Does anyone else miss a pop up flash on the 5Dmk2?

[philipward]

<p>I rarely use it,even at times forget its there.Casts shadows if I do not remove my lens hoods.Why don,t you buy a small PS for your holiday snaps,it,s probebly lighter and cheaper than a external flash and takes up no space in your bag or pocket.</p>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>Absolutely not. In the contrary, it is irritating me. I never used, but tried, and good only for a small DSLR+ a short lens for close family pictures. Even for family shoots I using on the Nikon D40 a SB-400 (C$130.00 ) flash, witch has a tilting head, and as an emergency flash I using this little devil on the D300 and the D700. It is mach powerful then the stupid pop-up flash on the so called consumer bodies. The D700 not a consumer body and would be mach stronger if don't have the pop-up flash on it. IMHO.</p>

[myworkshop]

<p>I wish my 5D had one. I was quite happy to see that the Nikon D700, (Nikon's 5DmkII competitor), had one when I bought it. I was glad that I would always have the option of using it if I wanted to. Just yesterday I brought the family to the Children's museum. Brought the D700 and a 50mm because it had the pop-up flash. Didn't want to lug the much larger clip-on flash around with the family in tow. For most of the pictures I just used natural light below f/2.0, but they had super hero statues there this time. I had to jack up the aperture to get a good depth of field. Popped up the flash and there was no problem. I couldn't have gotten the shots without that built in flash. So I find them quite handy at times.<br>

That being said. The flash is going to be the week link in an otherwise very sturdy camera. Vulnerable to damage because it is a plastic moving part.</p><div></div>

[hal_b]

<p>My old Canon Elan 7 has one, and has great viewfinder coverage, and the flash doesn't pop up automatically. You have to reach up and lift the flash by hand. In my mind, this is an acceptable compromise. The excuse that the flash would diminish the pentaprism is complete bunk. This is a simple matter and has been solved years ago. The excuse that it's irritating when it pops up unwanted is also bunk, as that has been solved, too. Even on cameras that automatically popup the flash, that ONLY happens in "AUTO" mode, when it is expected. Even in P mode, the flashes don't pop up on their own.</p>

<p>The plain and simple fact is that it is a cheap implementation, and it is occasionally convenient, even if in the slightest degree and only in an emergency. Why is this the one entry-level feature that has been universally decided is completely unwelcome and should therefore be removed from all professional cameras? I find this a great nuisance, and is one of the reasons I prefer a top-notch "prosumer" camera and am content not to waste money on an "upgrade". If they are removing features on top-level cameras, they can keep 'em.</p>

<p>It just doesn't make any sense NOT to have the flash, as a convenience. What if, after hearing myriad complaints about high-ISO noise, Canon decided not to include high-ISO's in professional cameras because they make your pictures "look bad"? Obviously, this would be nuts. Instead, they have worked to improve the quality of the high-ISOs so that they CAN include them on pro cameras. In fact, it's the pro cameras that have the BEST quality with high ISOs.</p>

<p>What they should be doing instead of dropping the on-camera flash because it "looks bad", is designing improved implementation of it. That tiny little flash should be made slimmer, less obtrusive, and should TILT and SWIVEL as well, so that you can use it in a pinch, and even bounce it off available surfaces. Also, they should work at putting a more powerful bulb in there and adding power. If you're going to spend $3000+ on a camera, it should include an upgraded version of this $5 feature, rather than just drop the feature altogether. I mean, seriously, any $5 one-time use Kodak 27-exp camera has a built-in flash. It's not like it adds to the cost. We're talking about the premium-level cameras here.</p>

<p>I call "BS" to all the blinded engineering types who claim this is an insurmountable technical obstacle. The on-camera flash can be made smaller, brighter, more convenient, weather-sealed, and strong without intruding on the full-size viewfinder.</p>

[rocco1]

