Why has no one invented a truly ergonomic lens mount?

[paul_de_ley]

<p>Meaning a mount design that allows you to fit the lens and body to each other without having to turn over the lens and camera to face you the right way, requiring you to directly look at and line up the red, orange or white marker dots.</p>

<p>Like for example a short collar with strategically placed groove(s) around the body part of the mount to guide a short self-guiding flange or wedge on the lens' male part of the mount to its correct position so they will fit and click in one attempt, even when you're juggling in the pit of your elbow the other body or lens you just took off etc.</p>

<p>Or even just some differently textured surface or projections near the base of the lens would be an improvement, so your fingers will at least get some tactile feedback on how exactly you're holding the lens & whether you need to turn it one way or the other to position its mount flanges correctly, relative to the wider and narrower edges of the body's counterpart.</p>

<p>Or does such a system actually already exist for at least one brand/mount? I've handled most of the major 35mm pre-AF mounts at some time or other, and the AF mounts of Sony/Minolta (mostly) as well as Canon and Nikon (a little bit). They're all mechanically solid but none allow you to do a quick lens/body swap at the first attempt without looking at the parts (and your fingers) from the right angle, and so far I'm experiencing no indication that I'll learn from experience to get any handier at it any time soon :)</p>

[chris_letts]

<p>It's a bit late now - they'd not only have to invent the mount, but also invent some way to make that mount backward compatible with existing lenses.<br>

I don't mind looking for the dot, but it's annoying when some lens makers don't even put a dot on the lens!</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Perhaps it comes from doing it for few a decades, but I manage to mount my Nikon lenses one-handed, without looking, all the time. The bayonet only works one way, and most of the lenses have asymmetric features that I can use for blind orientation at first grab. You can never be more than 180 degrees off from having the lens lined up right, and the odds are that you are never more than 90 degress off, even if you're trying it randomly, without knowing the lens by feel. I certainly don't need to line up dots or change the orientation of the camera body in order to get it quickly right.<br /><br />If I'm having to change lenses like the pit crew changes tires at a race track, then split seconds must be important, and the shooting must be critical indeed ... at which point there should be no trouble at all justifying the use of two camera bodies, each with different lenses mounted. Which is why that's just what you see when pros are shooting sports, weddings, etc. Modern high-quality zoom lenses have also made this whole issue far less pressing than it ever used to be. But regardless, even when I'm seriously under the gun and <em>do</em> have to change lenses in a big hurry, Nikon's mount sure hasn't - in over thirty years of using it - slowed me down in a way that has ever cost me a shot or caused me to drop lens. It's all what you're used to, I suppose. I can't comment on how fiddly the Pentax, Olympus, Canon, Sony, Leica and other mounts are - never felt the need to test myself (or them!).</p>

[derek_kennedy]

<p>Cus that would make sense. Cant have that.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>On the manual focus Nikon lenses, for me the "rabbit ears" served the purpose you describe; no need to look at the dot on the lens or the camera, the lens comes out of the bag already in the correct position and after a while it became second nature. That advantage is a bit lost with the newer AF lenses, though the focus distance window usually makes sure it comes out of the bag already in the correct position.<br>

The red dot on the Leica M and R lenses serves the same purpose of tactile feedback; because of the position of the release button and alignment dot, I can't mount a lens without facing the camera though; I very much favor Nikon's arrangement.</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>I cannot say that any of the several lens mounts I have used has given me trouble except sometimes in the dark.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

<p> I don't have that problem with Nikon or Canon lenses, just look at the lens to see that Canon's red indexing dot on the lens is up and that is slightly to the left. Practice makes perfect. Like MAtt I can do it with one hand if the camera is tripod mounted or hanging from shoulder or neck. </p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>Ok to be more accurate I should have written: They're all mechanically solid but none allow <em>me</em> to do a quick lens/body swap <em>so I will be definitely successful</em> at the first attempt without looking at the parts (and my fingers) from the right angle.</p>

<p>It's true in general that compact lenses are not such a problem, but with big teles on tripod, or macro setups on bellows etc I often miss when it matters most, because it either gets more involved to point the lens/bellows away from the subject so I can see the mount markers - or I'm just too excited and therefore even more clumsy than usual!</p>

<p>Like Matt writes the Nikon rabbit ears are definitely more helpful for "blind" positioning, but to me things like projecting bayonets and levers have always been something to avoid touching, so as not to end up inadvertently smudging the rear element and then having to spend the next 10 minutes cleaning it (for lenses that have an exposed lower backside, at least).</p>

