Are you finding what you need ?

[orourke]

<p>Ever get that question? It's a slightly more refined version of "Can I help you".</p>

<p>I recently was reading a thread here on photo.net that dealt, primarily with, ethical business practices of a (some) camera shop(s). This isn't about ethics, I don't think.</p>

<p>A little background. Over the course of my life I've held a couple of traditional sales jobs. Two of note were a 5 year stint with a regional 'big box' type chain and a year or so gig with a National camera store chain while attending college. The big box experience, for me, was different than what you may assume. For example, for two weeks prior to setting foot on their sales floor we were brought to the company's training facility, put up in a hotel and fed for the duration. We were immersed in learning techniques with which to interact with customers. From the approach, the greeting, warmup, qualification, product presentation, feature/benefit, trial close, overcoming objections, close and follow up. It was an eye opening experience to see how much I had been manipulated into making buying decisions in the past without my knowledge.</p>

<p>After the intial sales training we were introduced to a series of factory reps that demonstrated their products and engaged in their own, customer focused, feature/benefit presentations , as well as what we needed to know that set their product apart from the competition. In that five years, that cycle of training never stopped. We had daily sales meetings and at least one product knowledge meeting with a factory rep per week.</p>

<p>In short, we were prepared to answer any customer questions intelligently, courteously, and professionaly in order to make that customer's buying experience with us one that they would want to repeat. We were proud, and we were professional.</p>

<p>I'm having a hell of a time finding that anymore.</p>

<p>I've been meddling around with cameras, on and off, most of my life, I'm in my mid 50's now. Started with a Brownie, an Instamatic, a Polaroid, and a variety of older fold out bellows type cheapies before I really thought I found God in the seventies when I purchased a brand new Nikkormat Ft2. Over the years I've had a variety of 35mm Nikons, a Mamiya medium format, and some, eh, point and shoot digitals. I've been coming here to this site over the past year, reading, listening, and learning, because I am once again starting one of those "on" cycles that I know will see me purchasing a new Dslr and I like making an informed decision on my purchase.</p>

<p>The internet and Barnes and Noble only go so far. So out into the real 'hold it in your hands' world I go to put one or two Dslr's through the motions and ask silly questions like "what does this do". Well for starters, try to find a camera store. Good luck unless you have unlimited frequent flyer miles. Sadly, they all seem to be gone, or most of them at least. So it's off to a "but you have to hurry because the sale will be over" store. Ok, there's the camera section, ah.... the display, oh look, there's the Nikon 7000 I've been reading so much about! Wow, looks nice, let me pick it up and turn it on. Hmmm, won't turn on. Maybe someone here can show me what I'm doing wrong. Nope, don't see anyone, maybe over in the TV department, ah yes, there's a salesman. Hi, can you show me a few things on this Nikon over here? Um,.... is it a camera? Yes. Oh, ok let me get you someone. "Customer service in camera's, customer service in cameras".</p>

<p>Hi, are you finding what you need?<br />Well, I'm trying to figure out why this camera won't turn on.<br />Oh, ok, let me check that out for you.<br />Great!<br />Huh, it doesn't seem like it has any power.<br />Really? So 'it's not me? What do you think is wrong?<br />Gee, I don't know...huh...hmmm....huh.<br />Is there anyone that might know?<br />Uh no, not really, I'm the only one in camera today.</p>

<p>OK,even though that was a much shortened version of what was a very frustrated dialogue I'll leave that as the end of my little rehash. That took place at least 3 months ago, maybe 4. In that period of time I have gone back in there 5, maybe 6 times and I have yet to see power to that camera or found anyone that can tell me anything beyond what price the thing is selling for. Forget trying to even hold a D700 or any FX model for comparison!</p>

<p>Are you finding what you need? I'm not. What a sad state of affairs the retail camera business has become.</p>

<p>End of rant.</p>

<p> </p>

[MichaelChang]

