Ilford HP5 Plus and Kodak Tri-X----Suggested Chemicals That Will Work Well For Both Films

[bruce_mattes]

Please forgive me for asking again questions that have been answered

before..I've read many, many post over the past several months, but am still

somewhat confused..

 

I intend to return to developing my own B&W films after a 30 year absence from

doing so..My only experiences with B&W film developing was at the Ft. Lewis,

Washington Photo Lab during the period 1977-1979..All the chemicals were mixed

up & ready-to-use when you walked in to use the lab..

 

So, I'm basically starting from scratch again to re-learn the process..

 

I am asking the members of PN for suggestions for the five chemicals used in the

developing process..Developer--Stop Bath--Fixer--Washing Agent--Wetting

Agent..Hopefully , chemicals that will work with both brands of film..

 

I am not adverse to mixing dry chemical powders into solutions, as opposed to

purchasing liquids already mixed..If I reach the point that I find myself

needing to develop 5-10 rolls per week (my goal), the powders appear to be more

economical, than the already mixed liquids..I am in the beginning stages of this

type of research, so I might be mistaken..Please correct me if I am..Do the dry

powders have a longer shelf life than the liquids?..I understand that decanting

the liquids, whether you mix them yourselves, or purchase them mixed, into

smaller & smaller containers in order to minimize their exposure to the air; is

a necessary part of photography in order for the chemicals to last as long as

possible..

 

In all likelihood I will be hand developing at first, unless I can catch a good

deal on a PhotoTherm SSK-8R film processor..Some fantastic deals are definitely

to be had..One sold on e-Bay earlier today for $255.00, along with a bunch of

other darkroom equipment..Eventually, I want to own a PhotoTherm in order to

streamline the developing process as much as possible..

 

I intend to start shooting either Ilford HP5 Plus or Kodak Tri-X 120 film..Back

in-the-day I shot Kodak Tri-X exclusively..I understand from posts read here

that today's Tri-X differs somewhat from the Tri-X that I used during the

1970's..If all goes as I hope it to, I will be using a Pentax 645NII body with

the FA 45mm f2.8 lens to shoot daytime street photography, & eventually night

street scenes as well..The intention to eventually shoot night scenes is why I

am choosing to start with an ISO 400 speed film..I want to shoot & learn only a

single type of film to start with so as to keep the many variables to a

minimum..I am looking for a film with the greatest possible versatility between

daytime & nighttime photography, not necessarily the one with the best grain for

a particular use..

 

I you had to choose between HP5 Plus & Tri-X for this type of photography, which

would you choose..Or are there other choices that I have overlooked & should be

considering?..A reason that I am leaning towards HP5 Plus is that at sometime in

the future I would like to experiment with B&W slides..According to the dr5

website, Ilford HP5 Plus has the widest ISO range of the many films that they

process..So, HP5 Plus would give me more options than Tri-X would for B&W slides..

 

Thanks in advance to all who answer..

 

Bruce

[Mike Howard]

Bruce, I would recommend the following with HP5 or Tri-X. HC110 developer, Kodak Indicator Stop, Ilford or Kodak Rapid Fixer, Photoflo. This combo is a long standing, well developed and documented combination. How close are you to a store where you can walk in and buy it? The old standby D-76 is also good with both films. One other question, are you scanning or printing "traditional"?

[trooper]

D76 might be a good first step as it's the standard that is used for comparing others. Fine grained undiluted and you can add some edge to things with dilutions. If I were starting over, I'd skip the stop and hypo clearing and simply use TF-4 (alkaline stop) from Photographers' Formulary. Water stop and 4 minutes or so in 1:3 fixer (reusable) followed by a water wash and you're done. A wetting agent helps to minimize water marks prior to hanging to dry. Once you get accustomed to the D76, the possibilities are endless but you may be better armed to make a decision based upon the look you're after and comparing descriptions to the D76. I've been using PyroCat for most everything for the past couple of years as it is fine grained, controls highlights and most of my printing requires much less manipulation (burning/dodging) with these negatives. It is especially nice with HP5 and if you are going to be scanning, the negatives scan much easier (for me, anyway) than non-staining developers tend to.

[bill_clark___minnetonka_mi]

Welcome Back!

