Voigtlander Bergheil - A small one

[cliffmanley]

You have to have one of these in your hands to truly appreciate how tiny they are. Here is a shot with a quarter sitting on the bed.<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

Here is a little wallet that holds the three nickle silver holders. I have them loaded with TMX100. The quarter is for size reference.<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

Here is a shot of the camera with it's silver plate back, showing the ground glass, an extra holder, and a plate holder in the camera. Notice the entire camera back is silver! It will use 127 roll film or glass, photo paper, or film in the plate holders.<div></div>

[david_weiss2]

<p>Cliff,</p>

<p>I really like that pack of film - amazing what it was like back then. <br>

Two things - how did you cut the aluminum? I am thinking tin snips but those always put a lip on it ( I don't mess much with metal cutting obviously). Secondly, where are some examples of pictures you have taken with this set-up? That I would really like to see.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[cliffmanley]

Yes tin snips. If they are sharp they wont put a lip on anything. Also don't try to just cut out a piece with one cut to a side. You want to cut the part out of the big sheet close to the finish line but not quite to it. That way your last cut will be a nice little curl of metal not more than 1/8 inch wide. If you try to cut right on your finish line to start with, the entire piece will end up as a curl. You want to approach the finish layout mark with small curls cuts, and your main piece will stay flat. Hope I described that so you can understand what I'm saying. As for shots with this camera, Hmmm... I'll look and see what i can find. I think I have posted some here before.

[cliffmanley]

<p>These posts all have picures from my little plate camera.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00Vqmi?start=0">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00Vqmi?start=0</a><br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PU89">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PU89</a><br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PYaq?start=0">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PYaq?start=0</a></p>

<p> </p>

[cliffmanley]

Ok David, I was inspired to take a photo with the little camera today. I planted these plants three years ago and they finally bloomed a few days ago for the first time. So here are two shots with the little plate camera using TMX 100, no filters, Didn't even clean the dust off the camera lens. And the holders I have had loaded for a long time and they had some dust and dirt too. Anyway here are the results from a 1921 Goerz Dogmar 7.5cm lens. and film in the glass plate holders.<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

Wide open<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

And a close crop of the wide open shot. Oh, if the old timers only had the film we have today! Think of what they could have done! Most of them were stuck with Ortho film!<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

I probably should have used a yellow or orange filter since the flower is a light purple at the base going to white at the tip, but you can't see it in the photo. It didn't grab the tones at all. So much for pan film, Huh? You still need the filters! I'm sure they would have had more depth.

 

I'm sure you will get similar results with your little Bergie! Post some pictures when you can!

[david_weiss2]

<p>Cliff,</p>

<p>I think those pictures are wonderful! I am surprised the edges are so smooth - did you crop a bit? I am lucky that I do have the yellow filter and will be using it. That was another piece that I received - it has flexible metal bands that allow it to attach to the front of the lens. I will post when it all works out. So far, I have bought the metal backing but have not yet cut it. I hope to do that and the next day or two. </p>

[cliffmanley]

Actually the holder for my scanner crops them a little. Here are the two complete negatives just thrown on the flatbed. notice there is a border around the entire negative. These were in the nickle silver holders that load from the back. The other holders, like yours, only have a clear border at the ends.

Notice also the clipped corners. I always clip the top right corners of the film to indicate the emulsion side when I cut it down from large stock.<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

I forgot to mention that the flat black paint made for BBQ grills is the best to use on aluminum. It is made to stick to bare aluminum. Most other paints will flake off unless you prime with zinc chromate or something similar. But you need to paint them black or you will get halation flare through the film. It doesn't really matter if you are going to use them with photo paper and make paper negatives. That works great too but pretty long exposures on a tripod. I always figure with an K2 yellow filter about ASA.5 or 1.5 without the filter. some of the papers are a bit faster but not much!

