Can't fix a flim, what's wrong?

[edward_voitekunas]

<p>Hi there! Got quite unusual situation with film fixing that i nevver came across before.I was trying Ansco 47 developer and first bunch came out as it should be,very nice negs indeed.So I loaded another drum and got a trouble.After development developer came out coloured reddish which showed the trouble was on a way.<br>

I'm doing mainly sheet film FP4 in D76 1+1 using expert drum and CPP2 processor.Don't do presoaking but when i used to do water was coming out inky greenish black.So I thought it might be a developer failure as I made one substitute in preservative.Instead of sodium bisulfite i put sodium metabisulfite which supposed to work fine.<br>

Anyway after fixing and washing the film I discovered the film to be not cleared.I had a neg with some signs of image on a milky coloured base which shows that film wasn't fixed .Please,note that I opened a tank after 5 minutes fixing in acid Agfa rapid fixer and after 5 min. rinse.<br>

So I made another run increasing fixing time and pouring fresh fixer - same thing- didn't clear it up! I mixed fresh brew of TF3 alakaline fixer which is much stronger - could see a bit difference but not much.Put a strip of exposed film in both fixers- was cleared up in a second!<br>

Film doesn't look solarized just a normal negative image- not properly developed- on uncleared milky base.I accept developer failure but why can't I clear the film? Fogged,exposed film always do clear,so this is a puzzle to me.I left two sheets in each fixers overnight will see what happens...Oh,I don't do stop bath,just water rinse after developer.<br>

Thanks for the time<br>

Edward</p>

[paul_hoyt]

<p>The color you see when you pre-soak is a dye that is supposed to dissolve out of the negative during the developing process; it just comes out sooner and is normal. Possibly the metabisulfite has changed the pH and neither the developer or fixer is able to function; just a guess. If you still have the negatives, try washing, acid stop, then your fixer to see if it clears the negatives.</p>

<p>Paul</p>

[edward_voitekunas]

<p>Thanks for response.I didn't presoak film.First batch of film came out as it should,so don't think metabisulfite changes PH.Faulty negs were left overnight.One in highly concentrated acid fixer- shows some signs of cleaning but not transparent.Other was left in TF3- not much difference,still milky.Both fixers work fine on a strip of unexposed film.</p>

[paul_hoyt]

<p>I was just commenting on your statement about <em>inky greenish black </em>color had you change to the metabisulfie salt. With a pre-soak it comes out with the water, if you bypass the pre-soak it comes out in the developer; it always comes out in the first wet process. I have made the mistake of using the concentrated Rapid Fixer instead of the diluted Rapid fixer and my negative failed to clear. I discovered the mistake when one fell into my sink and landed in water and cleared where the water streamed over the negative. The question is why don't your negative clear, regardless of the development. Development is pH dependent; fixing is concentration dependent, too strong or too weak produces the same results. You indicate exposed film (I assume undeveloped) will clear immediately, then the developer must have something in it that blocks the thiosulfate from doing it job. If you solve this issue, let us know.</p>

<p>Paul</p>

[edward_voitekunas]

<p>Right,no miracles out there.We still live on the planet Earth with things doing what we expect them to do.Seeing that reddish developer coming out instantly spring in mind that it's more like Kodak film used to do.So I check notches for triangles but haven't found any , just ovals just like FP4. JUST...<br>

I was doing a bunch of films which I shoot two month ago.I always use FP4 and sometimes TRiX.So I was so sure I didn't bother to check 100%.Wish I did check.That was 4 sheets of PROVIA! which has similiar notches as FP4 but a bit further apart!<br>

Ansco was trying it's best to do the job as a first developer(which it did putting more confusion in the case),film waiting for color developer refuses to accept fixer as a substitute.So here we are - unfixed film with black and white image on it!To the glory of Agfa fixer it nearly did mission impossible overnight and almost cleared the film!<br>

Despite feeling embarassed(let us put it this way) I'm glad I found out what's wrong!From other hand I'm very pleased Ansco didn't fail.So substitute does work and it has shelf life(I was afraid lack of bisulfite will lead to fast oxidation and exaustion)Very nice developer BTW (they say for low contrast scenes and studio but I find it's ok for normal light as well)<br>

So thank You all for Your time,and sorry for unrelevant post,<br>

Edward</p>

<p> </p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Mystery solved. Bummer though.</p>

[profhlynnjones]

<p>All b/w films other than 35mm have antihalation dyes, the color of the dye is the same as the lowest cikir sensitivity for that film. If you pre-soak most of it will wash out, if you don't pre-soak nothing will happen, it doesn't hurt anything, it just makes your developer an ugly color!</p>

<p>Lynn</p>

[edward_voitekunas]

<p>Thanks to all of You for Your time.One thing I can't understand is why people go on and on about dyes and antihalation layer.Question was why can't i fix the film,not about presoaking or antihalation dye.<br>

From my experience if You don't presoak film nothing will color developer.It will come out same color it went in.Dye might sit in a film till the end and if You don't wash film properly it will tint the base pinkish colr.Give it a good wash and it will go.That's my experience with FP4 and D76,Ansco 47,17,and Edwal10.None of these was colored and never be if You are on a right track.<br>

Reason I'm putting all this ,because it might confuse people who just started bw processing.So please,let read questions first and speak from experience only.<br>

Edward</p>