<p>And yes, the serious workaround is of course to have multiple bodies ready on the various lenses you expect to need for the event at hand. But the whole point of an interchangeable lens camera should be that it doesn't have to be that way, or should it? I guess another way of phrasing that would be to say camera constructors have a vested interest to make us buy & lug around more bodies, rather than streamlining the mount ergonomics to the point where swapping becomes as quick & easy as it could possibly get ;)</p>

<p> </p>

[luis_g]

<p>Like Matt, and probably due to the same reason, I have no problems.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Well there is no alignment problems with the Leica or Pentax screw mount lenses. :)</p>

<p>Otherwise, knowing your lenses and a lots of practice helps. For instance, Pentax 645 lens bodies have a raised button on them that is aligned with the release button on the body for mounting, easy to do in the dark without being able to see the red paint dots.</p>

<p> </p>

[mark_ritz]

<blockquote>

<p>Or does such a system actually already exist for at least one brand/mount?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Maybe?<br>

A large format lens slides into a unthreaded hole. Then it has a retaining ring on the back side. But most lens boards mount any which way they choose. My Toyo View is a square, so there is no wrong direction to put it on, besides backwards. It uses two metal sliders to stay in place. You don't have to look, but it does require two hands.</p>

[gary_mayo1]

<p>I Love My F Mount!</p>

[jtk]

<p>Original Canon FD mount. Press to fit, turn the ring to lock in place (FD mount was designed specifically to prevent any registration issue having to do with the wear that in theory occurs with conventional bayonet mounts (eg Leica M, Leica R, Nikon F, Minolta).</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>Paul De Ley: "... camera constructors have a vested interest to make us buy & lug around more bodies, rather than streamlining the mount ergonomics...".</p>

<p>All camera makers have praised their lens mount systems in their advertising and in their other literature. Are we to understand that they sang the praises of what they had deliberately designed badly?</p>

[todd peach seattle, washi]

<p>I'm with Matt, it's pretty normal for me to "one hand" my Nikon lenses on and off.</p>

<p>The one situation that gives me pause is when the lens is mounted on a tripod, and I'm trying to remove the body and re-install another. It's just "bass-ackwards" enough from normal that I have to stop and think about what I'm doing.</p>

[vick_vickery]

<p>Paul, you got into this stuff about 40 years too late for what you want! :-) The old Pentax/Practica screw mount (M42) could do that...in fact, it was east to change lenses in a darkened theater, etc., because you just unscrewed one lens, put it aside, and stuck the back of the other lens on the hole in the front of the camera and turned it toward your left side 'till it stopped! I resisted bayonet mounts for many years because you had to look at the lens/camera to change the lenses; finally gave up after everybody switched and it got to be hard to find the lenses I wanted in screw mount.</p>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>Two unusual mounts from the past: Kodak Signet 80, 35mm rangefinder and National Graflex 120 SLR mirror camera actually 6x7 format from the 1930's. The lenses for each had a groove on an otherwise smooth (non threaded, non bayoneted tube). The lenses was inserted into the camera body and held in place by a sliding "C" Clip, very clever and quite fast to do without even looking! </p>

[david_carroll4]

<p>The Olympus OM mount is, for me, the easiest to operate by feel. Line the lens release knob (easy to find with your thumb - knurled, vs the smooth DOF knob on the opposite side) up with the front of the pentaprism, a slight anticlockwise twist and the lens drops into the mount. Twist clockwise and "click" - it's on. Removing the lens is even easier, as the release is on the lens, you press as you twist, and the lens is off in one motion - no looking for a release button on the camera body. This is even handier when using a larger lens - you just hold the release knob on and twist the body off. I've tried all of the major mounts, and none is as intuitive to me as the OM.</p>

[sknowles]

<p>I don't quite see the point. I've changed lenses on Minolta (manual) and Canon (EOS) bodies with one hand while holding the other lens with the other hand. True it doesn't work for larger lenses, but most lenses are ergonomically changeable with cameras. If you think it's hard, try large format lenses and lensboards.</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>When I pull out an OM mount lens out I can mount it in the dark. There are two buttons at the rear of each lens and from feel I can tell the lens lock from the DOF preview. With my thumb on the lock I index it to the left corner of the prism and twist clockwise. Simple.</p>

[matt_needham]

<p>I think it's just a matter of practice. I use numerous different lens mounts, and like others have said, it's a quick, one handed, no look operation.</p>

[Mark Keefer]

Perhaps they could come up with a sleeve and neodymium magnet lock and release. A simple slideing the lens into the

sleeve and the magnets on the lens and body would align and lock in place. Have a section with the magnet polarity reverse

so a simple twist would push the lens and body apart to release. This type of magnet is so powerful that two one inch

square magnets hold to each other with 600 pounds of strength, it would not take very much magnet to hold a lens from

falling off. This design would allow for quick changes and no complicated alignment. The magnets would auto align with

polarity. Of course all existing lenses would have to be replaced unless it were designed to have a retro fit mount on

existing lenses. Just a thought.

