Best 120 Film/Developer Combo for Fine Grain

[kram]

<p>I am going to do some studio still life work, black and white, 120 and I want to be able to make big prints, say 36x36".<br /><br />What's the best slow film and developer combo out there right now. I'll have plenty of light so slowness is not a problem.<br /><br />Most likely the final result will be scanned negs to archival inkjet prints.<br /><br />If you have a formula, I'd love to see a sample 100% crop or some such.<br>

I currently use Acros in Xtol 1:1. I like it but want to see if I'm missing something which might be better, like Kodak's Tech Pan.</p>

 

[mark f]

<p>Acros is a good bet. I use it with Rodinal or more recently Pyrocat semi-stand. I find that the negatives are a bit sharper than with xtol (my former favorite), but with a little more grain. It is a good trade off for me. Since you are scanning, less sharp grain may be a good thing, though.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>For scanning, TMX with ID-11/D-76 or other fine grain developer. I'm satisfied with TMX at EI 100 in Microphen from 35mm and 120, including for scanning, but Microphen will produce barely perceptible grain with TMX, while ID-11/D-76 stock solution will be virtually grain-free. For development in ID-11 I'll usually expose around EI 50-64, depending on light and subject contrast.</p>

[brucecahn]

<p>They make Tech Pan again? Your best bet is to get an 8x10 camera for that size print. Then you can use a film that will give you the best print, and not be concerned with grain. Often the best films are not so great for enlargement. I would use 8x10 Tri-X. If you go with a 6x6cm negative you will be making an enlargement around 15X. Other than maybe the discontinued Agfapan 25, I do not know of a film that will do it well. There is more involved than just grain. You will be stretching a small amount of information to fill a large page. You lose a whole lot doing that. Forget a rich beautiful print. You will just get a big one.</p>

[keith_tapscott]

<p>Major Black asked: "I am going to do some studio still life work, black and white, 120 and I want to be able to make big prints, say 36x36".</p>

<p>If you're going to scan negatives and make inkjet prints, then you might as well use a colour negative film like Fuji Reala or Kodak Ektar 100 and then convert the image to B&W in Photo-Shop. You will get finer-grained images that way.<br /> B&W films are designed to be enlarged or contacted on to photographic papers and grain is more evident with them when they are scanned.</p>

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[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>The finest grain you will get by the slowest films but if you like the grey scale is another issue.</p>

<p>Tech Pan film: Rollei ATP1.1 (Advanced Technical Pan, E.I. 32) but you need special developers for it.<br>

Further Orthopan : Efke 25<br>

Panchromatic: Pan F+ (Ilford E.I. 32 with Perceptol) or Rollei Pan 25.<br>

When using any fine grain developer with these films your grain will be neglectible but also less sharp: CG512, Perceptol, Microdol-X (just discontinued). All above films are available in 120 roll film.</p>

 

[jose_angel]

<p>I have never got satisfying results with Tech Pan and similar films. Of course fine grained negatives, but with a very low "pictorial quality" in comparison with ordinary slow or medium speed films, developed on straight XTOL or D76 (like the combo you´re currently using).</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Major Black my old friend I would suggest Rollei Retro 80s Write me for development details in Rodinal and Diafine. Plenty of fine grain and gray tones all in between dead black and fine white.</p>

<p>Larry</p>

[christer_almqvist2]

<p> </p>

<p >Robert said:</p>

<p > </p>

<p >..... the slowest films but if you like the grey scale is another issue.</p>

<p >......using any fine grain developer with these films ....... less sharp</p>

<p > </p>

<p >He nailed it!</p>

<p > </p>

 

[chris_waller]

<p>Like Mark, I favour Acros 100 in Rodinal. I rate Acros at 50 and dev in Rodinal 1/50, 20C, 8 minutes.</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>I agree with Bruce - large format is a better choice for large prints. As for film/developer, you're already using one of my favorites: Acros and XTOL. The only difference is that I dilute 1:2.</p>

[russ_kerlin]

