Lens Inflation?

[frederick_muller]

<p>Haven't gone lens shopping for a while ... is it my imagination, or is the general price level of Leica M lenses going up? VC lenses seem to be holding steady ...</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Yes, I think you are right, Frederick. I sold a couple of lenses about a year ago. Now I need one of them again, and to re-purchase is about double what I sold mine for. Ouch. But with most markets, prices seem to go up and down. Just when I worry that I have to purchase a piece of equipment before it goes up too far, it comes back down.</p>

[SCL]

<p>A lot of people are looknig for Leica lenses, not only to use on their M8 & M9 bodies, but also to use on their Micro 4/3 bodies.</p>

[astral]

<p>I'm sure they are, and that includes Leica R prime lenses like the 50mm f1.4. Many Leica lenses that can be fitted on a digital cameras have increased by around 30% here in the UK in the past 2 years - sometimes more. But there are exceptions - I recently bought a 90mm f4 Rokkor M at 2007 prices from a London dealer, and it seems that some longer focus lenses are less 'inflated'.</p>

<p>Voigtlander lenses have maintained their 'affordability' but, again, there is a slow upward creep with some versions. Either way, the Leica <em>'bargains'</em> of yesteryear ('affordable' Summarons, for example) largely appear to have gone. In reality, I could not now afford the majority of lenses that I bought over three years ago.</p>

 

[JDMvW]

<p>While camera bodies largely continue to get cheaper, there seems to be a general trend upward for lenses in general.</p>

<p>I think <em>some</em> of this results from a realization that MF lenses of many kinds can be used manually to good effect on digital cameras, and especially digital cameras with high quality video</p>

<p>The number of lens adapters to meet that demand offered on eBay has certainly gone up greatly since 5 years ago when I first started buying some. Somebody is adapting older lenses to newer cameras, that's for sure.</p>

 

[geoff_r1]

<p>I've noticed both M and R lenses have gone up a lot. I sold some lenses in April, and got more than I expected to. Now wanting rebuy one of them, they seem to have gone up again substantially! Some prices seem crazy, especially R lenses and most of the chrome M lenses, which where previously quite affordable.</p>

<p>Given the M9 and DSLR adaptors have been around for a while now, I am wondering what has caused such a large spike. I imagine the fact that the US dollar is low has attracted the interest of a lot of overseas buyers, myself included.</p>

[marc_rochkind]

US perspective:

 

B&H is out of stock on all of them save one or two. Even at the higher prices. So prices will keep going up. Also, dollar

is weak and getting weaker.

 

Good for Leica, and good for US exporters and those in the tourist business.

[john_robison3]

<p>The rise in prices are immaterial to me. Even before the recent increses they were far out of my range.</p>

<p>The only reason I can afford a Leica M is because of the CV lenses. That and a fellow hobby photographer in my apartment building who wanted to part with a CV 21mm f4 LTM and a 35mm f2.5 PII. Both lenses were like new and he offered them to me for a very fair price in early 2010. I was able to buy a mint M4-2 a short time later at a camera sale and swap meet. The only Leica lens I have been able to afford since then is a 90 f4 Elmar in LTM. I need a 50 to complete my setup but even the CV 50's are out of my reach so I'm looking at a Jupiter-8, less than a C note from Fedka. I know to some purists that mounting anything but a Leica lens on a Leica makes no sense but I've always wanted an M and if this is the only way I can use one then so be it. So far my total investment is about $1650 even if I buy the Jupiter, not bad for a body and 4 lenses.</p>

<p>The rise in prices is affecting CV lenses too although that may be more because of a weak USD. I sure hope the FSU lenses don't go up too high.</p>

<p>CV<br>

LTM<br>

USD<br>

FSU<br>

good grief, we sure use a lot of acronyms</p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>I regrettably sold all my Leica stuff off in 2009. The M prices have since soared (typical!). I could never afford to buy them back - thank god for VC is all I can say as that will be what I would get if I ever get back into Leica M.</p>

[MTC Photography]

<p>I still keep all my Leica R lenses to used on my Canon 5DMark 2, so that I don't have to<br />buy any Canon EF lenses for now. I do lost the autofocus capability of 5d</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>John, the Jupiter-8 is a good lens, but you will almost certainly find that it does not focus correctly on a Leica body at near distance and open aperture. There are a few people who can set that right, though.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>There is discussion on-line of the problem of Soviet 39mm screw mount lenses on real Leicas. It is sometimes claimed that the lens to film plane register is to Contax standard rather than Leitz.<br /> You can Google for a discussion of that.</p>

<p>However, there seem to be plenty of people using Soviet 'LTM' lenses on Leicas, so it is not clear to me that the problems are so severe as sometimes claimed. Certainly, as Mukul says, the difference will be lost in the DOF if the lens is stopped down.</p>