[paul_de_ley]

<blockquote>

<p>The old Pentax/Practica screw mount (M42) could do that...in fact, it was east to change lenses in a darkened theater, etc., because you just unscrewed one lens, put it aside, and stuck the back of the other lens on the hole in the front of the camera and turned it toward your left side 'till it stopped!</p>

<p> </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, the M42 mount and other screwmounts are very easy but the drawback I see with those is that you can't unscrew one lens & screw in another with lightning speed. Plus finely machined threads can be prone to significant wear from requent use (unless the the thread is made from exceptionally durable metals/materials) and if they catch any sand or debris then they may seize up, or no longer quite turn all the way through until the lens reaches its final position and provides proper infinity focus.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Original Canon FD mount. Press to fit, turn the ring to lock in place (FD mount was designed specifically to prevent any registration issue having to do with the wear that in theory occurs with conventional bayonet mounts (eg Leica M, Leica R, Nikon F, Minolta).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Although the FD mount is the one I've used most myself among non-AF systems, I wouldn't rate that as very ergonomic myself because the locking ring does sometimes seize up on the body, especially in the original version. Plus the locking ridges on plastic rear caps are exposed and too easily broken or chipped. Actually the "new FD" version comes closer to what I would call ergonomic, because the mount release button on the lens does provide a good tactile point for positioning.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Perhaps they could come up with a sleeve and neodymium magnet lock and release.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes I was kinda wondering about the feasibility and mechanical strength of some sort of sleeve-based system, although a magnetic lock wouldn't have occurred to me. Would the magnets be permanent or electronically switchable?</p>

<p>A system based on a sleeve (magnetic or with guides/locking tabs that project) fitting around the sides of the base of the lens might perhaps be combinable with existing mounts, in such a way as to allow backwards compatibility with existing bodies/lenses?</p>

[steven_f1]

<blockquote>

<p>I say "had" because in looking at the latest Pentax manual, it doesn't identify the raised white node on the lens barrel so I am not sure they've continued this.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes Pentax removed the raised white dot and now just uses a painted dot. However using glue or silicon rubber you can make your own raised dot or something that works for you.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Perhaps they could come up with a sleeve and neodymium magnet lock and release. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>A very good suggestion. If you do a search for neodynium you can find then in verious sizes, some very small. Put one on the lens and one on the body such that they pull toward each other. They would easily guide youwhen placing the lens on the camera. Once the two magnets make contact simply twist the lens until the machanical latch locks the lens in place. You only need small magnets and you could glue them onto existing lens and bodies</p>

<p>I wouldn't rely on magnets to hold the lens onto the body. A sudden bump and the lens could fall to the ground. If you want to use magnets to hold the lens onto the body you would need larger ones with a stronger field. Moving large strong magnets near the body could erase the firmware or pictures one the flash memory card or actually damage the electronics. Another concern I have is that iron dust (which does occur naturally in soil) could collect on the magnets and cause wear on the metal parts of the lens mount possibly causing light leaks.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A system based on a sleeve (magnetic or with guides/locking tabs that project) fitting around the sides of the base of the lens might perhaps be combinable with existing mounts, in such a way as to allow backwards compatibility with existing bodies/lenses?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Magnets would not resolve lens compatability issues. Many compatability issues are caused by:</p>

<ul>

<li>differences in electronics. If the lens electronics cannot talk to the camera electronics,The lens won't work. Many onlder lenses don't have any electronics. New lenses have electric apertures many older lenses have mechanical apertures. </li>

<li>For a lens to focus correctly it must be a certain distance between away from the sensor. for this reason micro 4/3 lenses cannot be used on 4/3 camera bodies. becauase the 4/3 sensor is too fare away. You can get adaptors to use 4/3 lenses on micro 4/3 cameras but no one makes adaptors that go from micro 4/3 to 4/3. The electronics in the lenses are somewhat compatable but the optics are not.</li>

</ul>

[ken_l2]

<p>Agfa fulfilled the OP's request with the Ambi Silette rangefinder back in 1957. </p>

<p>All one needs to do is place the lens against the mount, and turn the lens until a click is heard when the bayonet flanges engage; then a further short turn until a second click is heard to lock the lens in place. </p>