 

I use Ilford developers, my main is ID-11; however, I also use Perceptol and Microphen.

 

I like the powder developers as I believe in the power state they last a long time, many

years, perhaps even decades. I've got stock solution of ID-11 I mixed in May 2006 and

I've about used it all up. I took several 120 rolls of film with the recent snow here in

Minnesota. Fun!

 

I use an indicator (yellow color) stop bath. I believe it is made by Kodak.

 

I use various Fixers.

 

No hardners.

 

Alot of this stuff is personal, giving the photographer a certain look they want. It can

become your brand.

 

I hope this helps you and I believe you will find this process will be easy to refresh your

mind after you process a few rolls of film.

 

Have Fun!

[frank.schifano]

Any of the films you've mentioned will respond well to D-76 or XTOL. Both developers are mixed from powders, and are very economical compared to pre-mixed liquid concentrates. In dry form, these developers have a very long shelf life. Once mixed, the clock on the 6 month recommended shelf life for stock solutions starts ticking. Splitting the fresh stock solution into the smallest practical bottles is the smart way to go. Any partially full bottles will be used up long before they go bad.

 

HC-110 and Rodinal are two highly concentrated liquid developers with extremely long shelf lives. HC-110 is very economical, Rodinal less so. I'm not particularly fond of either of these developers. Neither will allow you to exploit as much speed from your film as will D-76 or XTOL. Neither will ameliorate apparent grain as well as D-76 or XTOL. But they are convenient to use and keep. Rodinal does have it's charms with slow films, where grain is not as much of a factor.

 

Yes, Tri-X has changed over the years and for the better. Grain is less apparent in this latest version than it ever has been, while the other desireable aspects of the film are still there. All in all, it's a good product made better. I prefer it over HP5+, but that's me. You might feel differently.

[jim_appleyard]

The above info is good. Just about any chemical you use on one of your film choices, you can use on the other. I would say to keep it simple until you get your feet wet again (30 yrs? Welcome back!)

 

D-76/ID-11, X-Tol, HC-110, are all good and can be used for both films. There are differences among them, but will all do a good job for you. It's about personal preferences.

 

Get copies of Anchell's, "Darkroom Cookbook" and Anchell & Troops, "Film Developing Cookbook". Lots of good info & recipes in there.

[bde gnas]

I recently shot some 120 HP5 at 1600ASA. I developed it in Rodinal 1:50. I was expecting

enormous grain but the photos came out great with good tonality and detail. You can see

them here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bde_gnas/sets/72157604135757027/

[mark f]

I prefer Tri-x.....it will work in almost any developer, but I'd agree with starting with D76 or xtol (my choice). HC110 isn't bad...I used to use that until I started using 35mm more. If you decide to go with a slower film eventually, FP4 has a similar look (to my eyes) as Tri-x, but with less grain.

[thomas_sullivan]

another vote for HC-110.........been using it for years.

[tim gray]

Just to echo what others have said, I'd go with XTOL. I personally use Ilford rapid fix because

its liquid and I dispense with the stop bath. Photoflo is good stuff though...

[blarg_.]

I've been using a simpler process but it works GREAT.

 

I use Edwal FG7 developer for both films (in fact, I use it for all films and get great results). For stop bath, I just use a water rinse - 2 quick changes is all it takes. Then I use TF4 fixer (from Photographer's Formulary). Then water wash, and a couple of drops of water wetter (I think mine is made by Edwal).

 

the advantage is that you never introduce acid into the process. TF4 is an alkaline non-hardening fixer so you use alkaline developer, the water rinse brings the pH up enough to to stop development, and then back into high pH for fix. Acid is what you're trying to avoid with all the washing and hypo clearing, so if you never introduce acid, your wash times are VERY short, and the resulting negatives are clean and have great archival quality.

 

I was a 35mm guy for most of my film life and was never really a fan of Tri-X and preferred the look of HP5+ and Neopan, but recently I started shooting 120 and what a difference! Tri-x is a wonderful film in 120 size...it's like 2 different films!

[brucecahn]

Try the 320 speed tri-x, pulled, in d76, unless you want to go to the trouble to use pyro, which is better.

[SCL]

I've had good results with D76 diluted 1:1 with both films.

