What are the best darkslides for film flatness

[andrew_keam]

Just wondering what are the best darkslides to use for film flatness? I have been using some older ones and I

don't think they are quite cutting it.. I have heard that the Linhof ones are the best but super expensive and

discontinued... The Toyo are a good option and not so much and also I have heard about a Fuji holder that holds

six at a time ( or was it eight ).. Also, does Sinar make holders? I also thought I heard about them... The

general consensus on both the Fuji and Kodak Readymade film holders is that they don't hold the film as flat....

Any thoughts? Thanks Andrew

[sharon_shimada]

A good clean functioning Grafmatic holder with 6 flat septums seems to be the best I've ever used for 4x5 film...but if the septa are not

flat, the unit won't work properly.

 

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/

[bob_salomon]

Darkslides don't hold film. Film holders do.

[leicaglow]

Yeah, the dark slide isn't even in place when the exposure is made. There are quite a few out there, like Fidelity on the basic end, to Sinar on the higher end.

[erie_patsellis]

Of course, in most parts of the world, a film holder is called a double darkslide... Sinar makes an adhesive based on, has post it type adhesive, next down would be toyo holders, and then the rest. How much flatness do you really need?

[brian berry]

Hello Andrew, I vote with Sharon. I tested this a lot when I was doing lots of Macro work on 4x5 as a university staff photographer. The Grafmatic septums let the film expand and contract a little without buckling, I believe. The Linhof holders with the pressure plates are excellent but yes, they are really expensive. Bulky too. Conventional Riteway and Fidelity holders are OK at ordinary camera distances but suffer a little when you are in close. The wooden Graphic and similar holders from the forties were fine but with time, they warped, and you might find one in 10 that is good now. The ones to avoid at all costs are the single sheet European types from the 40's and before--they wave like crazy. My two cents...

[erie_patsellis]

To expand my question, what are you shooting that you feel you require absolute film flatness?

 

If Astrophotography or extreme macro work, Toyo and Linhof make vacuum holders (as well as a few japanese companies specifically for astro work and typically a little less expensvie), your film will remain absolutely flat, every time. A warning though, be sitting down when you price them. I priced a Toyo holder with DC pump and it came to just a little under $2500. A quick google search will yield some pages with DIY approaches to making your own.

 

For typical LF landscape and general photography, film flatness tends not to be a problem at the typical apertures used in LF (11-32+), depth of focus (not to be confused with depth of field) is far more than the +- .007" tolerance in film holders at 8X the focal length of a lens.

[ellis_vener_photography]

several years ago I did aseries of tests wit ha variety of 4x5 film holders , several of the traditional types:

Fidelity, Elite and Toyo double sided holders; and also Fuji QuickLoad, Kodak Readyload, and Fuji Quickload and

Kodak Readyload packets in a Polaroid 545i holder.

 

I shot a lot of carefully aligned set ups of brick walls and focus targets on various ISo 100 film types.

Everythign was looked at wit hboth a 4x Rodenstock and a 6x Schneider loupe.

 

The Fuji QuickLoad system was the best at f/5.8 to f/8 (the lens was a 210mm f/5.6 Nikkor-W). At f/11 the Fuji

was only slightly better, but from f/16 to f/32 it was pretty much a toss up.

 

Much more important was insuring that the groundglass in your camera to focus with is very carefully aligned

with the standard film plane distance.

 

When either printing or scanning you also have to make sure that the film is held perfectly flat.

[bob_salomon]

" The Linhof holders with the pressure plates are excellent but yes, they are really expensive. Bulky too"

 

That isn't a pressure plate - what would it push the film against?

 

These were the Linhof glass plate/sheet film holders and the moving plate compensated for the difference in thickness

between a glass plate and a sheet of film. And that is also why the holders were so thick - glass plates are thick.

 

Linhof sheet film holders were the same thickness as other manufacturers sheet film holders over the past 50 years.

Both types of Linhof holders have been discontinued for many years. Both were available with or without a numbering

system to number each shot and ID which side of which holder the film was in.

 

Linhof also made a vacuum sheet film holder back in the 60s and 70s.

[andrew_keam]

Ok, so lots of answers once again...Thanks to everyone for their responses.. Erie, I definitely won't be going with your option. Ha ha.. Thanks for the input though.. Ellis, are you saying that the Fuji Quickload holds the film flatter than conventional? I thought they didn't hold it as flat? Thanks Andrew