<p>If you're using a fine grain grain film in a high accutance developer, like Acros in Rodinal, you don't need large format. While I've not enlarged to 36", I have done 16x20 with 120 Acros (6x7 format) in D-76 with great results. Grain is hardly noticeable, and they are very sharp. So, shouldn't be any issues to 36".</p>

[kram]

<p>Thanks for all the great info everyone. A lot to think about!<br>

I'm going to start with Ilford Pan F in Xtol, maybe 1:2.<br>

Robert Acros is my favorire film and I will try Xtol 1:2, thanks for the suggestion.<br>

Bruce, I would *love* to shoot some 8x10 tri-X. I haven't in twenty years but I remember it in all it's glory. Can't afford the camera though!<br>

Keith, never heard that color neg film is generally sharper than most black and white film. Something to think about.<br>

I'll post some results in a few weeks and perhaps I may continue my quest.<br>

Thanks again for your wisdom!</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Major Black: I think Acros in Xtol is an excellent combination. I too use Rodinal and HC-110, but that's just because I don't like mixing powdered developers<g>. You should easily be able to get 36" prints pretty easy. The biggest factor, I have yet to see discussed, is getting a good scan. I do 20" prints from Hasselblad, Acros in Rodinal, scanned with an Epson 4990, and they look great. I would have drum scans made, but alternatively use a Coolscan 8000/9000.</p>

[kram]

<p>Michael, I have an Epson 4990 too! I'm shooting with a Rolleiflex SL-66 (my favorite camera). I may go the drum scan route, have to see how the 4990 does.</p>

[stb]

<p>Well, Acros in Rodinal will have more grain than Acros in, say, X-Tol.</p>

<p>I found that Rollei Retro 80S, even in Rodinal, has less grain than either Acros or TMax 100 in HC-110.</p>

 

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>"If you're using a fine grain grain film in a high accutance developer, like Acros in Rodinal, you don't need large format. While I've not enlarged to 36", I have done 16x20 with 120 Acros (6x7 format) in D-76 with great results. Grain is hardly noticeable, and they are very sharp. So, shouldn't be any issues to 36"</p>

<p>Russ - your extrapolation is unreasonable. There's a huge difference going for 16x20 to 36x36. The 36x36 is 4x the area of the 16x20. You're advocating going from a 9x enlargement factor to a 16x enlargement. You will see grain, and tonality will suffer.</p>

[russ_kerlin]

<p>Robert,<br>

I don't think this is unreasonable at all! While I admit that I have not enlarged to this size, I am incredibly amazed at the resilience of Acros, and if you take extra care with development and the scanning, I think the results will be more than acceptable with medium format. Would large format be better? Absolutely. Will you be able to notice the grain? Probably. But, with my 16x20 prints, I have to get very close to even see the grain, and this was with D-76 at 1:1, which is not exactly a fine grain combination. So, I stand by what I said.</p>

 

[willscarlett]

<p>Based off what I've worked with, I would vote for 120 Acros in Rodinal. I've printed this in the darkroom up to 11x14 and it looks amazing. There is hardly any grain whatsoever. I use a 1:50 dilution and the time off the MDC, which is 13.5 min, seems to be a bit much, but just use a lower contrast filter or cut back on some time.</p>

<p>I've also made beautiful 16x20 prints from 35mm Rollei Pan 25, developed in D-76. I can't speak for going up to 36x36, but I doubt you'd need large format for it. Not to say that it would hurt, but with a nice 120 film and precise development, you'll get good results. If you want to go for even less grain, then try Rollei Pan 25 or Rollei ATP 1.1. ATP 1.1 is the replacement for Kodak Tech Pan, but the Pan 25 might be a bit easier to work with. Both of those films are also made in 120.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I know the Major and he shoots with Rolleiflex cameras.</p>

[conrad_hoffman]

<p>IMO, 120 is a perfectly fine choice even for very large prints. I assume (silly me) that the viewing distance will be suitable for the size print and that people won't be holding these 36" squares in their laps. Given that, use the film that gives you the tonal quality you like. I'm more of a fan of developers like FX-2 and Rodinal, rather than fine grain developers. Just don't overdevelop the stuff and the grain should be fine (pun intended).</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Groan but smiling at that fine pun.</p>