dust and how to get rid of it

[dave42]

<p>Hi everyone,<br>

i am hoping someone of great experience can shed some light into how to get rid of the dust on my negatives or at least minimize them.<br>

maybe how to deal with it when printing?<br>

any advice or tricks or secrets would be greatly appreciated!<br>

cheers,<br>

david</p><div></div>

[chris_waller]

<p>It needs an in-depth approach. I use filtered water for all my film processing chemicals. I reuse my stop and fixer so I filter them every so often through coffee filters. I dry my negs in a film dryer (an old 6 foot single-door locker with foam rubber round the door). I use an antistatic wetting agent (Tetenal Mirasol). I store my negs in acid-free paper sleeves (these don't generate static). I use an antistatic brush to dust off the negs before printing.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>"Spotting" became a major part of a film photographer's time when we turned to small negatives on which every little speck was fairly obvious.</p>

<p>If you look around on the internet, there is still some discussion of this. Supplies for spotting are still available, but harder to find than formerly.</p>

<p>Most older textbooks/handbooks on photography will have whole sections on this. Try your local library and look at the old books. One that gives particularly complete DIY instructions is Aaron Sussman's 1965 ed of his long-term classic <em>The Amateur Photographer's Handbook</em>, if you can find a copy of it.</p><div></div>

[JDMvW]

<p>On the other hand, if you are digitizing the negatives, you can always do the directly analogous spotting using various forms of "cloning" tools in programs like Photoshop. Advantage to digital is that, like spotting the negative rather than the print, you only have to spot the image once. :)</p>

[dave42]

<p>Dear Chris,<br>

Thanks! and Wow!<br>

Cheers,<br>

David</p>

[dave42]

<p>Dear JDM,<br>

THANKS! just scanning for web page purposes but am getting into real printing so these marks are killing my prints.<br>

thanks again!<br>

cheers,<br>

david</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>After the fact, spotting is the usual method. If the dust marks are on the negatives themselves (fairly rare), some negatives can be retouched, especially large format. Spotting 35mm negatives is too painful to comprehend. You're better off scanning them and spotting digitally. Medium format negatives can be spotted but I'm not sure how many still have a retouching surface. Probably easier to scan and retouch.</p>

<p>As JDM noted, spotting prints is still the way to go for afer-the-fact spots. But there are a few tricks for helping minimize the problem.</p>

<p>My last permanent darkroom shared a utility space with the laundry room. Usually that'd be a mess due to airborne dust from washing and drying clothes. Worse, my favorite enlarger used a glass negative carrier.</p>

<p>I solved the problem by making sure the dryer vent was a tight fit and, most essential, by using a HEPA recirculating air filter. I used a unit about the size of an older computer tower - largish box shaped thing. It was designed for a much larger room so it worked very well in the smaller utility room. I replaced the standard filter with three layers of particulate filters including electrostatic filters. I left the filter running 24/7 on low. About half an hour before doing any processing or printing I'd crank it up to high and usually left it on high or medium during film processing and printing. Besides keeping the dust under control the gentle airflow helped dry my negatives and prints more quickly and cleanly. I never had to spot a print.</p>

[rg nelson]

<p>David, I start by trying to take multiple exposures of the same subject. Sometimes I'll take more than one picture to bracket exposures or slightly change perspective but more often than not it's because too often I'll get a negative I like and find a small scratch, a stuck piece of dust, or something else wrong. So having another negative can be handy. Then I try to keep my darkroom (in the basement next to the laundry room) as clean and free of dust as I can. I don't run the exhaust fans while processing negatives to avoid stirring up any dust. About 5 or 10 minutes before hanging film to dry I'll run hot water through the faucet's spray attachment to put water vapor in the air in the hope that any dust will find itself attached to the water droplets and settle out of the air. Probably not very environmentally friendly I'm afraid but I suppose I could skip a shower once a week to make up if the guilt really gets to me. I do a final rinse in distilled H2O and wetting agent, hang the negatives, and leave them to dry un-disturbed for a few hours. It seems like an awful lot of trouble but I'm convinced it reduces the chance of dust permanently sticking to a wet emulsion. I commonly see dust specs when I print, especially from negatives printed before. So anti-static brush, canned air, and hopefully fewer rather than more dust specks. I pretty much gave up spotting unless the spec really stands out on the print. Then it's spottone and luck.</p>

 

[Bill C]

<p>David, your image seems to show little curly thread-like particles on the film. They look very much like "film skivings," fine shavings of gelatin off the edge of the film. Do you have anything in your system, neg carriers, etc, where the edge of film can run up against anything that might have burrs on it?</p>

