Emulating a certain film's "look"?

[charles_watson]

Hey guys,

 

I'm looking at the Library of Congress's flickr website.

 

A lot of the photos were taken on ...ASTMAN SAFETY FILM [Kodak Eastman Safety

Film].

 

 

What current films have similar color and contrast levels? You can tell by some

of the darker lighting scenes that it was a [relatively] high ISO, probably 100

to 200, and it appears reciprocity wasn't a huge issue, as shown by the night

photo.

 

The library of congress flickr site mentions these were 4x5" color slides.

 

What current film would give these results, without digital post-processing?

 

Thanks

[charles_watson]

Also, is there a direct film comparison, for example, side by side photos taken with different films at the same scene, on a tripod, with the same lens or same focal length and the same settings, with the only the changing between the photos the film and the shutter speed [to accommodate ISO changes]

[RobertChura]

I believe these are Kodacromes, The lighting on some suggest a flash was used.

[richard_]

Nice photos ! - especially the 3rd one. These were taken in the 40's during the War and most likely on Kodachrome. SADLY, Kodachrome (as well as film in general) is NOTHING like the film of that period ! The emulsions were different. I've done alot of experimenting, and the only 2 current films that come close to Kodachrome or to that "look" is : Kodak Elite Chrome 100 and Fuji Astia 100F . And with the help of some good "hot lights" you might get closer ...... Hope this helps.

[James G. Dainis]

Part of the look is that these most likely weren't 35mm film frames enlarged to 4x5. It was probably 4x5 Kodachrome sheet film in a Speed or Crown Graphic. At one time Kodachrome was available in up to 11x14 inch sheet film. Now it is only in 35 mm film.

[charles_watson]

@James

 

"The library of congress flickr site mentions these were 4x5" color slides."

 

I don't think the camera is really relevant, right? I mean, other than expensive cinema color-corrected lenses [aka repackaged Nikons], the camera / lens have little impact on the contrast / color of the film?

[richard_]

Yes those are 4x5's. And yes Charles IT IS the FILM (rather than than size of the film or type of lens) that is the relevant factor for attaining that "look". The larger negative and type of lens of course do contribute adding tonal and/or color value, but again ITS really the FILM that is most crucial ! Good luck

[James G. Dainis]

I merely meant to point out that the 4x5 slides had been made with a 4x5 camera. You can tell that by the notches in the side.The Speed and Crown Graphics used 4x5 film. If 35mm slide film was used, why bother to copy it on 4x5 slide film? Speed Grapics were the most common cameras used by pro photographers in the field. Even Joe Rosenthal used a Speed Graphic to record the famous flag raising on Mt Suribachi.

 

I'm glad to learn that the size of the film does not matter. If Ansel Adams were alive today I would tell him, "Don't bother to use an 8x10 view camera; you can get the exact same results with 35mm film."

[charles_watson]

@James

 

I don't see your point. I'm trying to find if there's a similar film with colors / contrast similar to Word War II era "Safety Film" [which I think was a generic title back then for all Kodachrome].

 

Lets say Ansel Adams used Tri-X. If I stood next to him with his massive 8x10 or 4x5 or 6x6" camera with an APS-C sized point and shoot, and we both used Tri-X and the same exposure settings, the image would have a "look" that was the same, or at least very, very similar [poor contrast of the lens, no shift / tilt, etc]

 

You *CAN* get the same results with 35mm. You cannot, however, get the same sharpness or accutance with the smaller negative. I'm comparing films, and it doesn't matter if the chemicals of those films are spread over a 24x36mm area or a 8x10in area

[JDMvW]

Actually, Ansel Adams did use a Contax 35mm sometimes, but that doesn't mean that it's as easy to get those "f/64" kind of results with 35mm. Can it be done? Sure, but not casually with drugstore processing, etc.

[ian_mazursky]

The term "Safety Film" was a generic term used to denote the film base. For a long time, almost if not all Kodak film

had those words on in the film rebate. Color & B&W all had the same markings. The notch codes are the key to

telling them apart. Although over the years they most have been recycled, making it hard to tell.

Film used to be coated on Nitro Cellulose. Yes is does explode. Ive tried it with some Eastman film from the 40's.

 

When they switched to a different base that would does not burn as readily, they labeled it "Safety"

[James G. Dainis]

The point is, you may get the same colors but the "look" you want is the result of large format.

[john_shriver]

The film with 4 notches is Kodachrome Professional Daylight, the film with 3 notches is Kodachrome Professional Type B (3200 degree Kelvin).

 

I think those are all Jack Delano photographs.

 

A key to these photos is extreme skill in working with the lighting given a very slow film and a slow lens. He also had to understand how to compose effectively where the shadows were going to be crushed to black by the very high contrast of the film.

 

It would take a lot of post processing of E100G or E100VS to get anything like this look. Smash the shadows, cross-contaminate the colors, etc. But you need to start with composition and lighting.

[aaron_muderick]

Here is another 4x5 Kodachrome archive to drool over:

 

http://www.shorpy.com/4x5-large-format-kodachromes

 

What a lovely palette.

[hillary_charles]

Although it's not the same emulsion as was used in the 1940's, and now sadly available in only one 35mm emulsion, Kodachrome 64 does share similar attributes; that "etched" look with great edge definition, a wonderful and unique skintone, plus those dense dense shadows.

 

It would be fun to experiment with Astia or Elite Chrome, but no E-6 has quite the same look, IMHO. However, if using larger formats for the fine-grain look, I would try Astia and play with lighting, depth-of-field, etc.

[JDMvW]

"Etched" is right. There was an almost 3-dimensional look to the K-I and II slides themselves and even the latest Kodachrome doesn't quite equal that. Some E-6 slides can look pretty good, but not the same. There's no equaling the archival quality either, although Ektachrome did hold up better under projection. I used to make Ektachrome copies of some of my Kodachromes for slides that I used all the time in my classes. (Before Powerpoint, we had big multiple screen slide shows)

 

I find that "warming" up pictures in Photoshop often gives a look a little like the old films, and of course it is easy to imitate GAF high-speed films. Just crank up the noise, grain, and magenta!

[amund_aaeng]

Kodak E100VS would put you in the ballpark, but with a little more punchy colors.

 

But I have to say that what you see here is more the results of great lighting/photographer(s)/film format than the film alone....

 

And the film format (4x5) contributes quite a lot more to the overall look than you might think.