<p>When I bought my first 10D, I tried the pop-up flash. About once. Thought it was a bad idea, and got a 550EX. When I upgraded to a 20D, I had another look at the pop-up flash. Still a bad idea - I added the 580EX. Reading this post made me realize that I have never taken a look at my 1D Mk3 if it has a pop-up flash or not! I don't think it has one.. Would not bother to go take a look in any case. The 580EXII does the job without me wanting something as small and silly as that.</p>

[scott_murphy_photography]

<p>My D-700 has one and it does come in handy as a casual photo fill flash but I would never use it for anything serious, it just does not have the power. Normally though, I still use my trusty "old Faithful", my Sunpak 544 "potato masher" flash which can both swivel and tilt.</p>

[tdigi]

<p>If you use your 5d for travel or any non-pro use a 270 is really nice to have. I took some shots to show just how small it is. Now its not perfect but its pretty good and much better then a pop up.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[tdigi]

<p>Front view</p><div></div>

[mattb1]

<p>Yes, I miss it. Not as much as I thought, but I do miss it. I don't always have an external flash with me and on some sunny day shots only a little fill is needed for casual photos. Of course they are too small to do a lot, but they do come in handy in some situations. I've only had a shadow cast a couple of times, but that could happen more with the larger L zooms.</p>

[ben_goren]

<p>I simply don’t do snapshots, or other kinds of “have a camera handy and take

pictures if anything interesting happens” photography. When I have a camera in hand,

it’s for a purpose. Granted, sometimes it might be vague, in the sense of “head out to

the Superstition Mountains and see if there’s anything worth photographing,” but

even then the idea is to go there with the intention of coming away with at least one or two good

exposures that I can work with later.</p>

 

<p>And, as such, I find a popup flash worse than useless. There’s never a situation where I

would find the results from one acceptable; I simply wouldn’t waste my time breaking out the

camera for the shot. So why add all the extra complexity, reduce the viewfinder size, have

something that gets in the way of lens movements, and all the rest, if there’s just no reason

I’d ever use it at all?</p>

 

<p>I <em>do</em> use flash plenty. Studio lights are wonderful, and the 580EXII is simply amazing.

But the whole idea of a small under-powered light right on the lens axis is…ugh.</p>

 

<p>“It’s all about the light,” so why inflict your art with really bad light?</p>

 

<p>(Again, it should be really obvious by now that I don’t shoot pictures of kids I don’t have to fill a scrapbook so I can pull them out a couple decades later to embarrass them. And popup flash is fine for that sort of thing — but so are P&S cameras, so why break out the heavy artillery?)</p>

 

<p>Cheers,</p>

 

<p>b&</p>

[KenPapai]

<p>OK, when I get my 7D I am going to soon (within the week) post a picture taken with it using its popup flash and the the 16-35 lens. I am not holding out hope for much of anything usable. I can only imagine how horrible a popup flash would be with the same lens on a 5D were such an abomination even present on a FF DSLR.</p>

 

[myworkshop]

<p>A couple of people mentioned a shadow cast from the lens hood. I was curious if my D700 with pop-up flash would make such a shadow on my 80-200mm with lens hood installed. These two pictures are with flash and without at 80mm and 3m distance.</p><div></div>

[myworkshop]

<p>and without flash.</p>

[myworkshop]

<p>without flash.</p><div></div>

[myworkshop]

<p>this is the camera used.</p><div></div>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>I agree hundred percent to Ben Goren.<br>

" I simply don’t do snapshots, or other kinds of “have . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — but so are P&S cameras, so why break out the heavy artillery?) "<br>

Popup flash is for snap shots and such you don't need a 4000-5000 dollar camera, you are mach better with a 500 dollar P&S camera. It is ridiculous using a 80-200/2.8 lens with a popup flesh for interior photography, rather then a proper wide angle lens. Popup flash a gimmick for the amateur crowds, specially the beginner amateur crowds, with plenty of money. The smallest separate flash-light is 10 time better then a popup flash. Shame on Nikon to add something for a pro body, they don't needed, and just a chance to get more moving part to break.</p>

[myworkshop]

<p>Bela, the pictures were to show that a pop up flash won't always produce a shadow. Lighten up.</p>

