"Old timey" 120 film recommendations

[dave_gesell]

<p>I'm soon to the proud (I hope) owner of a Vermeer pinhole camera, and I'd like to try some low to medium speed films that have an old fashioned look. I know about Adox CHS and Efkes R series. My understanding is that these are both the same 1950's emulsion, but I've seen more complaints about Efke, mostly about excessive curl and delicate emulsions. I'm curious to try Acros 100 as I've seen it described as being similar to Agfapan, especially when souped in Rodinal. I'm thinking about ordering some Adox 50 and 100, and some Acros 100. Any other thoughts? If recommendations would be developer dependent, my preferred developers are HC-110 and Rodinal.</p>

<p>Thanks. </p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Acros is a modern emulsion and it is excellent........I'd use the Rodinol in this example.....</p>

[ric_johnson1]

<p>To see more information then you thought possible concerning pinhole photography and Acros film be sure to checkout www.f295.org</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>With a pinhole lens, you are not going to need to worry much about "grain" and so on in medium format, so I'd try out Tri-X or such and see if the effect won't be "old timey" enough for you.</p>

<p>In any case, the more grain, the more old timey, so to speak.</p>

[sumo_kun]

<p>Well Acros won't be so old looking as some other films but for pinhole, where the exposure can run for minutes or longer, its a good choice for its reciprocity. Tri-X is a good and classic choice. I think most of the films from the European makers are old because they basically use old formulae so they would be a good place for experimentation. For all the films I would try and use Rodinal.</p>

[SCL]

<p>Take a look at some of Gene M's results with old cameras on this site....he usually discusses the film and developer he used as well as the films.</p>

[derek_kennedy]

<p>I kinda liked the look of Shanghai GP3 and even Ilford Pan F when I used them in oooold cameras and wanted a old timey look/feel to the image.</p>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>Acros 100 also looks good in HC110. I rate mine at E.I. 80 and develop for 5' in HC110 dilution B at 68ºF.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Depends on your concept of "ye olden dayes". Depending on the age of the photographer it might mean either of two very opposite extremes.</p>

<p>If you mean long tonal range and full shadow detail along with highlight detail and very fine grain that isn't noticeable until 6x enlargements, maybe something like Neopan 100 in a standard developer like D-76 1+1 is what you want. That's what most of my old family photos dating back to the early 20th century look like. T-Max 100 might work as well. Any film with good reciprocity characteristics might be the best choice for a pinhole camera if you want a more conventional tonal range that actually resembles older studio portraits and snapshots.</p>

<p>Heck, even Jesse James' final portrait (as a live subject) had very good tonal range, but was somewhat soft due to the relatively unsophisticated optics of the time. And rather than being vignetted (a fairly modern conceit), many photos of that era were lighter at the edges and corners rather than darker.</p>

<p>If you mean chalk and soot with salt and pepper grain (more a post-1950s conceit) that might mean scrounging up a roll of APX 400 and souping in Rodinal. This seems to be the current trend in retro-nostalgia. Not many of my old family snapshots actually look like this. But it does appear to be the current perception of what photos in ye olden dayes of yore looked like. Even my own b&w photos didn't begin to have this soot and chalk, salt and pepper look until the 1980s when I began pushing film.</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>It'd be slower and an older technology than the OP mentioned, but how about an ortho look? </p>

[dave_gesell]

<p>Thanks all for the responses.</p>

<p>Lex, I now realize the relativity of my question. I'm not a fan generally of soot and chalk, but it's a look that can work for some images. The photographers that most influenced the young me in the early 80's were Weston, White and Strand, so I lean in the good tonal range direction.</p>

<p>John, I'll take a look at some ortho films. Any experience with Rollei Ortho 25?</p>

[chris_waller]

<p>Acros performs well in Rodinal. My preference is to rate it at 50 ASA and dev at 1/50, 20 C for 8 minutes. If you want an 'old technology' tonality then I can do no better than to recommend Ilford FP4. Again, rate at 50 ASA and dev at 1/50, 20 C, 8 minutes.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>About a month ago, I shot some Orwo NP15 in an Ansco Sure Shot box camera, and some in my Kodak folder from 1914. I was struck by how closely the photos resemble some of my old family photos. I suspect the impression resulted more from the optics and format than the film, but I suppose the film contributed to the overall effect. </p>

[frank.schifano]

<p>The way I see it, you can pretty much eke out any kind of a look you want from just about any film. With a pinhole camera, I'm going to go with a couple of the earlier posters and recommend Acros because of its excellent reciprocity characteristics. With older style emulsions, you're going to have some nasty contrast problems with the long exposures you'll need for a pinhole camera. If you want the contrast, you can always bump it up when printing or in post with the photo editor of your choice. Soup it in anything you like (I prefer using D-76 myself) and it will work. </p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Here's one of my old timey photos from my No 1 Kodak Jr. and Orwo NP15. Developed in Hypercat, 1:5:100, 8:00, 70F, agitate 10 sec/min. </p><div></div>

