University Art Student Bumbed Out..

[zachlong]

I stated this year to get an BFA in Art Studio with an emphasis in photography.

This is the only school that I can attend that offers any type of

photography "degree" what so ever. I have yet to start a photography class at

school, as I am now doing other requirements such as drawing, painting, etc. I

am horrible at drawing for instance, and these professors are basically telling

me that if I cant draw or paint the I will never make it in photography because

I have no artistic talent at all. Any info or advice on this kind

of "encouragment"? Thanks.

[john tonai]

You probably won't like this answer.

 

You are going to an ART PROGRAM. School is the place to learn. The process of drawing and painting can help your photography because it forces you to study light, line, shape and other aspects of design and composition.

 

If, in fact, you have "no artistic talent at all" you can't take photos either. If you don't have the physical talent of drawing, that is why they want you to take classes.

[Norma Desmond]

I think it might be overreaching to say that if you can't draw or paint you will never make it

in photography. Professors, like others, are know to occasionally hyperbolize.

 

That being said, being at least exposed to a drawing and painting class (whether or not

you become great or even proficient at it) will help enormously. Early on in my learning of

photography, I was encouraged to think and work like a painter and I feel it was some of

the best advice I got.

 

Knowing how to imbue your photos with subtlety of shading, with depth on various levels,

with keen perspective, etc. will make you a better photographer.

[neilambrose]

<p>There's some truth in what John says. You either have to have a natural talent for

design and composition, or you have to put the time in to learn it. If you don't do either of

these things you'll never be a photographer - at best only a camera owner, and your work

will never develop to a quality where you can market it successfully.</p>

 

<p>It's probably not important that you learn to draw well, but you should develop a rich

understanding of colour, texture, tone, symmetry and perspective. These are the basic

building blocks of a good photograph. I can think of nowhere better to start than at art

school.</p>

 

<p>If it's any consolation some of the best photographers I know trained as painters first.

As did many of the great names in photography.</p>

[neilambrose]

<p>Looks like Fred and I said pretty much exactly the same things at the same time. Must

be right then! :-)</P>

[yann1]

"Talent doesn't exist, talent means you want to do something".

Your teachers are simply pushing you to do everything to reach your goal.

[brucecahn]

I sometimes teach privately. I encourage my students to learn to draw. It will give you a big advantage over untrained photographers. From drawing you learn how to design a page, one of the most important things in photography. I would stop fighting it and make up your mind that you will learn it. I am not exactly Michelangelo, but after a few years of intensive drawing I was able to draw well in all mediums. You do not have to go that far, you do not need an A in the course, but if you can pass drawing you will be much better off.

[john_h.1]

"I am horrible at drawing for instance, and these professors are basically telling me that if I cant draw or paint the I will never make it in photography because I have no artistic talent at all. Any info or advice on this kind of "encouragment"?"

 

You can't meet the challenge of creating a composition and understand color and light principles or you just don't have a steady hand so to speak? If the latter, they are full of themselves. Either way you are stuck. Make the best of it and hear everyone else here out.

[Brad_]

As an electrical engineer, I didn't get to take any engineering classes till my 3rd year in

college. College is more than just taking classes in your major...

[don_e]

"...these professors are basically telling me..."

 

What do you mean "basically"? Are they actually telling you that, or do you mean that by requiring drawing and painting they are "basically telling you"?

 

If the first, then you've managed to get stuck in one of those recondite corners of academia we would all prefer to avoid. Run. If the second, suck it up or quit.

[brucecahn]

Zach: There is one thing I forgot to mention. I went to RISD in the early 1960's. In the first year we studied such things as two and three dimensional design, illustration, calligraphy, figure drawing and nature drawing. I was a sculpture major. I must say that although overall I did not like the school, that was the single most useful year of study I have had anywhere. The things learned have helped me for 45 years with all forms of art. Do it. You will be glad later.

[SCL]

Sounds like you are in a rut, and used to getting things without really working hard for them. As others have told you...you are in a course of study, and study you must. Basics first, and your grasp of them should lead you to another plateau. You probably won't like to hear the next part either, but you had darn well make sure you get in at least one or two business courses if you plan to do professional photography, or you may have the artistic skills but be unable to practice the art because you can't manage your business. All said and done...study hard and learn to enjoy and appreciate what you are learning...it will begin to tie together in later courses.