<p>The other advice is all good, but here's a little more direct advice, for the actual printing step. Inspect the negative closely (if you don't have good close-up vision, perhaps a hi-strength pair of reading glasses?), while it is in the negative carrier, for dust laying on the surface. You need a hard light, from above or raking across the neg, to emphasize the dust particles. Look at both sides. If you see anything, one common method is to blow compressed air through a fine nozzle to blow off the particle(s); various "canned air" types are available. Some people use a fine brush, made for this purpose.</p>

<p>One thing that is significant in staying dust free, is the humidity in your darkroom. If it's way low, it's hard to bleed off static electricity from your film, and it will be like a magnet to some dust. If you use a brush, and find that you can't remove a spec of dust, but only slide it around, this is due to a static charge on the film. There are special air ionizers made which will neutralize this, or you can do something to get your humidity up. You'd ideally like to be around 40-60% relative humidity.</p>

<p>Hope this helps a bit.</p>

[Bill C]

<p>David, your image seems to show little curly thread-like particles on the film. They look very much like "film skivings," fine shavings of gelatin off the edge of the film. Do you have anything in your system, neg carriers, etc, where the edge of film can run up against anything that might have burrs on it?</p>

<p>The other advice is all good, but here's a little more direct advice, for the actual printing step. Inspect the negative closely (if you don't have good close-up vision, perhaps a hi-strength pair of reading glasses?), while it is in the negative carrier, for dust laying on the surface. You need a hard light, from above or raking across the neg, to emphasize the dust particles. Look at both sides. If you see anything, one common method is to blow compressed air through a fine nozzle to blow off the particle(s); various "canned air" types are available. Some people use a fine brush, made for this purpose.</p>

<p>One thing that is significant in staying dust free, is the humidity in your darkroom. If it's way low, it's hard to bleed off static electricity from your film, and it will be like a magnet to some dust. If you use a brush, and find that you can't remove a spec of dust, but only slide it around, this is due to a static charge on the film. There are special air ionizers made which will neutralize this, or you can do something to get your humidity up. You'd ideally like to be around 40-60% relative humidity.</p>

<p>Hope this helps a bit.</p>

[dave42]

<p>Hi bill,<br>

interesting, so before I start developing wipe the neg wtih an anti-static brush?<br>

I am developing by dip and dunk using yankee plastic tanks and old kodak stainless steel hangers, so no rubbing against the the side of the neg, maybe my agitation is too rough?<br>

I have used compressed air to clean the holders and my changing tent<br>

Thanks and thanks everyone for the input<br>

cheers,<br>

david</p>

[Bill C]

<p>David, to be clear, everything I am saying is only after the film has been dried, and immediately prior to putting the negatives in your enlarger. Personally, I would only brush, if necessary, trying to minimize touching the surface of the film as much as possible. Brushing or wiping, or even just unwinding film from a roll can produce a static charge. If you find that you DO have a static charge on the film, and you DO have a good (less than a couple years old) antistatic brush, just holding the antistatic element close for a few seconds will dissipate the charge. As a note, static charges only matter if there is dust close enough to be attracted - if you have NO dust in the immediate area, then it won't matter if the negative has a charge or not.</p>

<p>Regarding the possible skivings, these can only produced with dry film, so it would only occur sliding your negs into a carrier, or the like. You can generate some, just to see what they're like, by very lightly scraping a sharp knife or razor against the edge of a negative. By comparing, you can probably determine if your particles look like this.</p>

[maris_rusis]

<p>If you have black dust spots on your positive images, and that's what I think I see, then the dust must have been on the surface of the film before it was exposed. This is very rare with factory loaded 35mm and 120 roll-film but a very common with home loaded sheet film. What are you shooting? How?</p>

[dave42]

<p>Hey Bill,<br>

Thanks for the clarification, phew!<br>

Maris, I am shooting 4x5 sheet film. acros 100/tmax 100/fuji 160s<br>

thanks<br>

Cheers,<br>

david</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Clean all your holders and the inside of your camera. Those bellows hold a ton of dust. I used to use dryer sheets inside mine to get all the hidden 60 year old things out. It gets the dust and leaves an antistatic layer.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>As noted in several posts, spotting is the end solution. To minimize the amount of it you have to do, any and all measures to reduce dust, dried chemicals, etc., etc. before you print is all to the good.</p>

<p>Glass carriers do a nice job of holding the negative flat, but they are notorious for getting dust, etc. on them. Think of it, six surfaces on which contamination can rest, the four on the two sides of each glass and the two sides of the film. Many people put up with less than flat negatives, just to avoid the dust.</p>

[dave42]

