Is the Rolleiflex 6000 system an ugly duck

[paulopires]

<p>First of all please forgive me for my poor English.<br /> <br /> I'm not trying to start another war between Hassel and Rolleiflex users but this is a question that came into my mind in the last few weeks.<br /> <br /> When trying to sell my Rolleiflex 6006 system I got so few answers and so few views in my thread I found it odd.<br /> All the sudden a Hasselblad thread appears and it gets almost immediately hundreds of views and answers.<br /> <br /> IMMO, the Rolleiflex 6000 system is as good as any Hasselblad system. <br /> Both use awesome Zeiss lenses. Both are top of the line 6x6 film cameras.<br /> So... why? Why doesn't the Rolleflex get as much appreciation as Hassel?<br /> <br /> The Rolleiflex is a big and heavy camera. Is that it?<br /> The Rolleiflex uses electronics. Is that it? Not pure enough?<br /> <br /> When it comes down to the pictures, to what really matters, both are equal in the quality they deliver to the photographer.<br /> <br /> So why do you think Hasselblad systems are much more appreciated? Name? Fame? Tradition? History?</p>

[maury_cohen]

<p>I think the Hasselblad name was very established by the time the Rollei SLR came on the scene. I also think that hte Hasselblad has a simpler and somewhat more elegant appearance. </p>

[frank_scheitrowsky1]

<p>The Rolleiflex SLR never caught on big time here in north America. I understand they were more popular in Europe. A mechanical Hasselblad is easier to repair than an electronic Rolleiflex slr.</p>

[paulopires]

<p>Thank you Maury and Franck.<br />Indeed I agree Rolleiflex are more appreciated in Europe or in Asia for instance.<br />Hasselblad is seen as a safe value and the 6000 system is seen like something that can die in your hands forever.<br /><br />Before I got the 6006 I read billions of reviews here and the list of potential problems was huge. Battery issues, no service or expensive service, bad film spacing... in fact my 6006 never gave me any trouble.<br>

I just sold my 6006 and I'm feeling nostalgic. I got a Contax 645 and the lenses don't come near the ones I had for the 6006. :)<br /><br />Thank you guys.</p>

[russ_britt3]

<p>I also think because there are many more lens, film backs ,finders etc available used for the Hasselblad systems on the used market. This allows easier access to completing your system in the future as the need arises.<br>

I too have been a Hasselblad user for over 30 years and have never thought it was better than a Rollie. But that said Hasselblad has certainly kept their systems from becoming obsolete better than most companys, by allowing you to interchange between models and years.<br>

C series optics work on F series cameras, film backs work the same on both models. Pretty much anything from a camera made in 1950s on work on the latest bodies.<br>

I am talking about the film cameras now........but that said all Hasselblads pretty much will take a modern digital back if needed.<br>

No, its not that Rollie's are lacking any thing in the quality department.<br>

Just my FREE opinion......</p>

[russ_britt3]

<p>Again this is in the US......Paulo, everything I said may not be true every where else.</p>

[paulopires]

<p>Oh yes I did understand Russ.<br />And that is a very strong point. As an amateur I just need 3 lenses and that's it. More than enough for my needs. But in fact the Hassel is used mostly by professionals and the need for a versatile system with a wide range of lenses, film backs and finders makes it perfect.<br />Simple and strong point. <br /><br />Thank you.</p>

[mark_l6]

<p>I too have been very happy with my 6006 and lenses, never ever had a problem.<br>

I believe there are many fewer rollei slr's out there, they were made for a shorter period, and just as people worry about the electronic hasselblads, there is worry as time goes by as to just how repairable these cameras are, wheras to my mind thay are so cheap I feel I can buy another as back-up. Rollei has a better name in Europe, where I believe it was marketed rather better than in America where it always was a minority brand.<br>

For me this is all for the good as it means the Rollei gear is cheaper and if you wait long enough you can get whatever you want.<br>

A further point is that at least in America and in Australia where I live there were very few places that rented rollei's compared to hasselblad which seemed to rentable everywhere.<br>

I actually believe they were ahead of their time and the electronics alienated the conservative professionals of the era, wheras rich amateurs loved them and still do, they just don't need to be rich now. I bought a 6006 and three lenses for less than a Nikon D7000, bargain!<br>

Simple now, sell your Contax and buy more Rolleis!</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

Re Europe vs the rest of the world: no difference. After the pre-1960/1970s TLR period, Rollei has always been "a minority brand" in Europe too, with "very few places that rented rollei's compared to hasselblad [and Mamiya] which seemed to rentable everywhere", and all of the rest.<br><br>Why that is is hard to say. Certainly not because they would deliver results that would be less in any way.<br>They were certainly harder to find. Yet not that hard to find that it would explain why fewer people got one.<br>(Proprietary) battery issues (actual of feared - i think the later cameras were undeservedly burdened with the legacy of the earlier SLX model) may be part of it. Too much automation may be an other part of it (not needed by most professional photographers - reason why, for instance, Hasselblad made the 201 F alongside the 205 TCC), combined with not being cheap (if not needed, why have to pay for it?)<br>But still, no real reason why Rollei would not have caught up with Mamiya and Hasselblad.

