Will Zone lll always be Zlll?

[jim_gardner4]

<p>I am drawing conclusions from everything said so far. It seems to me that there are so many variables that chasing that 1/3 stop in film speed is next to impossible. My variables that can not be changed are; 3 leaf shutter lenses that I use mainly for medium format, 1 leaf shutter lens that I use for large format and a few bodies and many lenses for 35mm. Added to this is the fact that I cant get across in 5x4 so I use Delta 100 plus the fact that I may use RC or FB paper. I really think my best choice would be to rate film at 80iso, develop Across for recommended 10 minutes and the Delta for 10 mins although the recommended time is 11 minutes. I find Delta to be more contrasty and have often found highlights difficult to hold on the paper.</p>

[john_a5]

<p>If you find Delta a bit contrasty, then you should probably decrease the iso and decrease the development time or increase the dilution. The iso might even be held as it is for the first part of the adjustment, as it will be the more dense areas that will be affected first by decreased development times first since the limited silver in the shadows develops out pretty quickly in any case. Since your development times are so long, you could almost cut them in half before there would be any issue with uneven development. You might also check your agitation as cutting it as well will cut contrast as it is the dense areas that burn through the developer in contact quickly, thus less agitation, less development=less contrast.</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>" . . . What I dont understand is why I would need to know how much difference there is between a grey card and a bright light wall for example. Cant I spot meter it and get a Zone v reading and then close down 2 stops to get a zone lll exposure reading?"</p>

<p>In most situations, yes. Using the gray card or incident light reading <em>as a control</em> can help you identify those situations where a simple two stop shift would not apply. Extremely reflective surfaces, like water or mirrors or transparent glass for example, would be situations where a control would be helpful.</p>

<p>Another situation where a control is useful is with an unevenly lit item. If you have a long, graduated penumbra in there, then picking the spot to meter could be easy to flub. A complex, highly textured surface, like a broken and craggy rock wall might be another.</p>

<p>Many situations the difference will not be significant. But, <em>for any subject</em>, not just typical ones, that control step can be an important part of spotting problems or solving for a tonal shift accurately.</p>

<p>Using the control step is a check against where the photographer pointed that spot meter. In practice, it's easy for us to get the hang of where we want to point that thing and why. In written descriptions of tonal shift procedures, sometimes that targeting is not described very clearly. It might be omitted altogether.</p>

<p>I mentioned the control step because sometimes it is omitted in written directions. In <em>The Negative</em>, Adams included it in some of his examples, but omitted it in others.</p>

<p>I sympathize with the exasperation. I like to do tonal shifts a lot; but, I know I do not pursue them with the same kind of uptightness I see outlined in some of the Zone System style of photo books. I find I like knowing what the meter tells me, figuring up my shift, and understanding what this implies about later steps in the process; yet, I can't see myself fussing over a third of a stop. </p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>Using the control step before you start computing your tonal shift will help to cultivate some experience in identifying good targets for spot metering. </p>

<p>Human skin, asphalt roads, Adams' egg, most fabrics, most vegetation and bark are all good targets. Anything shiny, glossy, liquid, transparent, particularly in hard light: poorer targets.</p>

<p>How does that subject <em>you</em> commonly encounter differ from that 18% gray card? With some experience, you will come to know: this is close to that value; that other item is far. </p>

<p>WIth some practice, spot metering technique for the zone system will cycle back on itself, and start to show ideas like why did CWA come up with such a quirky answer, and so on. It will release you to read a CWA TTL and take a quick spot of interest and then figure up your shift. The control stage will contribute in the long run to metering. </p>

[sg_adams]

<p>Mr Jim, leaf shutter, especially larger ones, are rarely consistent. You can nail them down using a shutter tester. I found some of mine shoot fast at the slow speeds, and then as much as a full stop to even two stops slow at the fast speeds, and everything in between. Some are quite accurate also, but there is always some imperfection. <br>

Basically after doing all my own film testing and such I wound my way back to the simple idea of exposing for the shadows and developing for the highlights. But I got a heck of a lot out of my work, and devoting some time to learning the methodology of the Zone System. I am certainly not a Zone System fanatic, but it taught me to meter more carefully, with intent, and think about where things would fall on the scale. I now think much more in terms of zones, stops, 1/3 stops etc... I think in values, shadows, highlights, middle tones and local contrast, all in one fast sweeping thought. It tied a lot of loose ends together for me. Which is to say I have a lot more understanding of the media I use, the process I apply, and the mistakes I make. <br>

I also switched from D-76, similar to ID-11, to HC110, and started metering Acros and FP4 for ISO 64 and working to get my high values in control. So far so good. I can now get Acros to look like I want it and expect it to most often. But it is a modern grain structure film that isn't exactly forgiving and sensitive to exposure and development process. </p>

[jim_gardner4]

<p>Ok I hope I am getting there now as I did what I hope is my last test with Across 100 today. I set up a range of subjects in a scence and metered about 6 different values ranging over a 6 stop range. I chose the darkest area I wanted texture and placed that on Zone lll which meant the darkest area in the scene fell on Zone ll1/2 and the brightest area that I wanted to "use" fell on zone Vlll1/2.<br>

I developed the film for 10 minutes in ID11 and printed the negs. The negs exposed using a meter reading of 100 iso and 80iso printed well and texture can be seen in value 111 too V111 1/2 areas.<br>

I may give a little longer development next time but all in all I think the results are good.<br>

Reading all the above posts I can see that a lot of people use lots of different methods but it does seem that in the end it comes down to intuition a lot of the time.</p>