[jpo3136b]

<p>Yes, I've used that Rollei Ortho 25. It was okay. It enlarged to 22X30 from 6X6 okay for me. I'm not finicky, though.</p>

<p>I can't say I've met a traditional black and white film I didn't like. </p>

[travis_bushue]

<p>As it's been pointed out, "old timey" is subject to many interpretations. I have been messing around with some film that give and 'older' look based on some that I have found in the Library of Congress archives.<br>

I have recently been using Efke 25 films both Pan (R25) and Ortho (PL 5x7). While I have not completely nailed the extended tones with the ortho film-developer combo's, the pan film does well in Rodinal 1+100 stand. To me -again interpretations vary- this combination is pretty good for representing all the zones with adequate tone and detail in each. Here's an <a href="../photo/11770850">example.</a></p>

 

[dave_gesell]

<p>Jay, thank you for posting that lovely portrait! Of course, for a truly vintage look Juliet should be wearing a taffeta skirt, high lace collared blouse, and an elaborate hat.</p>

<p>And be holding a parasol.</p>

<p>Is the warm tone strictly from the Hypercat, or was that added later? Either way, beautiful shot.</p>

<p>John, re: Rollei Ortho, I'm wondering if some some of the ortho characteristics couldn't be aped with a cyan or blue filter. As I think more about this, an ortho look is really the opposite of what I usually like, as I normally have an orange or red filter on when I shoot B&W. I do like my dramatic skies.</p>

<p>Travis. A beautiful and, if you don't mind my saying, Westonesque shot. I've never tried stand development, but it takes my less is more approach to agitation to it's logical conclusion. I'm just putting the finishing touches on my 2 room darkroom, (bathroom for loading and drying - kitchen for processing and washing). I'll soon be able to put my old skills and everything I'm learning here into practice.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the input. This is really a great forum with a great bunch of knowledgeable and helpful people.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Reminds me of my unsuccessful efforts trying to use an Agfa Isolette 6x6 folder to recreate a vintage look. Didn't work because I used the same films and developers I was comfortable with - Tri-X and HP5+ in ID-11 or HC-110. The photos didn't look any different from what I got with my Yashica and Rollei TLRs, other than softer edges with the Agfa. Even the contrast wasn't that much different, which surprised me because I'd polished the coatings off the Isolette lens hoping to make it more vulnerable to veiling flare.</p>

<p>I was able to get a little closer to a vintage look by rating HP5+ closer to EI 200, giving it less development and sticking with photos of places without any anachronistic references, such as our ornate family cemetery that dates back to the 1800s.</p>

<p>I should probably drag that Agfa out again and try it with one of the Euro films advertised as being similar to older emulsions - Rollei Retro or something similar. The other trick will be trimming the fiber contact sized prints to more closely resemble my older family snapshots. A carte-de-visite or cabinet style mount may help as well.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Dave,</p>

<p>Thanks for the compliment. Old cars and rickety porches were more common in my old family photos than high collars or parasols, but I know what you mean. The color comes from developing the print in Hypercat. </p>

<p>Lex,</p>

<p>Little 6x9 contact prints from my old Kodak are my current fascination. They really do add to the overall look!</p>

[spanky]

<P>I've never used a pin hole camera before, but I'm using Adox CHS 100 and 50 in my RZ67. Beautiful films both of them. BTW, Efke and Adox are the same films, just different names and packaging. These are very thin films, meaning the base the emulsion is on is thinner then other films. I'm no expert but from what I've heard and my own experience, this results in a film that is sharer with higher resolution. This is meaningless with a pinhole camera but just in case you decide to try them out with conventional cameras. As for Across 100, I use this in 135 (the re-branded Freestyle Legacy Pro film). Nice film but even if they made this in 120 I wouldn't give up my Adox 100 for it.</P>

[denniswms]

<p>I've used primarily the Across 100 since the demise of APX 100 and not one client has ever noticed. Granted I stuck with Rodinal for the negs, graded Oriental paper under a cold head in Dektol and Selenium. The same glass -both camera and enlarger- so all combined it reduces the impact any differences the film imparts on the final product. </p><div></div>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Marc,</p>

<p>Are you sure Legacy Pro is Acros? Fuji makes another ISO 100 B&W film- Neopan SS 100.<br>

<a href="http://fujifilm.jp/support/pdf/filmandcamera/datasheet/ff_neopanss135_001e.pdf">http://fujifilm.jp/support/pdf/filmandcamera/datasheet/ff_neopanss135_001e.pdf</a><br>

How do you know Legacy Pro isn't Neopan SS?</p>

[brian_quinn2]

<p>The development times match Acros.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Brian,</p>

<p>Thanks. Yes, the development data is identical for Acros and Legacy Pro. That's good to know!</p>

<p> </p>