[zachlong]

well i got a B in my 2d design class this past semester. but its mainly my drawing class and the professor there. he keeps saying "if you get a c or below in here, then i hope your not an art major". well i got a c, it seems i can look at something and see it, but have trouble putting it on paper with the pencil or whatever. i

[jautey]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say, "drawing and painting isn't all that important to being a successful photographer."

It helps, they are foundations for other art, but not having these skills isn't much of a hindrance to photography.

Even having an art degree isn't that important in being a successful photographer.

Having a passion for your photography, spending a lot of time practicing and learning techniques, and knowing how to market yourself will make you a successful photographer.

You'll do well to remember that most college professors think their field of study is fundamental to the universe.

It usually ain't.

But, to get that degree you'll have to humor them and follow their rules.

Otherwise, use this time to learn how to draw and paint(even its badly). You'll never regret learning something, the regrets will come from not taking advantage of the chance to learn.

Preachy enough for yah?

[GerrySiegel]

One semester is not the time to judge. Give it another four months and then reevaluate if the Arts degree is worth it for you. Or consider some other way to enter the field,such as apprenticeship or workshops.

 

Talk to an academic counselor before you toss it. Their job is to hear you out. Hang in there for a while.

Best.gs

[lee_ricks]

I'm jumping on Eric's bandwagon. You can be a fine photographer and be unable to draw a bath. This is an example of the arrogance of the pedagogue. It also points to another problem.

 

Why is it that photography is treated as the bastard child of the art department? Photography should be taken seriously and idiotic pronouncements like "cant draw or paint then I will never make it in photography because I have no artistic talent at all" point out the failures of this professor and not you. I would run from this pissant as fast as I can. Because of the arrogance of most college professors it is unlikely that an approach to the department head will do you any good.

 

Why not go to a school that actually values photography? The Center for Digital Imaging Arts at Boston University, Brooks, University of Arizona Center for creative Photography. If I were you I would get myself off to the Academy of Art University in San Francisco. You will be respected as a photographer and taught by artists.

 

Consider. Annie Leibovitz - San Francisco Art Institute. Alfred Eisenstaedt Belt and button salesman and freelancer for a newspaper. Anne Geddes - Self taught. Dorothea Lange - Apprenticed in NYC. Frans Lanting - Masters in Environmental Economics. David Hamilton - Graphic designer. On and on.

 

I think getting a degree is wonderful. If you want to be a successfull photographer get a business degree, aprentice yourself to a superstar photographer, and have fun. A BFA is nice. It will teach you many fun skills. Among them writing an artists statement that will make people want to hit you with a wet sock.

 

I am concerned about your "the only school I can attend" remark. Be resourcefull. Starve. Work long hours. Go where you will be respected as a photographer and not treated as a second class citizen by some shavants like this guy.

[kellyka]

I went to art school, and the first thing that you have to learn is that everything is subjective. I wouldnt worry too much about what teachers says, especially if they are grad students teaching and freshman class, they tend to think of themselves as art gods ( just my own personal experiance) You may not have drawing talent but if you apply yourself you can learn the skills which are just as useful and many principles are applicable across the creative feilds. But get used to it, there is not right or wrong answer or square root or 12 that will get you through art school you are going to have to spend the next 4 years defending what you do and design and why it is succesful.

 

You teacher comments may also have nothing to do with you drawing skills or lack thereof it may be a comment on you mental additude and willingness to attack a challenge which will hinder your growth in photography as well.

 

Here is my advice, dont be bad at drawing anymore, just be good at it :)

 

And the basic excercises they make you do help. Sit down, draw your hand in one line. No Erasing, infact do it in pen. Eventually you will get better and when you get board of your hand draw your shoe.. in one line also

 

Whether you ever use it again or not you will gain something out of your drawing class that may or may not affect your photography, but just have an open mind, do your best and enjoy. And you never know where you will end up after you graduate. I spent four years studing interior design, but im sure glad now that I paid attention in my photography and photoshop classes.

[mrossi]

The best thing I ever learned about education is that "you learn how to learn". You could be taking underwater basketweaving, and you could excel at it, and the discipline you learned to apply could then be used for something entirely different. I've got a business degree, and it taught me how to research, work with clients, meet deadlines, and yes, how to learn...

<br><br>

I think your profs are stressing the importance of the fundamentals. You can take what they say and be scared by it, or you can look at it as a challenge, and apply yourself to meet that challenge.

<br><br>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Van Gogh didn't attend art school, did he?