<blockquote>

<p><em>"Forget trying to even hold a D700 or any FX model for comparison!"</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>The trend these days with most purchase decisions are - </p>

 

<ol>

<li>Do your research to learn as much as possible about what you want to buy; then</li>

<li>Go to the nearest physical store for a hands-on touch and feel; then, if you like it</li>

<li>Find the cheapest price on-line from the most reputable vendor; then</li>

<li>Place your order. </li>

</ol>

<p>Every physical store owner knows this, and there's really no answer to the dilemma unless the owners' pockets are deep enough to go old school - invest in trained employees, stock everything, develop a local reputation, and also sell on-line in the hopes that margins are sufficient to make a profit. </p>

<p>To add insult to injury, there's little incentive to buy at your local camera store unless there is a tangible benefit to the consumer - there often isn't because products are reliable and warranty claims will be similar, if not the same if bought on-line. </p>

<p>For many shoppers, it's also a turn-off to experience the pressure of high margin add-ons by salesmen - extended warranty, accessories, to pad the sale. </p>

[MathewDH]

<p>Bill,</p>

<p>About the only way people can get information and reviews of the cameras is on the web. For my last camera body purchase I read everything but waited until the pros weighed in with photos and their testing before I committed the money. However I bought used lenses on ebay since some were not available new.</p>

<p>When the local camera store shut down here, a year later the woman who did the photo printing started her own printing store. She is doing quite well and I got a lot of current market information that was interesting.</p>

<p>She does not handle cameras because the models change so fast that left over examples cannot be sold. No one wants the older versions even on sale. Digital cameras are disposable like last year's cell phone. Then there is the issue of the fondlers who go and buy the item off the web. Combine that buyer attitude with the severe decline in photo printing and there really is no good business model for the mom and pop operation. The owners of the camera store retired and shut it down. There was no attempt to sell it.</p>

<p>Buying a really good camera can be done by a pilgrimage to a good regional store. They are still around. In Seattle that would be Glazer's. They will not have 127 film in black and white or color, but they have most everything else -- including the working knowledge.</p>

<p>Which reminds me, I need to drive there and get some more Canson paper to print on.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that most cameras, more or less, have the same functions. So buying a good book on the subject and joining a camera club can be a great way to get current information and help. One cannot forget the magazines, and the various web sites like photo.net where good advice can be had for free.</p>

<p>The rambling is over...CHEERS...Mathew</p>

[richardsperry]

Bill,

 

If referring to the thread I posted about a month ago.

 

First, I explicitly refrained from using the word 'ethics'.

 

Second, I have personally done business with that particular sales person since. Although extremely helpful, he was/is

not at all experienced or very knowledgable with cameras or photography. He just didn't know better is what I have

assessed since.

 

Off topic for this thread, but a clarification.

[chris_waller]

<p>It depends very much on the shop but sadly your experience is only too typical. Once upon a time the assistants in photographic shops used to be enthusiasts themselves - that's why they worked there - but these days assistants just tend to be generic 'sales people' who were probably selling shoes or microwave cookers only a few weeks previously.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Some customers may complain (understandibly) about stores cutting it so close on margins and overhead that they can no longer afford weeks of housing, food, and not-selling-things to train people on products and salesmanship, but most people complain only about price. Everyone wants a small local store or to compete on price with a handful of large internet-facing retailers, or they want a large chain with a local presence to have rock-bottom prices while managing to have some one on staff that's spent weeks learning about a particular device that will be obsolete within months of their first encountering it. These are irreconcilable goals.<br /><br />Consumer electronics (including Nikon D7000's) are now commodity items like cell phones. There is an ocean of information about them online, and large retailers who are happy to simply take them back if you've made a bad choice (see Costco for a good example).<br /><br />It would be a maddening time to try to run a camera store, that's for sure. A local multi-store chain in our area seems to be managing to survive, but I think it's mostly because there's a fair amount of affluence in the local suburbs, and thus people who actually have more money than time, want some handholding, and don't care if the camera they want <em>today</em> costs $20 more than it would cost if they had it shipped to them. That $20 is what buys them an interested, informed sales person. <em>Most</em> people, though, would rather have the $20 in their pockets, and let Amazon deliver the camera tomorrow, with no shipping charges.</p>

