I Don't Have a Leica - waaaahhh!

fred_c1 · October 30, 2010

Mark, another point for the Zeiss Ikon: it has a regular swing-out back instead of a bottom plate that needs to be detached for film loading.

aplumpton · October 30, 2010

I really like the M4-P, the finder of which accomodates a 28mm wide angle, whereas the M2 goes down to only 35mm and the M3 to only 50mm without special goggles. I have owned M4-2, M4-P, M3, M6 cameras and the difference in quality (very very slight and not likely a factor for most users who shoot less than three or four hundred 36 exposure rolls per year) is not a real concern. For me, the 28mm VF frame is essential.

"Sure, it's made in Canada but....." Nonsense, if you had visited the Midland factory and the site of many modern Leica M lens designs as well, you might not be blind.

koray_p · October 31, 2010

<blockquote><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=6156130">Deirdre Saoirse Moen</a> , Oct 30, 2010; 05:45 p.m.

I want to buy a rangefinder: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7320285/" target="_blank">http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7320285/</a>

</blockquote>

OK, I saw this hilarious thing before! But what is more hilarious is that it is repeated once again, right here! :-D

K.

markdeneen · October 31, 2010

The cartoon is just amazing! Life imitates art, I guess? I nearly spat my coffee out my nose.

aplumpton · October 31, 2010

Koray, I think Mr. Jag would be welcome in this OP, but maybe not Mr. K (the other one, in Japan). References to "it's traditional and not to be questioned". The last sentence from the Leica RF expert is good (something like "I'm going to checkout the new Fuji digital RF"). Good satire. The part 2 is on the same site (one of the boxes below) and also a good spoof on Leicamania.

robert_hooper1 · October 31, 2010

Those cartoon videos are great. There are actually three on that site. Two look as though they are the same video, but they are not. I can't stop laughing about the salesmen's incredulity at his potential customer's list of demands to consummate the sale..

deirdre_saoirse_moen · November 1, 2010

I just figured I'd speed up the discussion a little.

I want an M9, but things have happened that make it seem impractical this month, so I may pick up something I want less. Or something.

debusti_paolo · November 1, 2010

try a bronica rf645 with standard lens and flash

jeff_guthrie · November 1, 2010

It wasn't that long ago that I didn't have a Leica either. Through careful shopping, trading up, and otherwise wheeling and

dealing, I now have several. My favorite is the M4, but for convenience' sake I usually carry an M6ttl. I love the smooth

action of the camera, and the silky focus of my 50mm DR Summicron. I chose the M4 over the M2/3 cameras for it's

easier film loading and faster rewind. With a 35mm Summaron mounted to it I can carry the M4 in my coat pocket.

A Leica will not take better pictures than a Canon 7 or other camera using the same lens, but few others can match it's

simply wonderful smoothness. I have all kinds of rangefinder cameras, and I rotate through my shooters each week. Use

your Canon 7 for a few hours before you handle a Leica M, you won't be able to put the M down.

michael_dimarzio · November 1, 2010

Mark, you want an MP, you just don't know it yet :).

Seriously, don't discount anything made in Canada. You'd miss the 75/1,4 Lux among many other great things, like maple syrup and fries with some kind of sauce that's not ketchup.

zapata_espinoza · November 1, 2010

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7508627/

and

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7518347/

aplumpton · November 1, 2010

Michael, the latter is known here as "Poutine", french fries with curd cheese and brown (meat type) sauce. But if you transfer any accidentally to your MP or M(other), it won't be appreciated.

Poutine was developed in or near Drummondville, Quebec in the early 1950s, about the time the Midland, Ontario plant was set up by E.Leitz III, but we owe the origins of maple syrup to our indigenous citizens.

robert_hooper1 · November 1, 2010

Canadian made Leica equipment is not uncommon in Honolulu, but <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine">Pouitine</a> has not yet arrived in Hawaii, as far as I know. However, I think it would fit right in on the artery clogging menu of the many 'Plate Lunch" fast food establishments here.

Throwing another Leica into the mix? Personally, I do feel the Leica M4 is worthy of comparison to the M3 and M2. Perhaps the Last Leica M body, with the exception of the latest MP, to share the same build quality, in my opinion.

However, when I got my first M4, I hated the the thin, flimsy, rectangular shaped self timer and frame selector levers and eventually had them changed to the M3 style by <a href="http://www.sherrykrauter.com/">Sherry Krauter</a>. I thought about changing the film advance lever too, but decided I actually liked it. If you do this conversion, ask that the removed parts be returned to you. They are valuable. I never asked for my parts back and then was shocked to see what DAG was selling those Leica M4 levers for; almost what I paid for the conversion.

I eventually acquired a second Leica M4 from a later production date and I swear the rectangular levers are not as flimsy as those that came with my first Leica M4. However, since I don't have the old parts from my first Leica M4, I cant make a comparison of thickness. One thing I can say with confidence is that the plastic insert of the frame selector lever has never popped out on the later production M4. It would pop off so often from my first Leica M4 that, I eventually lost it, further encouraging me to change the levers to Leica M3 type.

michael_dimarzio · November 1, 2010

Arthur, that is pretty funny. I actually had that once, I worked for Nortel and went to work in a lab in Ottawa. It was served by a really funny Newfie gal that couldn't stop laughing. I had to see what all of my Kay Becker workmates were missing in Latin America.

