Some Good News for Kodak's Film Business

[larrydressler]

<p>I have not seen a movie at a theater since my son and I went to Watchmen I still love that movie....</p>

 

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>So far the management of Fotokemika made a new decision to stop <em>all</em> production. The old coating plant is too expensive to re-generate and the airco system seems to be overloaded and need an expensive repair too.<br /><br />If they do not find an investor in a short time Efke will be history. So this is not good news at all! <br /><br />It seems to be that they can not produce cost effectivly these films and photo papers anymore. Efke films are containing the largest amount of Silver.<br>

If Fotokemika is going out of business the following products are involved:<br /><br />Emaks and MG Varycon Efke photo papers<br />The same line for Adox papers<br /><br />Efke 25-50-100 films in all formats<br />Efke IR820/aura<br /><br />Same line Adox films:<br />Adox CHS 25-50-100 and IR.<br /><br />Rollei Pan 25 (in fact already discontinued)<br /><br />All Ortho 25 films on the actual market: Rollei ortho 25 / Adox ortho 25<br />Rollei ATO<br />Rollei retro 100 TONAL (based on a modified Efke 100 emulsion)<br /><br />In our Fotohuis program involved:<br /><em>Efke 25 and 100 135-36 / 120 roll film, IR820 135-36 / 120 roll film, Retro 100 Tonal 135-36 / 120 roll film / 4x5" sheet film, Ortho 25 135-36 / 120 roll film and retro 80S in 127 roll film.</em><br /><br />In fact all slow going products to be honest.........<br>

At this moment the situation is not completely clear what is going to happen. If existing stock is going out or not or if they will complete packing and slitting orders for Rollei-Maco for the 127 Rollei Retro 80S roll film for example.<br>

It must be clear for everybody that we will loose irriplaceble films on the niche market (IR, Orthopan, Ortho) by pulling out the plug for this factory in Croatia.</p>

 

[larrydressler]

<p>Thank you Robert for coming to my aid here with the full answer. Do you think You could get some one from Fotokemika to come and tell more?</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<blockquote>

<p>Do you think You could get some one from Fotokemika to come and tell more?</p>

</blockquote>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>From the last two days it was impossible to get somebody from Fotokemika on the phone.</p>

<p>Even the general manager <i>Josip Cuk </i>was not able to reach. Of course some people are considering a rescue program but apart from the start up money which is not so big the basic thing is that Fotokemika can not make enough profit on their films. So the situation is much more complicated.</p>

<p>Let say it in a simple talk: Kodak had to go first to make the film prices up for maybe 40%-50% for a survival of this small specialized factory.</p>

[francisco_salaquanda]

<p>Film will still be available. My friend does his own E6 processing at home. Apart from being very temperature sensitive, if anything the process is easier to do than B&W.<br>

Plustech have a 4800dpi slide film scanner for $300. I've seen the results. Certainly fine for up to A3 printing. And as others have said, keep buying and someone will see a niche and meet the demand.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>If we have no film to shoot that scanner is not worth a dime. Last company making E6 is cutting most of them out of production. Yes i think we will always have some type of B&W 35mm film but MF and LF are getting harder and harder to get... I never thought I would see the day where FOMA was King. I Hope I don't see it but I see some things turning bad quickly.</p>

[Robin Smith]

<blockquote>

<p>How does the viewer tolerate this?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The same reason that they put up with film noise in a movie - flicker frequency means you don't necessarily notice it.</p>

[jeff_sudduth]

<blockquote>

<p>Efke 25-50-100 films in all formats<br />Efke IR820/aura<br /><br />Same line Adox films:<br />Adox CHS 25-50-100 and IR.<br /><br />Rollei Pan 25 (in fact already discontinued)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Rollei pan 25, Agfa 25 and Efke 25 are different emulsions. <a href="http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/product_tests/slow_film_001.php">As is obvious from looking at them closely</a>. Does someone know what is really going on or is this just another poster assuming they are all the same emulsion?</p>

[wblynch]

<p>I trust Robert's knowledge about the origination and commonality of those films...</p>

 

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>To clarify this:<br>

Agfa APX 25 was discontinued by Agfa in 2001.</p>

<p>Efke 25 is coming from Fotokemika in Croatia. Adox CHS 25 is exactly the same emulsion. The first edition of Rollei PAN 25 was a modified OrWo Filmotec NP15 emulsion. However the collaboration between Maco and Filmotec on the Ortho films was not very succesfull so the next coating for Ortho 25 was done by Efke and when the stock Rollei PAN 25 was finished the Rollei PAN 25 film was identical with Efke 25 like before (2004) Maco used this film under Maco UP25.<br>

Even Rollei Retro 100 <em>TONAL , </em>in fact a modified Efke 100 film, made Orthopan with an Agfa sensitizer is not possible to produce now anymore.<br>