[graham_mitchell]

<p>Rollei never became a household name the way Hasselblad did. I believe most users would prefer a 6000 series Rollei over a Hasselblad V system if they understood the advantages of the former, but we live in a world where people flock to what they know. That's why marketing is so important!<br>

Btw, I have owned both platforms and liked both, so I consider myself fairly neutral on the matter.</p>

 

[bradleygibson]

<p>Hmmm... I can't say I'm with you on that, Graham, even though, as you know, I too am a Rollei shooter.</p>

<p>As one who's owned digital 500 series Hassy's, 200-series Hassy's and Hy6's, there is a lot to recommend the Hassy program.</p>

<p>I believe #1 has been reliability. The Rollei lenses (in my experience) do require more maintenance than the Hasselblad lenses (particularly the aperture ring control mechanism). The Hassy lens program uses more modern Zeiss designs (including the Superachromats). And (again, at least in North America) the support network is far superior, allowing one to feel more comfortable with the purchase, knowing that support as well as service are readily available.</p>

<p>Now, as I've said, I too am a Rollei shooter, and having owned various V systems (and a H system) I came to Rollei for a reason. *For me*, the has several advantages: Rollei offers AF, a Schneider lens program, the most ergonomic camera in medium format, and a wealth of accessories (arguably comparable to the maturity of the V-series), and 1/1000s shutter speeds.</p>

<p>I'm not sure I'd say that "most users would prefer a 6000-series Rollei over a Hasselblad V system" as do think it is somewhat subjective as to which set of advantages is more important. (And I'm sure I've missed several on both sides.)</p>

<p>Nice to see a civil discussion around brand that has remained elevated above the typical brand-loyal banter.</p>

<p>Hope that helps, Paulo,<br>

-Brad</p>

[paulopires]

<p>First of all thank you so very much for taking the time to add your precious experience and user knowledge to my "out of the heart" thread.<br /><br />Indeed the Hassel flys above Rolei for all reasons stated above and many others.<br />Sometimes I forget that many of you guys are professional photographers and the modular flexibility of the Hasselblad systems wins over the Rollei. No bitterness about that. ;)<br /> But, on the other hand, having guys who owned both systems saying that, image wise, they are equal... I feel a little better.<br /> Yes I do like AF, yes I do like a simple metered system, yes I'm big and clumsy and the Rollei body feels good in my hands... and yes I like Zeiss lenses.<br /><br />In the passionate amateur world, which is mine, always on a budget, the Rollei 6000 is a top of the line system I can afford. I can't say the same about Hasselblad, at least in Europe where the demand make the prices go through the roof.<br /><br />Someone wrote above: "Sell your Contax and get another Rollei."<br /><br />Fool you not my friends, I will do that and I will go back to the Rollei.<br /><br />Thank you all once again.</p>

[andre_noble5]

<p>I think you made a mistake selling it in the first place.</p>

[paulopires]

<p>Andre, banging my head on the table since then. ;)</p>

[graham_mitchell]

<p>When I say most users, I mean that most photographers these days prefer AF, for example, which the Rollei offers and the Hasselblad doesn't. They also prefer proper in-camera metering and AE modes. I was not talking about the current Hasselblad V user base who obviously like or have learned to live with the shortcomings.</p>

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>Hi, in addition to all the ideas given above, i would like to add a little thought to the discussion. I am myself a rollei user. i do find frustrations in the Rollei equipments from time to time. but on the whole it is more reliable than my car. as for the 6006 body, it is not quite a member of the 6000 system. it is not 'forwardly' compatible with most members of the system. So, Paulo, don't worry, sell your contax and get a 6008. you will be delighted. Cheers.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

Isn't the 6008i AF the only Rollei that offers AF anyway?

