

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<p>I suggest that we try this out for a while to see what happens. If it has a negative effect on the No Words forum (which we are not going to change in any way), we can stop having a topic about it in the Casual forum. This is suppose to be a positive addition to the No Words forum. Something in the line of the comments we make in the Nikon Wednesday threads. It seems like the comments there have managed to stay positive for many years. And few people, if any, have a problem with those comments.<br>

<br /> There is a good chance that this will be a positive addition to the No Words forum, so why not try it out for a while? Those who are not interested don't have to read the thread. Remember it will be in a totally different forum.</p>

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lex_jenkins

lex_jenkins

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<blockquote>

<p>"There must be a common understanding that the thread is not going to be about photo critique, or about what one "should" or "should not" post in the NW forum. By that I mean that the discussion should be positive and about the photos"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>A worthy goal, but unlikely to work out as smoothly as you might anticipate.</p>

<p>An anecdote from days of yore, relevant to this topic...</p>

<p>When we adopted the weekly Nikon Wednesday photo sharing thread concept two or three years ago it was with the more flexible "Words or No Words" model. It quickly led to folks not merely praising each others' photos, but thanking each other for praising each others' photos and thanking each other for thanking each other for praising each others' photos.</p>

<p>The natural consequence of this mutual admiration led some participants to consider these threads fair game for actual photo critiques, including negative critiques. Not an unreasonable conclusion, since photo.net is intended to be a somewhat serious photography site. This led to some hurt feelings and quite a bit of drama. It was a huge burden for moderators as well and took several months before the weekly photo sharing threads settled into a more amicable groove.</p>

<p>The No Words Forum concept is by its very nature a hermetic or insular conversation, sans words. Critiquing such a thread outside of the micro-zeitgeist context of the NW Forum risks being interpreted as gossiping about a conversation you participated in or overheard in an entirely different milieu - a party or over dinner. Would you feel comfortable if others shared on Facebook, G+ or another social media outlet things you said at that party or dinner? If so, would you be equally comfortable if they criticized what you'd said, rather than merely praising or complimenting your wit and brilliance?</p>

<p>Your suggestion has merits. Just be aware of the potential for complications.</p>

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JDMvW

JDMvW

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<p>If you look at the camera-specific picture threads you can see what kind of commentary results.<br>

Some comments are useful and insightful. Others are just presumptuous. Everybody feels their comments are in the first category. I'm with Lex on this one.</p>

<p>I think that the "no words" policy may sometimes be enforced a little zealously on the No Words forum, but that it's all to the good, on the whole. <br>

How would a separate set of comments work without the pictures being repeated?</p>

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MichaelChang

MichaelChang

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<p>Part of the attraction for many participants in the No Words Forum is the relative anonymity and the freedom from having to engage in discussions.</p>

<p>If a question is posed, the burden of having to engage in a discuss of ones upload might discourage participation. I also don't see a point in opening a discussion on ones own upload when critique forums exist for that purpose. </p>

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WJT

WJT

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<p>Mr. Chang nails it...there is no point. There are other fora specifically geared for commenting, critiquing, and showing-off. In my view the popularity of the NWF and the rapid visibility one's images can attain there is what has triggered this impulse to start commenting on the images in NWF.</p>

<p>And I reiterate, this proposal reduces the meaning and intent of communicating one's thoughts via a non-verbal media. As moderator of NWF my goal is to preserve the "discussions" in that forum without words, even to the point of seeming to be overzealous at times.</p>

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ann_overland

ann_overland

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<p>The point is that those who want to engage in comments about the photos in the No Words forum can do that. Together. I would like that. Those who are not interested can just ignore the new thread. Since we are not going to post anything in the No Words forum, I can't see any harm done to this forum.<br /> <br /> We can't know if this will be a positive addition to the No Words forum until we have tried it out for a while. And if it for some reason doesn't work out, I can't imagine that the No Words forum would suffer from any permanent damage from it.<br /> <br /> I really like to try this out. I hope a few more members will, too.</p>
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Norma Desmond

Norma Desmond

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<p>It's an interesting suggesting and I appreciate the motivation behind it, but I prefer No Words to stay as is. There are plenty of photos to discuss on PN, from the TRP to the vast number of photos in the critique forum. In the critique forum, people have <em>requested comments</em> and they rarely get them. The No Words seems to me specifically about NOT commenting, so I think the proposed thread would defeat the No Words purpose. Occasionally, I have received private messages about the photos I've posted there and I've done likewise about others' photos on occasion. </p>

<p>I have found that the best way to "comment" on someone else's photo in a No Words thread is to post a photo of my own as a response to something above it or to the photo that initiates the thread. I think others do this as well, and it becomes a kind of pictorial dialogue, something special that needs no verbal commenting.</p>

We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!
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michaellinder

michaellinder

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<p>Once a photograph is posted for critique, we already have the means to comment, to read others' comments, and to have dialogue about them. To me, a "NW Discussion Forum" would be duplicative. Besides, the NW Forum has a mystique about it in that posting an image in response to the OP enables one to respond to the OP based entirely on his/her "gut feeling."</p>
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ann_overland

ann_overland

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<p>It is suggested by some gentlemen here that the No Words forum will be damaged in some way by my suggestion. How exactly can the No Words forum be damaged by a friendly thread about the photos in another forum? I must lack the imagination to understand that.<br>

<br /> If damage is done, I can understand the resistance. And since I am one of the freequent users of the No Words forum I would also like to keep it the way it is today. That goal is mutual, I believe.<br>

<br /> But, if no damage is done, then it should be perfectly okey to have this new thread. We are speaking about one friendly thread in a different forum...come on you guys!</p>

 

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Norma Desmond

Norma Desmond

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<p>Ann, you posted an honest question here and got genuine answers to your questions. We have given you our opinions. I don't think you lack the imagination to understand our responses. All you need to do is listen and agree or disagree. Nothing said here, by you or anyone else, has been in any way difficult to understand. The matter is simple. You have an opinion and many of us disagree. It's not rocket science. I thought my answer was pretty clear. By starting a verbal discussion about the No Words photos, we would undermine the discipline and adventure of keeping these particular discussions visual only and non-verbal by intention. There are countless avenues on this site dedicated to discussions of photos. There is only one avenue for No Words. Why not discuss where discussion happens, and not verbalize about the ONE forum dedicated to non-verbalization?</p>

<p>Now, of course, you will agree or disagree with the points I've made. But really? You don't understand them?</p>

We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!
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