[tholte]

<h5>We are lucky here in Milwaukee, we still have two good camera stores that have good inventories and knowledgeable sales people. Chicago is only an hour and a half away and they still have a few good stores available if I want to take a train trip to the big city. I still like buying stuff from a real store and will continue to do so if the price isn't more than about 5% over an on-line store. </h5>

[JDMvW]

<p>I was recently in Chicago. Discovered Central Camera -- a store I had seen many ads for in my ancient <em>Modern Photography</em> and <em>Popular Photography</em> magazines.</p>

<p>I think it was fairly obvious that I was mostly interested in the fact that it has survived up to the present day, but the staff were unfailingly courteous and tried their best to meet my needs.</p>

<p>Alas, there weren't many customers, so they had lots of time to deal with me.</p>

<div></div>

[sarah_fox]

<blockquote>

<p>The trend these days with most purchase decisions are -</p>

<ol>

<li>Do your research to learn as much as possible about what you want to buy; then</li>

<li>Go to the nearest physical store for a hands-on touch and feel; then, if you like it</li>

<li>Find the cheapest price on-line from the most reputable vendor; then</li>

<li>Place your order. </li>

</ol></blockquote>

<p>For someone who lives in the sticks, like me, another alternative would be to seek out other photographers. I think there are more camera clubs than "real" camera stores, and camera buffs are more than happy to talk about their cameras -- and can discuss them somewhat intelligently. Find a nearby camera club, and tag along with your film camera to some of their activities. You'll have ample opportunity to see/hold/discuss. :-)</p>

[andrew_west5]

<p>As luck would have it, there's a camera store about an hour away. I can't exactly stop in just to look around, but it's there if I have a good enough reason. Their prices on used equipment are pretty good—typically good enough to justify buying there rather than gambling on buying online, sight unseen. </p>

<p>What annoys me about the big box stores closer to home, is that I know there are knowledgeable people looking for work who would be great for the specialty sales jobs. Having applied to (at least) a few dozen of these positions myself, from cameras and electronics to music/studio equipment, I know that the primary concern is retail experience. Understandable, of course, but I think the issue is that these companies don't really get what makes the shopping experience positive for a consumer.</p>

<p>Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me people want to trust a salesperson as an authority figure. They want to be able to get all of the nagging questions about a potential purchase off their chest and, if they're going to surrender the money they've been scraping together the past few weeks/months/years for whatever it is, they want the salesperson to put their mind at ease and assure them that they're making a good decision. Two things are important there: trust and knowledgeability. A customer needs to trust that these questions will be answered honestly, and they need to believe that the person representing the store and its products actually knows what they're selling—ideally, knows more about what they're selling than the customer.</p>

<p>I've had my share of bad store experiences, more than my share if you count years of listening to my dad (semi-pro musician with access to the Internet) complain about the same thing. Maybe the rise of ecommerce and the informed consumer requires <em>more</em> knowledgeable sales staff, not less. If that's not an option, then I think sales positions are obsolete—another occupation killed off by the evil machines, I guess. </p>

<p>Either way, there is a certain level of familiarity with a product that is necessary if you're going to work somewhere that sells it without making a fool of yourself, losing sales, and irritating customers. Awhile back, I asked someone working in Walmart's photo department a question about filters, she had me explain what they were, then told me she didn't sell them. I could have grabbed one from the shelf and shown her. I found it amusing more anything, but it's not hard to imagine how her lack of knowledge (and familiarity with the inventory) could lead to problems.</p>

<p> </p>