[tak_l_jasper_poon]

<p>both the 6008AF (not 6008iAF) and Hy6 have autofocus capabilities. but autofocus lenses can still be used with the integral or integral-2 (and older 6008 but not 6006) as a manual focus lenses. however, there is a larger limitation for the 6006. all PQ or PQS lenses are not recommended for the 6006. (in fact most accessories marked with 6000system are really meant for 6008 rather than 6006). All 6008 uses slow acting 0.8A batteries with charger and dischargers. 6006 uses old batteries which are out of production years ago. older electronics also give a noticeable delay in the shutter response. and you do not have aperture priority or programmed exposure. understandably 6006 is not as eagerly demanded as the 6008.</p>

[paulopires]

<p>The 6008 or he 6008AF are my choices.<br />I can get a 6008 outfit from www.ffordes.com without having to mug some old lady in the street but from the 6008 AF the Contax kit has to go.<br /><br />The AF is the only thing I'm still considering... and you are right Tak, the 6006 is a special "guest" in the collection. I guess mr. Steve Byford from ffordes.com is going to get an email soon ;)</p>

[jim_bielecki1]

<p>Last year I stumbled across a mint Rollei 6006 with a 120 back and 80/2.8 lens for a mere $350.00 USD. I quickly bought the camera and love it. I've since picked up a 50mm and 150mm PQ lenses. My only worry is servicing, I have no idea who can fix this thing if something does go wrong.<br /><br />And that may be the best thing about owning a Hasselblad 500 C or CM. Being all mechanical and very common (at least here in the U.S.) servicing shouldn't be a problem.<br /><br />As for marketing the Rollei 6000 series in the U.S. if memory serves it was done by H&P marketing, which was basically a Ma and Pa outfit.. Bob Salomon was their key guy. May have been their only guy too.</p>

<p>Jim B.</p>

[danny_wong2]

<p>In Us and Canada there were better support for blad's due to the number of independence trained technician and rental availability of lens, extra bodies and backs.</p>

[wolf_rainer_schmalfuss]

<p><strong>The traditional camera name ROLLEIFLEX exists long before the HASSELBLAD was born!</strong> The evergreen twin lens ROLLEIFLEX'es normal, wide and telephoto are still in production and are good selling cameras, even without digital backs. The ROLLEIFLEX HY6 is to my taste, the best 6x6 MF-camera on the market, analogue and digital!</p>

[arthur_gottschalk]

<p>I had a Rollei 6008 and sold it. Too much plastic, too high-tech, too complicated, too big. Now I use Hasselblad. I guess I prefer mechanical to electronic, manual loading to power loading etc. I love the feel of the Hasselblad in my hands, and the mechanical way it fires. </p>

[kparratt]

<p>Wolf Rainer: </p>

<blockquote>

<p>The ROLLEIFLEX HY6 is to my taste</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, yes. Had I not already a bundle of Hasselblad gear, and had to choose between an HY6 and maybe even a Hasselblad 203, I may be tempted to go with the HY6, on condition it accepts the Rollei Schneider Super-Angulon 55mm PC-S (Does it? .. anyone know?) .. although some of the Hasselblad FE lenses are optics to use and cherrish until the world ends, starting with 110mm F2.<br>

Hi Wolf ... still owe you a visit.</p>

 

[kparratt]

<p>Had Dr. Reinhold Heidecke and Victor Hasselblad not agreed in 1957 to 'not compete' in each other's field, (No Rollei SLR medium format and no Hasselblad TLR) maybe Walter Schirra would have had a choice when he walked into the Houston camera shop, to buy a camera for the 1962 Sigma 7 Mercury flight. But would he have chosen the relatively bulky SL66 over the Hasselblad? I doubt it. <strong><a rel="nofollow" href="The%20Hasselblad%20500C%20was%20a%20smaller,%20neater%20package">The Hasselblad 500C was a smaller, neater package</a></strong> and it would have been a done deal, whilst the SL66 would have sat on the shelf, waiting for someone who appreciated the bellows function and tilt lens, neither of which would serve any purpose on that mission. As there was nothing on the market to compete with the Hasselblad, the future lay before it on a red carpet journey to fame.<br /> It is amazing really that photographers put up with the mirror cut-off, which effected viewing with long extensions and long focal lengths. But such is the quality of manufacture, and the neatness of design, they did, and many still do, myself included. We accept it as a quirk, and learn to see through it. Of course this is only an issue with earlier generations of 500 C/M models, and to a lesser degree with EL/M. But still, Hasselblad remains in business whilst Rollei is not, neither is the other significant MF SLR competitor, Bronica. Bronica fell behind in the compatibility issue - each model needed it's own magazines, lenses and other accessories, which, as pointed out earlier in the thread, Hasselblad designed to minimise this. You could mount a V interface digital back on the first Hasselblad 500C, and in fact as 1600F and 1000F film magazines can be used on later models, I don't see why the V digital backs would not be usable on them too. (Please correct me if this is not the case) Now that is a tough act to follow. ;-)</p>