<p>My Soviet copies of the Zeiss lenses are very good, but I use them on my Soviet 'Contaxes' and 'Leicas', so how would I know?</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>I am sorry to take this thread in the wrong direction, but here is my understanding of the focus problem. The flange-film distance in all screw Leicas and their copies (FED, Zorki, Canon) is 28.8mm. Therefore Jupiters will mis-focus even on USSR-made cameras with 39mm mounts. They mis-focus because the Leitz and Zeiss standards for nominal focal length -- on which depends the extent of travel of the R/F cam -- are different. A J-3 I had did not focus correctly on a Zorki 1C. That and a J-9 and a J-8 did not focus correctly on screw and M Leicas. The J-8 mis-focussed on a Canon 7 body. There is no question of trouble of this kind on Contax/Kiev bodies.</p>

[frederick_muller]

<p>There seems to be a lot of inflation in Leica lenses - in quality as well. The pieces coming out are more exc+ to exc++ now; no longer the Mint-minus stuff that was easy to get a couple of years ago. And I see exc+ stuff going for prices 30% or more higher than mint-minus stuff a couple of years ago. The trend in quality looks true for all manual focus gear, not just Leica; but the price increases are most pronounced with leica gear.</p>

[mark_amos]

<p>..and how about this: I see that camera quest is asking $679 for last of the silver 28 1.9 Ultrons. My Leica lenses bought about 7 years ago appear to be worth more than twice what I paid used, but I wouldn't expect the inflation of the VCs. S. Gandy might think people will pay more for the last of a discontinued lens, which is cool to me since I have a black one I got for about $445 + $60 for the adapter new in 2007. Maybe they will. Does anybody think the Utron 1.9 has any advantage over the newer f2? I thought the f2 newer was supposed to be "better." <br>

I also have not studied the following carefully enough, but it seems that Voigtlander seems to be slowly developing more advanced lenses and asking more money while discontinuing the ones that were such bargains. My simplest example would be the 28s I was talking about. The new f2 is $579. I know it is M mount, but I paid $505 for the prior model including the adapter.<br>

Also, I'm seeing excellent condition 35 cron aspherical lenses for about $2400, but a new one is only $3000. Once Leica steps up production, assuming they can, the used price has to drop back some, doesn't it?  When I paid $1000 for mine in 2004, B&H priced them new at $1795. (I just checked an old catalog.) That would suggest they should now be at more like $1700. Isn't that about what they were before the M9?</p>

[mark_amos]

<p>BTW Frederick, I think I got that 28 Ultron partially influenced by your satisfaction with it. I have enjoyed using it.</p>

[carbon_dragon]

<p>Wouldn't be too surprising if lens prices had spiked. I mean a Leica M8 went for $5000+ new right and the M9 goes for $7000. If lenses were climbing as fast that might explain the issue.</p>

[frederick_muller]

<p>Mark, the 28mm f1.9 VC Ultron is still one of my standard lenses. That lens and a 50mm form a standard core for use on the RD-1s. I've had a chance to pick up one of the newer 28mm f2's in M-Mount and passed, because I have no complaints about the f1.9. And I can use it on my Canon Model 7's as well.</p>

<p>Not everything Leica is inflating ... I've seen used M8's coming out at quite reasonable prices and picked one up for use as an exclusively black and white platform. Find the black and white tonal range of the M8 sensor quite good. I'm also seeing more used M9's coming out now, though these are still quite pricey.</p>

[mark_amos]

<p>Me too Frederick. I have no complaints about the 28 Ultron on my M6, but I do wonder how you would be completely happy to have your kit on an RD-1s start with a 28 with an equivalent 42mm view, I think, as that seems to be not quite wide enough for the low end. Then again, I don't have any digital body mounts for my M/screw lenses at all, so I would probably be quite content with that and just use something else for wide angle. An equiv 42 and 75 crop covers a lot of situations. I guess that is another topic, but we can both be tickled that Gandy is selling his last Ultrons for so much. Maybe it will be a cult classic even with the new 28 f2 from VC!</p>

[charles_trentelman1]

<p>i am always amazed that there are people who sell Leica cameras and/or lenses. I have never done so, and the few I have met who have done so have always regretted it.</p>

<p> </p>

[colin_elliott]

<p>As a Leica user for the past 45 years, I have bought and sold many Leica R & M cameras, lenses and accessories. I usually have bought these items new, used them for a number of years and in some cases, sold them.<br>

There are one or two items that I "regret" selling but nevertheless, always sold my gear for more than I paid. Generally, I have no regrets as there are not many things in life that you can buy, enjoy and then sell at a profit.</p>

[frederick_muller]

<p>Mark, you are right about the 28mm / 42mm effective not being wide enough. The 28 Ultron and the 50 are a standard set. For wide shots, I add a 12mm f5.6 VC Heliar, which is an 18mm effective on the RD-1s. It is extremely sharp and a joy to use.</p>

[geoff_r1]

<p>Charles, I would love to keep all my Leica lenses, though there is the not insignificant question of their value. I would imagine many, myself included, simply can't hold onto every Leica lens they've ever bought, much as I'd like to. </p>

<p>I tend to stick to 50mm lenses mostly, I've owned a few different 50's, and have kept the two I liked most, though it was a tough decision. Other focal lengths come and then usually go when I havn't used them much, and I want to fund something else. The only one I really miss is the current version 50mm summicron, of which I've owned two, and no doubt will own another in the future, though prices are currently close to double what I sold mine for last year, so it may be a while! Hopefully Leica will release an asph version soon, and everyone will dump their old lenses. </p>