[KenPapai]

<p>The question is concerning a 7D and 5D2, not Nikon. (or, does Nikon use the exact same popup as the 7D? I'd bet $1M it doesn't)</p>

[myworkshop]

<blockquote>

<p>Pop-up flashes can't see around lenses -- they cast horrible shadows from the lens.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Not always Ken. Does the 7D cast a shadow with a 70-200mm +hood installed? I don't have one so can't check.</p>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>Hi Pete. You right in this case, but how many time you using an 80 mm lens in close place, like any room. I have a living room big like a ball-room and not even a 50 mm vill suffice. Your demonstration is irreverent in close interior shoots, like all, or most family shoots is inside some room. The argument applicable for all popup flash, including all models. And most pros or semi pro or serious amateurs would never use a popup flash. But! I used for my big room a smallest nikon SB-400, tiltable head and fit in my smallest packet with very good results. And tried the popup with very bed results. My apology if I insulted somebody with my statement. But that's the fact. Like Ben Goren said. I had this argument with one of my semi pro friend, and when I shown my SB-400 small flesh, and given to her to use it, she immediately rushed to bay one, and changed her opinion about it.</p>

[myworkshop]

<p>Bela, hope this helps.</p>

<ul>

<li>I find pop-up flashes to be very useful if I <em><strong>don't have a clip-on flash with me</strong></em>. (Even if a speedlite would produce better results).</li>

<li>Not all pop-up flashes will produce a <em><strong>shadow</strong></em> on a LONG lens like the 80-200mm with hood attached. (The last 3 photos were for <em><strong>DEMONSTRATION</strong></em> purposes only in response to Ken Papai's original post.)</li>

</ul>

[tudor_apmadoc]

<p>I don't miss a pop up flash.</p>

<p>I've always found them to be too weak to do what I need, in some cases they couldn't even do an adequate fill flash in bright sunshine.</p>

<p>I've been using a 580EX for 4 years now and love it. I'm constantly amazed how much power it has and just how much I can light up.</p>

<p>Here's an example of lighting up a part of Caesars Palace in Vegas - and yes, what you see was totally the 580ex light : http://photos.apmadoc.net/USA/Las%20Vegas/slides/IMG_5509.html</p>

<p>Tudor ApMadoc<br>

http://photos.apmadoc.net</p>

[chas_matthews]

<p>No I don't miss it! Not having a pop-up flash was one of the PLUS features that I liked about the 5dii.<br>

Reasons:<br>

- rid of extra weight I don't want to carry around,<br>

- rid of flimsy piece of plastic that can get broken,<br>

- can't accidentally hit pop-up button and have it come up when I don't want it,<br>

- one less place for water to get inside the body,<br>

- probably reduced cost of body,<br>

- longer battery life (when I do choose to use a flash),<br>

- shorter flash recycling time (when I do choose to use a flash),<br>

- etc..</p>

[chas_matthews]

<p>No I don't miss it! Not having a pop-up flash was one of the PLUS features that I liked about the 5dii.<br>

Reasons:<br>

- rid of extra weight I don't want to carry around,<br>

- rid of flimsy piece of plastic that can get broken,<br>

- can't accidentally hit pop-up button and have it come up when I don't want it,<br>

- one less place for water to get inside the body,<br>

- probably reduced cost of body,<br>

- longer battery life (when I do choose to use a flash),<br>

- shorter flash recycling time (when I do choose to use a flash),<br>

- etc..</p>

[xavier_henri]

<p>I had it on my EOS 33 and my EOS 20D and barely used it...<br>

The Hulk example above is one of the rare occasions where it could be useful.<br>

For fill flash in bright sunshine, it just isn't powerful enough; it can give you a feeble catchlight in the eyes though.<br>

For portraits or group shots in low light, it's just catastrophic. You would need at least bouncing on the ceiling. See <a href="http://www.fovegraphy.com/FlashTipsE.php">those tips</a>.<br>

@Pete Lilley, the shadow happens with wide angle shots not with a tele lens.</p>