warren_lafever Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 here is a thought. micro 4/3 sensor on a non interchangable lens rangefinder. kind of like an digital olympus 35rc. that could be a fun camera to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren_lafever Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 slap a f1.2 lens 35mm or 50mm lens on that bad boy and call it a day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Brad - I agree, 100% perfection is an unreasonable goal. However it seems that the 1D mk III focussing errors on a static subject and a predictably poor focus hit rate on a subject moving at a steady rate toward the camera is weaker performance than its immediate predecessor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_bergman1 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 "Are you aware of a better performing AF system with respect to that kind of demanding test?" It seems that the Canon 1D Mark IIn has better AF capabilities for Rob's style of shooting. He has yet to test a production Nikon D3. So his complaints are of the Canon 1D mark III and 1Ds Mark III versus the Canon 1D Mark IIn. It is hard to make sense of these test results. He comments on the flaws as if the camera is hopeless and yet he continues to use the 1D Mark III as his primary camera. The type of AF sequencing he shoots does test the AF system to it's limits. Those that have not used a high-performance AF system or have not used any AF system at all probably don't understand the problems involved. Most people who have not had a sprinter, or a hurdler, or a long jumper rushing towards them, with arms and legs pumping, with their uniform flapping in the breeze, don't appreciate the precision of the equipment. But we were talking about Leica. I'd like to see an AF test of the Mark III, the Nikon D3, and the Leica R10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 <i>Aside from the AF problems.</i><P>The AF is fine. The problems occurred in very specific circumstances. They've been fixed. Perpetuating a myth isn't a particularly good way to make a point.<p><i>better AF capabilities for Rob's style of shooting</i><P>And when one understands this, one sees that it isn't a "problem," it's a specific set of circumstances.<P>Doug, what is your experience shooting sports with the Mk3? Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran__ois_p._weill Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Marc, The price I indicated is the one announced as a special offer by "le Moyen Format" boulevard Beaumarchais in Paris on their site... http://www.lemoyenformat.com/Neuf/CVDS.htm Can't say anything more. FPW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran__ois_p._weill Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Douglas, Jeff and Marc, I'm aware of the AF problem on the Canon EOS 1D Mk. III (the small sensor "fast" model) but never read anything about the 1Ds Mk.III full format model ... Is there anything new about the 1Ds being concerned by the same problems I'm not aware of, even if it has been corrected ? I've considered for a time going to a Canon EOS 5D, but when Nikon issued successively the D3 and the D700, I went back to Nikon to buy my future DSLR. The main reason versus the Canon 5D (the fact it is now long due for a replacement set aside) concerns the lens compatibility problem. At least the full format Nikons can use at their designed FOV an F lens of 1959 vintage provided it has been converted to Ai norm. This is very interesting for me as I won't have to buy the latest AF zooms at least for the time being and can use manual focusing wide angle primes instead of AF versions (a personal preference under 35mm) and buy prime the kit I need second hand for a very reasonable price, so the total amount won"t exceed my budget. In so doing I expect to get a body wioth superior performance (noticeably at high ISO) without spending a fortune. FPW FPW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Jeff Spirer wrote: "<I>The AF is fine. The problems occurred in very specific circumstances. They've been fixed. Perpetuating a myth isn't a particularly good way to make a point.</I>" <P> It's not a myth if Canon had to revise the mirror box and firmware to manage the problems. My point is that the M8's problems have been fixed, so why are people still perpetuating the issues? The M8's problems are as much a "myth" as the Canon Mk III focus problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 >>> My point is that the M8's problems have been fixed, so why are people still perpetuating the issues? I guess, if you call requiring customers to purchase additional screw-on filters for every lens owned that will be used with the M8, a fix. That is more a band-aid. A fix would be recalling the camera and replacing the sensor - similar to how canon addressed the focus issue. As far as "perpetuating the issue," I think that's more to do with how leica handled the problem. If leica released and marketed the camera and were upfront, saying right from the start that filters would be required and that was a conscious design decision made at the time of development, here is our filter program, etc, that would be one thing. But that's not what happened. So the story persists BTW, photographers that sent their 1DIII in for the mirror box issue had their cams back in their hands in 5 business days. Outstanding service - a commitment to customer care. How long did it take leica to get filters to their customers? Months? Comparing the two scenarios is like night and day. The canon focus issue was obscure and only revealed itself in a very narrow range of extreme shooting conditions. Easy to see how that slipped through development testing - especially on such an extremely complicated cam with so many modes and test corners that needed to be evaluated. The M8 issue occurs on every camera and is revealed shooting in very ordinary conditions - which would be totally fine if it were a kodak digicam and you're expecting your customers to be not too fussy. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 here is our filter program Sorry, i don't wish to lower the tone of the discussion... But, so funny...a filter programme for a new cam so it can take photos. It beggars belief that it took a punter ( Marc Williams who actually used the cam in a... earn a living in the real world environment...did Leica not think that cam would be used to take photos, or, did they suspect they no one would notice because it was just supposed to be a fondle machine for the well healed ) to point the issue out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Brad you haven't addressed the reliability question; that was my point. Leica has fixed the reliability problems and some folks haven't caught up to this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 >>> Brad you haven't addressed the reliability question; that was my point. Leica has fixed the reliability problems and some folks haven't caught up to this fact. Huh, what reliability question? You didn't bring reliability up (till now). I didn't know there was a significant reliability issue with the M8. Is that really being discussed here? You brought up AF *performance*, myths, etc. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_bergman1 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 "Marc, The price I indicated is the one announced as a special offer by "le Moyen Format" boulevard Beaumarchais in Paris on their site... " Are you sure that isn't a promotion for the 31MP camera? "H3DII-31MP Kodak sensor with 33.1 X44 , 2 MP 100-800 Iso, keeps his side versatile ... AVAILABLE IN SUPER PROMO with Obj 2.8/80HC = 11995 HT E!" There is currently a $9000 rebate in the USA on the 31MP version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I personally never use filters. Why would i spend a small fortune on a lens then put a piece of lower quality glass in front of it. The M8 is not environmentally sealed, it's electronic, not a mechanical camera…. think water and electronics. In harsh environments it fails....that is not a Leica. It's something else with a badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 A a cheap PS.... http://www.techchee.com/2008/01/23/olympus-new-durable-and-waterproof-cams-sw-1030-and-sw-850/ Just when are you going to make a cam for ACTUAL photographers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 like a bunch of old ladies arguing at a bingo game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Speak for yourself you old tart. Jeez, ever since he's gone full frame and been noted he has just not been the same. He has even started to wear those posh perfumes you read about in magazines. I don't know he's such a worry to his old mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 >>> like a bunch of old ladies arguing at a bingo game.. Funny coming from someone who has 16 posts in the game... www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beau 1664876222 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I've spent some time with the M8, as well as some of the other top DSLRs. To me, the M8 is ok; it certainly has some qualities that make it more appealing than the DSLRs, if you have certain preferences. But I didn't buy one. To be fair, I'm not crazy about any of the DSLRs I've used, either. I realize I'm conservative, but for my purposes (B&W in challenging natural light) none have provided a compelling reason to switch from film. I've found that the dynamic range isn't there yet, and often there's still that dreaded "video" quality to the images. For me to buy a digital M, it would need much better low-light performance. To me that's what Leica has going for it in the film world, and that's what they should concentrate on in digital. Find out what Nikon is doing to achieve such low noise, and try to compete there. I'd love a full-frame sensor too, but that seems unlikely. As a post-script, I'm interested in trying the D700; it seems to represent a true breakthrough. The files look remarkably clean to my eye, and the low-light performance seems uncanny. I'm not sure about dynamic range yet, and it sure isn't ergonomically what I prefer, but finally there is an important attribute to digital that is undeniably superior to film, i.e. record useful images at iso 6400. I wish it could mount a 50mm Summicron, but I've had good luck with certain Nikon lenses too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photo_dark Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Easily the longest winded forum discussion in history (that i've read). You guys need to get out more :) This is why I will never buy a leica. I'm scared i'll buy it then i'll suddenly be unable to stop talking about... nothing. besides, my rebel xt w/ a 50 1.8 takes better pictures than your leica M9. Here's a photo to prove i...uh scratch that. This post is long enough as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 You guys need to get out more Really, i think most of the posts with something constructive to say are getting out lot more than you... Perhaps you can prove otherwise...sort of easy to post throw away comments. Internet warriors you have just got love em.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjoseph Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Allen, I think your post is the least constructive one in this entire thread. As for the future of Leica I have some suggestions for the M8 replacement if Leica wishes to remain viable. The next M8 should be full frame, and have image stabilization (sensor based). Leica should also look at its pricing and consider having the body produced in Japan or Thailand in order to reduce production costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewlamb Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 The real question is; does any serious top-level photographer beat him or her self up about a camera that may or may not exist in the future? This really does sound like the proverbial bad workman blaming his tools. So what if Leica does produce an M9 that is full frame and provides a heavenly chorus every time you press the shutter. It's not going to turn you or me into: H C-B, Andre Ketesz, Gary Winogrand, William Klein, Robert Frank, Saul Leiter, etc, etc, (delete as applicable). Next step of Leica? Shouldn't the question be: next step of photographer? Apologies if this sounds like a lecture from the academy of the blindlingly obvious. Is this thread really going to hit to the 500 mark? Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Allen, according to you then, there is not a single useful post on any internet forum anywhere. People like to talk about stuff. They do it in pubs, on street corners, or on the internet. If you don't want to talk about stuff, then don't. Oh wait, you did want to talk, because you left an equally useless post here. Good job Pot, the Kettle says "hi". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Allen, according to you then, there is not a single useful post on any internet forum anywhere. I can’t remember saying that, Josh. But if you say so it must be true…I starting to feel really wicked…can you send me the booklet about towing the party line. Do you use a Leica, Josh? I use two. People like to talk about stuff. They do it in pubs, on street corners, or on the internet. If you don't want to talk about stuff, then don't. I like to talk about stuff…but do I have to follow the party line…or, else. Probably or else is the truth. Oh wait, you did want to talk, because you left an equally useless post here. Good job Pot, the Kettle says "hi". What was the equally useless post? I suppose I’m bit strange but I believe in that old fashion silly thing called freedom of speech. Yes, I know it’s archaic, Josh. Okay,Leica are spending money on PN. Does that mean that a Leica users cannot give their opinion? Have you thought that opinion might be helpful? Hey,Josh ,you are a moderator,press the big button and i'm gone forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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