[GerrySiegel]

Matthew R, your comment is wise observation.

 

I look at the impatient and anxiousness of younger folk like most older folk with a few years behind.

 

The perspective is of a public school kid from less than privileged neighborhood. There are many ways to get into the technical vocational part. ( I chose the Naval Reserve as freshman, where I got to use a lab and a government camera on weekends every month. And talked and shared with more polished seniors.)

College can,-can if it is right and right for you naturally- knock off rough edges. Polish the brain cells.

 

Does a professional photographer need to know Shakespeare sonnets? What does setting up a studio and shooting weddings and portraits and filing excise tax have to do w/ iambic pentameter and all that baloney. Protestant Reformation and the Renaissance Popes. Who gives a puff about Dostoevsky. Mondrian and Kandinsky? Give me a break,man. Dead Europeans from the old Europe :-)

 

Since you seek advice from the wise men (and women)... When you are in business, think your portfolio is the whole deal? Business acumen,yes, but IRS doesnt care how you got there.. You can hire a part time bookkeeper and learn marketing later methinks.

 

One needs more than the proverbial " good eye." and I think our pros here will support that view. I believe we all grow a surprising lot in the 20's years if the mind is open... Education of a broad variety? Give it a chance. And if the school is a factory which I doubt, seek a better place, or take a work break.

And be pleased you are getting this opportunity.

Best wishes, and hang loose for a while. gs

[GerrySiegel]

Van Gogh had a pretty rough life. Let's pass on that.

[b_hall1]

You have to develop a style that only has a purpose of getting though the things that you're not inclinded to do. Dots or dashes or thick lines or smears or whatever...in other words a strategic response. Working intoxicated might help...

 

Also...at a university you could major in journalism and minor in photography.

[conrad_hoffman]

It depends on what you want to do, but I'll go pretty much with what Lee said. IMO, photography is more of a craft, and a degree in it is relatively worthless and certainly no guarantee of success. In fact, collection of a degree (other than the scientific and technical side of photography) might well be the death knell of any interest you have in the subject, and the ROI is terrible. Sure you need to understand composition and principles of art, but being able to wield a brush or chisel has no bearing on the matter whatsoever. You're in bed with idiots.

[smeitner300]

Well I do not have an art degree, but have had a similar experience...

 

In my second semester of college, I was taking my first chemistry course. We were studying re-dox reactions and I just didn't catch on. I went to the prof and with an arrogant wave of his hand, he motioned to his wall of books, and said "The answer is in there somewhere...look it up." I told him that I had read the text, and was looking to get some help with an example. He responded, "Well, if you can't do chemistry, you should look into changing your major."

 

That was 6 years ago. I am finishing my Masters in Mechanical Engineering (my original major), and just was hired at a National Research Lab. I took the situation as a challenge. I never went back to the prof for help (turned out that he told many students the same thing - many less stubborn than I). I instead sought the help of upper class men. I got through it, but it was harder than it needed to be. The last thing I heard, the prof's contract was not renewed (pretty much fired).

 

So here is my advice...

Chemistry was not core to what I have done as a Mechanical Engineer, but I am glad I have the foundation. You will often hear, "well rounded education"...they're right. If you are really serious about the major, then tough it out. You'll feel stronger when faced with another challenge...and there will be more. And bypass those not willing to help you get where you want to be. Remember that passion for your major, even when taking classes outside of it. Go shoot pictures, go print some negs, or just hang out at a gallery. After you get charged up with photography, it is easier to go into class with the attitude, "I'm going to draw this stupid paper bag the best that I can."

[GerrySiegel]

Some professors are jerks. (Some bosses are jerks too,and some clients don't spread it around.) They come in all flavors, teachers, even at prestigious schools. You will find one or two if you are lucky who has knowledge and style, I guess like one I just read about, a biologist named Stephen Gould. Turns lights on,not off.Standing room lectures.

 

Steel yourself to be self reliant and dogged in pursuit of what your calling is,but don't narrow it too soon I say.

 

What have you lost in three or four months trying the paints and the charcoal? Maybe there will be a life study class next year,who knows. Don't forget those other non craftsy humanities courses,to repeat my thought to you. Time will show the value of a broad or general education. As our vocations shift and evolve in the global economy,aspiring photographer. ( I read that in a book,but it makes sense to me) gs

[keith selmes]

Drawing requires a particular form of hand-eye coordination. You don't need it in photography.