[eugen_mezei]

<p>Cliff,<br>

could you explain how to open the film pack? I bought one of these 2 years ago and put it in the freezer. The first 4 sheets are exposed. If it is safe to remove them I would try to develop them.<br>

Just recently I bought a Voigtländer Avus 6x9 with Xenar lens. The seller ripped me of as he promised plate holders and never shipped them, but the camera itself works fine and is just tiny and pocketable. (Well... big coat pocket.) Fortunately I have a Plaubel rollfilmholder that fits and I want to put the above mentioned film pack to work on it, but first I would like to develop the 4 exposed sheets, so to make the necessary compensations when exposing mine. (We talk about a film from the beginning of the last century, need to look at the production data.)<br>

Greetings,<br>

Eugen</p>

[cliffmanley]

Ok Eugen, I'll try to explain this. Once you remove the first tab, the protective shield, you must keep the pack in the holder or all the unexposed sheets will be exposed, until the last film is pulled to the back. To remove expose sheets before the pack is done, the pack must be removed from the pack holder IN THE DARK. So with that said, just take the pack film holder in the darkroom or a changing bag, remove the pack from it and place your thumbs on the metal cover and slide it off. The exposed films will be right there on the top. Then slide the metal cover back on and place the pack back in the pack film holder, while still in the dark. On the Kodak type when sliding the cover back on you need to squeeze it to compress the light seal material then slide it back on the little tabs. On the Agfa type, you need to press in on the opposite side when sliding it off and back on. I hope these pictures help to describe the process enough that you can do it in the dark.

 

The real trick is to be careful with your tabs and not tear them off after each shot, so you can re-tape new film onto them and reload your pack. You need to cut film from roll film stock since sheet film is too thick to make the bend at the end of the pack.<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

next shot<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

Agfa pack<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

Press on bar with index fingers<div></div>

[cliffmanley]

So did that help you?

[david_weiss2]

<p>Cliff,</p>

<p>Just a question - I made 6 of the aluminum inserts and painted them today so I am ready to load my individual holders. Any hints about cutting the film (got the corner trick from one of your other posts). I haven't developed sheet film - I am envisioning continuous agitation in a small tray - do you have any recommendations for film/developer combos for doing this? </p>

<p>I bet ortho film would be a good idea at some point!</p>

<p>The shutter could probably use a cleaning but I cannot get the rear element off. It seems like it should be easy enough (it has a ring around it that looks like it is meant to be easily removed) but I have not mastered it yet. If I trip the shutter right after cocking it, I get times pretty close to the correct ones (except for 1/2 and 1 second which are about 1 1/2 stops off). If I wait say 30 seconds, most of the previously good times become much slower, about a stop.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>Dave, take a look at these two posts.</p>

<p> http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00UINZ for Ortho film example</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PNen How to handle film for plate cameras</p>

<p>You can use any film and just develop it as you would in a tank. continuous agitation is pretty grainy, so I wouldn't do that. If you use photo paper or the ortho film use the yellow filter, and develop in regular film developer not paper or lith developer. You should be able to clean up the shutter easy enough. There is plenty of info out there on the compur shutters.</p>

[cliffmanley]

<blockquote>

<p>"If I wait say 30 seconds, most of the previously good times become much slower, about a stop."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If you use the yellow filter you will be adding two stops for that so just add 3 and give it a whirl.</p>

[david_weiss2]

<p>Cliff,</p>

<p>Those links were great - a lot of good information. In retrospect, it all seems so obvious, but it wasn't until I saw it done in print. I am still not sure about why I would develop paper in a film developer but will give it a shot. I am going to give the paper a shot first then the film later this week perhaps. </p>

<p>I must say, this has been an interesting experience already and I fully recommend this to anyone who likes to breath life into older cameras. I am actually excited to give it a whirl as you say.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[cliffmanley]

I think you will find that when you are using the photo paper to make a negative from real world colors and light, the contrast is easier to control when treated like any other black and white "Film".

Try it and see. Your mileage may vary. Find something that YOU like best. The nice thing is that you can do it all in the red light and see what's happening. Good luck and have fun. Then teach someone else how to do it!

[cliffmanley]

You might even go down to your framing shop and get them to cut you a bunch of glass plates. Then get a bottle of liquid light and pour some plates and let them dry.

 

You could even make a dark tent in the trunk of your car with snaps around the trunk lid so when you open the trunk, it's already set up. Then you can do plates and paper negatives, etc anywhere.

You might even want to get an 8x10 camera to do paper negatives and make 8x10 contact prints on the spot to sell to all the people that gather around to see what the heck you are doing! I'm throwing these ideas out there for anyone who is reading the thread. In this day and age of rampant unemployment, just make your own job! Just drive to a scenic tourist location and set up your camera next to your car and start shooting landscapes. Make some contact prints and hang them from a line to dry and the crowd will start to gather, believe me. You have the 12 volts right in your trunk to run your safe light and contact printer bulbs. And your results will be better than the old dark tintypes. Just remember to tell everyone that it is a hobby of yours, and you don't really SELL them, but if they like them you will take donations to further your hobby! That will keep the business license creeps off your back!