Your history lesson had me imagining an interactive Poutine Museum next to a Dinosaur Park, "Back in the 50s during the ketchup embargo, Mssr. Papa Batata had a solution...".

A couple of guys like me feel that the Mandler lenses define the look we want from an M system. A 21/1,4 ASPH is sexy as hell, but give me 3 or 4 Mandler lenses for the same price and I'd be very happy. On an MP of course. But maybe a 3 lugged M5 would be ok to.

red_buckner · November 1, 2010

Get a Leica IIIf. It will use your screw-mount lenses and, because it has an adjustable diopter, you can use it without glasses. The IIIf was sold in great number and there are a lot of them still around. That keeps the prices down. I can't say it has a big bright finder. It often is found with a 50mm Elmar lens on it. These cameras were always made in Germany to high standards. They were never compromised or plasticized. You would love one; but if not, you can sell it in a year or two for a profit. But you'd find it hard to sell: it's a bewitching little thing, very compact, very quiet, and marvelously precise.

red_buckner · November 1, 2010

P.S.

Eugene Smith and Henri C-B had a lot to do with the Leica mystique. Both used the IIIf. Maybe they went to the M3 later, but they won fame with the IIIf. Remember that when you are holding the IIIf; it'll be like holding the rifle of Annie Oakley. Or comb of Elvis.

aplumpton · November 1, 2010

"These cameras were always made in Germany to high standards"

Red, I share your love of the IIIf, but I have to disappoint you a bit by saying that some IIIfs were made in the Canada factory (they were rarely labelled as being assembled in Canada at that time, but the 15th edition of the Leica Manual (Morgan, Vestal, Broeckner) mentions that by 1959 (6 years before the last III series), the Canadian factory had produced its 20,000 th camera.

markdeneen · November 1, 2010

Or comb of Elvis.

</blockquote>

Now THAT is seriously funny. Ok, well now that the IIIf is in the game I think every single Leica model ever made is now the "recommended one to own." Why would I expect anything else? :-)

So far, for what I do, I am liking the idea of the M2 or the M4P. I think the challenge will be finding a really good example, not getting a beater. I think it will be a camera I'll keep for a long time, so I might as well get a really nice one. Still investigating though.

red_buckner · November 1, 2010

Arthur, thanks for catching the slip. You've saved me from making an ass of myself the next time I'm around some Leica mavens. Anyway, why did Leica build a plant in Canada? Labor costs? Tariff savings? I mean, there was room in Germany for another factory.

deirdre_saoirse_moen · November 1, 2010

For what it's worth, I just bought my first Leica yesterday finally. I decided about a month ago that was the way I was going to go, went to the Leica Akademie, and tried out an M9 for a day. (I haven't posted that thread here, but I did post it on several other forums; if others might find it useful, I can post it here, too.)

I may eventually get a film one as well (probably an M6 or later, most likely a Ti M6 TTL), but for now I'm going to make do with an M8. What I really wanted was an M9, but couldn't justify it just yet.

robert_hooper1 · November 2, 2010

Red,

Anyway, why did Leica build a plant in Canada? Labor costs? Tariff savings? I mean, there was roomin Germany for another factory.

</blockquote>

Leica acting in perhaps a paranoid fashion, decided to build a facility in North America because of perceived political instability in Europe at the time, (cold war). They didn't want to see a repeat of the difficulties they had endured during WWII. Also, at that time, North, Central, and South America accounted for over half of Leica camera sales. Having a factory located in North America made some economic sense. Canada gave Leica economic incentives that the US was unable to match, thus the choice of Canada. Herr Leitz apparently had relatives in Midland and so opted to build the new facility there.

pensacolaphoto · November 3, 2010

Look for a bargain priced M body on the rangefinder forum. Here and there, you can find good user's M bodies for $500-$600.

scott_paris4 · November 5, 2010

OK, let's make this simple. You say you don't need a meter, so the M7 (auto-exposure) and M6 (TTl meter) are eliminated.

If you want a viewfinder for 50mm lenses, then you have no choice: you need an M3.

If you want a viewfinder for 35mm lenses, then you want an M2 (classic) or an M4 (mechanically similar but with convenient rewind crank, and slightly easier loading).

The M4-2 and M4-P are fine cameras, much like the M4, but are slightly (and I do mean SLIGHTLY) less mechanically refined than the earlier versions. You'll notice the difference, but it won't ever have an effect on your pictures.

The Zeiss Ikon is a better camera in every objective way than the early Leicas, EXCEPT in mechanical feel. It has a TTL meter, a hinged back with a film ID window, and a really bright viewfinder, BUT it can't compete in mechanical refinement. It's shutter sound is harsh, it's film wind doesn't feel as nice, etc, etc. You can buy it new, with a warranty, for close to the same as a used Leica.

Finally, you'll have to try each of them with your own hands to make a decision.

As for a normal lens, the prime choice is a Summicron. The older, silver, so-called "rigid" ones are fine, but often have coating damage, fog or scratches. Any of the later black ones should be fine. Summiluxes, the f1.4 50s, are fine lenses, but overkill for street photography, and much more expensive. The Zeiss Planar f2 is every bit as good as the Summicrons, but doesn't feel as nice because it doesn't have a useful focusing knob thingy.

Whatever. You can't really make a mistake with any of these.

scott_paris4 · November 5, 2010