<p>thanks dryer sheets, never would have thought of that.<br>

thanks everyone for the quick and insightful responses<br>

cheers,<br>

david</p>

[User_5888660]

<p>Mark and Larry are spot on here. The problem is occurring before you expose the film. Dust and threads (especially from artificial fabrics--the curly bits) will show up as black spots and lines on the final print if they are on the film at the time it is exposed. <br>

I shoot a lot in rural areas and drive a lot on gravel roads. For LF, here is what I do. 1. Clean and vacuum your film holders on a regular basis. Wipe with an anti-static cloth before loading.<br>

2. Store loaded holders in ziploc bags. <br>

3. Vacuum the inside of your camera and wipe with an anti-static cloth on a regular basis. <br>

4. Carry the camera in some sort of dust proof case. <br>

5. When getting ready to shoot, wipe the film holder with an anti-static cloth before inserting into the camera. Pull the darkslide slowly. If pulled quickly, a static charge will build up and any dust in the camera will be attracted to the film--in the sky area in particular because gravity works. <br>

6. Wipe the dark slide with an anti-static cloth before reinserting into the holder.<br>

7. Put the holder back into a ziplock until processed. </p>

<p>It sounds like a lot to go through, but it is quite simple once you institute a dust reduction plan, and it saves hours in bleaching and spotting prints. (You cannot just spot a dark line or spot on the print, You first have to bleach the dark spot to get it white and then you can spot with regular spotting dyes.) </p>

<p> </p>

[dave42]

<p>Dear Allen,<br>

thanks for the great procedure.<br>

cheers,<br>

david</p>

 

[larrydressler]

<p>Spot on? Almost funny in this context. :-)</p>

[Bill C]

<p>>> [Maris] If you have black dust spots on your positive images, and that's what I think I see, <<<br>

 <br>

I might have to change my position on this; Maris has just given me a reality check. Everything I've said was based on my interpretation of the posted image being a negative view - that is, the way the negative appears if you examine it on a light table. So I've been thinking of this as physical particles laying on the negative.<br>

 <br>

Now that I look again, I THINK that perhaps this is a positive view, but I'm not certain (and I've looked at it both ways). So, if you could answer this... if you look directly through the negative (with a light behind it), are the dust particles CLEAR, or are they DARK?<br>

 <br>

If the negative has clear spots, that means the dust was on the film prior to exposure, and everyone speaking to the cleanliness of film holders, the film loading process (in changing bag), and inside of camera is right. Also, these clear spots on negative will print as dark spots on the paper, and these CANNOT BE SPOTTED OUT. Spotting only works when spots on the print are lighter than the surrounding area.<br>

 <br>

If the negative has dark spots, that means the particles are on the negative during printing (when the negative is in the enlarger), and this is what my previous comments have addressed. This also means that spotting is possible.</p>

[mjferron]

<p>I have a dedicated, sealed dark "closet" with a small work table for loading film and an above system for hanging films horizontally. A frequently cleaned tile floor helps keep dust to a minimum. When hanging wet films I move slow and close the door slow as to not stir much dust. Doing this I get very little dust on the films themselves. Works for me.</p>

[dave42]

<p>Hi Bill,<br>

Yes its a positive image, resulting scan.<br>

Yes the negative has clear spots so "damaged" by dust<br>

thanks for the input though<br>

:-)<br>

Hey Michael, i don't have that kind of space available, I have a changing tent - "shadow box" for loading film. thanks.<br>

cheers<br>

david</p>

[david_r_lewis]

<p>David,<br>

" Minus density " on a negative will produce dark spots on a print. This can be caused by dust on the film prior to exposure of because of a pin hole in the emulsion or an air bubble attaching itself to the film during processing. Over the years, I have experienced them all. With me, the cause is not as important as what can I do to fix the problem. I will first use spotting dye on the base side of the negative. That will fix most of the small circular spots. I use a # 1 brush so I can load it up with dye. If I get too much dye on the negative, I can go back and remove a little bit of dye with distilled water, or just spot the white spot on the print. I am also proficient with retouching leads. I personally like # 2H. A really fine point can do wonders on the curly boogers especially on 4x5. It does take a bit of practice, but I used to keep a retouching machine at the house as well as the studio and could work after I put the children to bed.<br>

Warmest regards,<br>

David R. Lewis </p>

[thom_milson]

<p>Some really good advice here, I've been getting some light spots and every now and again and know I know the stage at which they are being caused. To be honest they never really bothered me when I started taking photos - I though that sometimes they were pretty aesthetically interesting. I never thought about how to get rid of them, but as I'm starting to photograph more and more I really want to perfect everything technically. So thankyou.</p>