So by the demise of Efke/Fotokemika a lot of special films (also Infra Red) will disappear too. Don't forget that Fotokemika is the only manufacturer of 127 roll film. Also the Retro 80S in 127 format will disappear unless Maco can find in the far east (China) a possible assembly.<br>

Efke 25-100 are old school films, single layer and unique in their characteristics, so we are loosing irriplaceble films now. It's a combination of pressure of the multinational prices, higher energy and high Silver prices which made problems for Efke/Fotokemika. They can not make enough profit on their regular products. Bad luck that Efke films are containing a very high amount of Silver compared to their competitors.<br>

About pricing: Depending on the continent but in Europe Efke B&W films are very cheap and only popular for the real amateur who is doing it's own development.</p>

 

[jeff_sudduth]

<blockquote>

<p>I trust Robert's knowledge about the origination and commonality of those films...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So the question remains if Rollie PAN 25=Efke 25 what is going on <a href="http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/product_tests/slow_film_001.php">HERE</a>?</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>It's an old test from about 2006.</p>

<p>From the <strong>Rollei-Maco</strong> webshop:<br /><em><a href="http://www.macodirect.de/rollei-p-412.html"><strong>Rollei Pan 25 120</strong></a></em><br /><em>Model: RF2001X </em><br /><em>Diese Version der Rollei Pan 25 Filme ist 1:1 baugleich mit den Efke Pan 25 Filmen.</em></p>

<p>Baugleich = identical<br />So even the <strong>manufacturer</strong> is giving the same information about this question.</p>

<p> </p>

[joseph_wisniewski]

<p>And coming back to the theme...</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Some Good News for Kodak's Film Business</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Basically, it's done. The article Louis cited mentioned two important things.</p>

<ul>

<li>The new Kodak contracts allow for the discontinuing of film on very short notice.</li>

<li>The movie industry film sales dropped 25-30% per year for the last 3 years, and that trend is going to continue until 2016, where movie film becomes commercially extinct.</li>

</ul>

<p>Which brings us to this...<br /> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57499679-92/kodak-to-sell-its-film-business/<br /> All film and paper operations, aside from movie, are being split off and sold.</p>

<p>And now you know why Kodak made a big thing about splitting their film operation into two divisions last year, despite the fact that they share both manufacturing and R&D. I'm trying to picture who would buy them. There just aren't business cases. Kodak had been content to let that business die: they had R&D reinvestment cut back to 1.5%, when their competitors, film or digital, were running nearer the 6% average for viable industries. They even rearranged their divisions so that they didn't have to report that alarmingly low number. </p>

<p> </p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I am planning a funeral.<br>

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19366113</p>

[donbright]

<p>What are they doing over there at Kodak? What has really changed in 6 months that will affect the Professional film still Photographer? I don't see definitive news that Professional film production has stopped, or will stop.</p>

[wblynch]

<p>If we have any hope at all for the future of these products, it lies in a competent buyer.</p>

<p>It's been obvious for years that Kodak management has no interest in the coated products and have done everything they can to destroy the line. </p>

<p>Perez is from the Meg Whitman school of management. Strip all you can and suck the blood dry then slither away to a luxurious retreat with the wealth that took 100 years of others' sweat and intelligence to build.</p>

<p>So let's see if anyone steps up.</p>

 

[larrydressler]

<p>It would be nice if someone could throw the EFKE formulas into this deal too.</p>

[donbright]

<p>Bill, Larry, Yours are the kind of sounds that gives me hope, and that we may be beneficiaries of the present volatility. Could? Should there be a sharing of formula's to keep a a world of discriminating Photographers content and excited about the tool known as film, then we live in a beautiful world indeed.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Don Believe it or not if someone calls me a flilmtard I smile because I know it is true. I could go digital but there is no joy in that for me. I love to start with a roll load it shoot it and then keep it in my hands by processing it myself to what ever my final output is.<br>

<br /> I am not too old to change but I am too young to not care.</p>

[donbright]

<p>Larry, I appreciate that, I'm not at a place where age is determining my sense of taste in the finished product, like many. At the end of the roll, its the appearance of the image that holds my position. Yes my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, but we have tools for that too. It's the fear of losing, or missing the essence that film presents. I'm a skeptic when it comes to crowds.<br>

<em>I am not too old to change but I am too young to not care....</em><br>

That's good stuff! I like that.<em><br /></em><em><br /></em></p>

[dangoldman]

<p>does it matter, for kodak, what the film is shot on? its the distribution that, i assume, they made their money and volume. </p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Can I ignore that? Want to rephrase that in proper English Danny?</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

Thanks for the Efke update. I

guess I need to stock up on Efke

50 and 100. They have a

gorgeous look to them.

[joseph_wisniewski]

<blockquote>

<p>does it matter, for kodak, what the film is shot on? its the distribution that, i assume, they made their money and volume.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, it matters. Shooting is all that will be left of the movie film marker in 2016. The forecast is for 100% worldwide distribution by then. The loss in distribution is the larger part of the 30% per year decline in the movie film business.</p>