patrick_f Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hello all! Tonight I am trying to learn how to convert RGB jpegs to CMYK for printing, following lesson 14 in the "classroom in a book" book by Adobe. I do not have a printer that wants to work so I cannot check my work, etc, but here goes! I copied the file, and did everything the book said up until the hue/saturation point. With the Gamut Warning on, I had to de-saturate the image by about -30, and add about +14 to the hue to get rid of the highlighted areas. I then saved the file as a photoshop EPS file. The file now states that it is CMYK, but on the screen it appears very "muddy", desaturated, and has lost snap! Next to the original RGB jpeg it looks terrible! Is this the way it should look? When reproduced in print, will it look closer to the RGB (as it appears on screen) or did I miss something? I am scared to send this off although the deadline is this week. Is it simply the case that on screen CMYK is supposed to look awful and desaturated? Second part of the question - Should I make all of my adjustments (levels, curves, color balance, etc) in RGB and then convert the image to CMYK? I cant imagine trying to adjust color, etc, while in CMYK(!) as it is WAY off from what my eye is telling me is correct.I realize this is kind of a stupid question but the book did not say anything at all about the file looking like crap after you saved it, and again, my canon MP150 printer for some reason will not print from my mac (just the pc).BTW, search function was not working tonight so sorry if this has been covered.Thanks and hope I can help you one day!Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_Cooper11664875449 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Why are you doing this? CMYK is for prepress process printing. Even if this is your objective you would need specific instructions from the printer to target your conversion. None of the photo printers you have access to accept CMYK formats. Internally they will convert to CMYK for printing but ONLY accept RGB input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_f Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 It is for a local magazine, and they know less than I do. They will not convert the image, and I know of another photog (who's work always looks awesome) is giving them CMYK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_Cooper11664875449 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 This is a quick and dirty approach http://www.ne14design.co.uk/articles/convert_RGB_to_CMYK.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'd either ask that other photographer , the magazine's production person, or the people who print the magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj bartis Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hi Patrick, Yes, the CMYK version is going to look horrible compared to the RGB. One reason is because you are viewing it on you monitor which isn't set up to display CMYK. CMYK is meant for paper and the images will look differently on paper. When I did this last year I also got an ICC profile from the publishers - so ask about this. Also, you should have a chance to see printed proofs before they get put in the magazine. Look up how to do "Soft proofing", too. I don't have photoshop on this PC, but I seem to remember several settings where you could simulate paper color and simulate black ink. One thing I was really worried about was that the blacks would not be black, but they were. One suggestion I read to try to lessen the shock of that dull/muddied look, was to look away from your screen, open the cmyk image, then look again- it'll look better! And yes, as the article Craig linked to says, do all your editing in RGD then convert. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklavoie Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 rude answer i know, but its THERE magazine, so THEY must know what to do. You cant just hit RGB / CMYK and stop there; channel must be optimized, ink limit must be set, sharpness should be done... Do you have a calibrated monitor to start? do you have anything in the big epson printer categorie to test proof your image on paper before sending it to them? fascinating! how lazy people could run a magazine without any basic knowledge of there own stuff. The worst part is THEY think that YOU should have the holy thruth about the file handling..and if it look like s*** (good chance it will) you will be in the same boat as everybody else that TRY to get something good for someone who dont give a dam about there mag. Because between you and me, if it was mine, i would not let you or any photographer do is own conversion, at least not without crucial and realy important information. And for what its worth, im not agree with Chris Bartis; its not normal that a CMYK look bad compare to a RGB, IF THE RGB IS WELL DONE meaning if you didtn ultra saturated your color to give them a POP on your monitor without making sure that those color could print..common error from people who trust what they see on screen without having print experience. My RGB when printed in top fashion magazine look prety close to what i have on my monitor (to a certain extend of course) and from what i have give as a print from my epson 7880. Chris, do you really think that they will provide a ICC profile and a printed proof to someone they cant even give basic info? MAgazine dont give printed proof to everybody because you ask; they give proof to huge client who bougth for a 20 000$ ad everymonth, to make sure that those customer are happy since it cost them half a million a year, and they dont do that every time neither..imagine the time they will loose if they where doing so. Hope you get decent result this time (you should hope to) and from the result you get, adjust it next time..if there is a next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 The key is having a good (and correct) ICC profile for the process. And forget this Gamut Warning, desaturate nonsense (this must be an old book). The ICC profile will handle out of gamut issues based on the rendering intent you select (Perceptual or RelCol), based on the image soft proofing you see and prefer. This may help: http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200703_rodneycm.pdf Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_owen Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 The chances of getting the printer of a small, local magazine to provide a profile is about zero. Still, it doesn't hurt to wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 >The chances of getting the printer of a small, local magazine to provide a profile is about zero. Still, it doesn't hurt to wish. Then how are THEY converting from RGB to CMYK? Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklavoie Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Andrew, maybe THEY let the printer (i mean the guy at the pritn shop) do it for them or ask everybody to give them CMYK without knowing much about it? would not be the first time i saw that : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well someone, somewhere has to have a recipe for the RGB to CMYK conversion. If you don't, you're potentially screwed (even when you send them RGB). Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_owen Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 >Then how are THEY converting from RGB to CMYK? Blindly, of course. Seriously, I assumed you meant for the OP to ask for a profile created by measuring output from the press and media involved in the publication of the magazine. I have worked with a fair number of printers--corner shops and large concerns--and NONE have ever honored a request for a profile. I live with the diminishing hope that I may actually work with a color managed, SWOP compliant printer before I die. The odds do not appear to be in my favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 >Seriously, I assumed you meant for the OP to ask for a profile created by measuring output from the press and media involved in the publication of the magazine. More likely the contact proofing system. By whatever is appropriate to produce CMYK values that honor the color appearance on the printing device. >have worked with a fair number of printers--corner shops and large concerns--and NONE have ever honored a request for a profile There's a difference in not "honoring a profile" and having or not having the correct recipe for the conversion. Someone, somewhere has to (or they have the wrong recipe and we get crappy output). This is no different for a press than it is for any other output device. You have to convert RGB to RGB or CMYK for some output device. >I live with the diminishing hope that I may actually work with a color managed, SWOP compliant printer before I die. They exist. And its not helpful if you're printing sheetfed! Bottom line, someone has to supply the recipe, that's usually defined with a profile OR they have to conform to standards (TR001, G7 etc) and then a "canned" profile that also defines that process can be used. Few can afford to blindly convert to CMYK unless the blind guess is pretty close to hitting that broad side of a barn. Its just too expensive to use a printing press as a proofing device. OR someone in the printing facility is charging a good deal of money to output contract proofs, alter the conversions or data until its decent. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_f Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Patrick - NOT rude, but HONEST and I appreciate that! Thank you to everyone, I hope I can help you one day. FYI (if you are interested) the shots in question are on my website ( www.patfoleyphoto.com ) in the first gallery (personalities) shots #11-13. Feedback is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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