[._._z]

35mm: HC110

 

120: Rodinal

 

Pushing film: Diafine

[sg_adams]

I was using D-76 1:1 for both those films, mostly HP5, but have recently switched to HC110 and really like the results.

It is also easier to use. Most folks mix small batches as the unmixed concentrate lasts a very long time if you pour it off into small 4oz glass bottles after opening the 16oz jug. Super easy. for Dilution B its just 1oz to 31 parts water. Dil H, 1/2oz. I make bigger batches for sheet film in 2 qt jugs but it really has been more enjoyable than trying to mix D-76,which has to be mixed up all at once and doesn't last.

So far I am very satisfied with Tri-X in it, and one that surprized me has been great results with Fuji Acros. I haven't got to trying it with HP5 yet, but from most of what I have read it is supposed to be a very nice combination.

For stop bath I use regular Kodak acidic acid as per directions or more diluted for some films like Efke. I have gotten away from rapid fixer and just mix Kodaks standard hardening fixer for films.

When I use a washing agent it's Heico Permawash, which I use for FB papers, but increse the pre-rinse and after rinse for films to get all the magenta dyes off. Good ol' Photo-Flo for the wetting/drying agent, and I don't wipe my film unless it's just test stuff and not important and in a hurry to speed the drying.

Have fun whichever way you decide to go.

[bruce_mattes]

WOW!

 

A real big THANK YOU! to all who answered..

 

Mr. Howard--In all likelihood I will be scanning the negatives & printing them on an Epson printer fitted out with an Ink Jet Mall ink set..Scanners for B&W, as well as printers are a subject for another thread..I've got a ways to go before I get to that point; although I have been giving the subject of scanners & printers some thought..

 

Mr. Appleyard--Many thanks for the references to the 2 books that you mentioned..I will definitely try to get copies ASAP so I can study them before getting back into the swing of things..

 

From info gathered here on PN I was leaning somewhat towards X-Tol for two reasons..First reason is that it is one of the most frequently mentioned developers here on PN..Second, is after researching prices I noticed that it was available in large quantities..Now that I know that the dry powder will last for many years (assuming the powder is kept dry), the larger size (50liter) box would seem to be the most economical choice..

 

My thoughts are that I will pick a single film to expose, & a single choice for each of the chemicals necessary to obtain a finished negative..Economy & longevity are important qualities in the choices that I make on the chemicals..With all of the variables that are possible in exposing the film to light, the various dilution strengths of the four main chemicals, & the differing times that the film can be exposed to the four chemicals in each stage of the developing process; it only makes sense to me as a returning newcomer to B&W film developing to limit myself to a single film choice, as well as a single choice for developer, stop bath, fixer, washing agent, & wetting agent..My thoughts, at least for the present, are to stick with these six choices for a full year..To learn well the characteristics of the film & the chemicals necessary to develop it before I start making any changes..

 

I will keep a log book so that I can record how each roll of film was exposed, & what was done to the exposed film during each step of the developing process..

 

Thanks again to everyone for your input!

 

Bruce

[larrydressler]

HC-110 and Rodinal are 2 of my favorites for those films along with D-76 Plain water for a stop and just about any fixer on the market is fine with me for those 2 films.

[trooper]

"the larger size (50liter) box would seem to be the most economical choice"

 

Mixing partial portions of the total powder will not give a predictable ratio of ingredients due to settling/separation, etc. Consistency in chemicals, temperature and techniques as you get restarted will pay off in more gratifying results and trail to trouble shoot from. Your rekindled interest could wain quickly with erratic initial results! Even the 5L package gives some people trouble as the Xtol sudden death syndrome can strike if your consumption rate isn't what you expected.

[bruce_mattes]

Thanks Craig--

 

If I understand your post, the entire box of photographic chemical is designed to be mixed at one time in order for the greatest consistency, correct?..So regardless of whether you purchase a 1 liter, a 5 liter, or a 50 liter box of X-tol (for example), you should mix up the entire box at one time?..

 

Does this same technique apply to all photographic chemicals, not just developers?..

 

Bruce

[sg_adams]

PRemixed dry chemicals like developers and fixers yes.

Liquid not so much, but can go bad in bottles with air space.

That's why so many folks like HC-110.