What am i doing wrong

[jim_weinert]

Im a beginner to photography and cant seem to get a good photo. A photo is

included with this post. Could my issue be camera shake, dof, lighting or do

you think its in the developing dept. My shots lack detail and everything else

that makes a good photo. Also very dark at times. Thank you to everyone for

looking at my post.

 

Jim<div></div>

[jim_weinert]

Here is another bad shot. Is infared that i have a issue with spotting but besides that i cant seem to get detail.

[alex_furman1]

I actually kinda like your shot. It's contrasty as hell due to this lighting conditions you're shooting in - bright light, dark shadows. In this case, I actually think it works well for you even if it doesn't seem to be what you were aiming at.

 

I'd do this: think about what it it you're trying to achieve with a particular shot. Think about what kind of lighting conditions would be best to capture it, how you wanna compose the frame, what kind of a reaction you want ot get out of the audience. When all the pieces are lined up, you may wanna come here for advise _before_ pressing the shutter and then, after you've developed the film, share your results for constructive criticism.

 

As it is, you're presenting and image that seems just fine to me. I'm not sure what you were trying to do and where you think you failed.

[doug grosjean]

Both photos have good exposure, focus, and composition. Horizons are level, etc. You seem to have the basics covered.

 

On the second one.... I don't know why the spots exist. Something in development, but I'll be darned if I can tell you what or why. IIRC, developing IR isn't much different than developing regular B/W film, so I'd ask you this: what did you do different between the two? Something different in temperature or process?

 

If these are a pair of your bad pics, and you've only been doing this a short time, well.... you'll be fine.

[jim_weinert]

Alex thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.When i look at the shot my eyes seem to hurt and strain. I decided to start learning all over again at set out with 2 rolls of film and decided i would try to work on comosition only and when i developed the 2 rolls i was happy with the comosition on both rolls except for the infared roll was spotted ( bad film i think ). I came across a small hill where light was coming through the center of the group of trees and thought it would be a great shot until i developed it. This morning i thought that maybe it was to harsh lighting that the leaves on the ground were over exposed and also i thought that the exposure was set on the shadowed area which caused the lighted area to be overexposed. The shot was taken at 2 PM in the strong sunlight. I was thinking that i should go back there in the early morning and trying the shot in a les harsh light and also i was thinking i should use the exposure lock feature and have the camera set the exposure for the lighted area then lock it and move the focal point to the center of the trees and the maybe i can get more detail out of the lighted leaves on the ground. Does this sound right or crazy.

 

Jim

[RobertChura]

How are you developing the IR. I had problem with spots one time using Kodak XTOL. But using other developers no problem.

[keith_lubow]

No one can answer anything without you telling us what you don't like about it.

 

Keith

[jim_weinert]

Doug thank you for responding. I have decided to shoot a roll tomorrow in the morning because until now i have only had time in the early afternoon and i hope the early morning light will be more pleasing. Thank you again for responding.

 

Jim

[jim_weinert]

Robert i used Kodak hc110

[jim_weinert]

Keith, i dont like the lack of detail and how it dosnt show what i seen what i took the shot. Also i guess i look at other shots from photographers like you and everyone else and get upset when i take a shot and i dosnt compare on any level.

 

Jim

[ronald_moravec1]

When in situations with dark shadows and bright highlights, expose enough to get detail in the shadows and cut development enough to retain detail in the bright areas. In time you will learn to recognise those situations.

 

Remember it is easier to add contrast in the darkroom than loose it so always develope moderately.

[arden_howell4]

I also think that the shot of the trees is really not all that bad and with some skillful printing could be quite nice. Shooting IR is a skill in itself. As you mention being a beginner, it might help you to stick with one film and one developer until you learn that combination, and don't hesitate to bracket exposures. It appears that the tree exposure could have benefitted from another stop. As this would have brightened the foreground leaves and helped the dense shadows. Technically, your photos are not bad. Don't get discouraged, just keep taking pictures. Most any seasoned photographer will tell you that the largest percentage of their shots go in the trash. Your percentage can only improve with time and practice.

[tripanfal]

Jim, no shame in those shots. I might have bracketed the first one because I still have a hard time with very contrasty scenes. I like the graveyard IR also. I really like the one from the other post about the spots. I hope you solve your problem, and I'll be watching that thread.

[jim_weinert]

I will stay with 2 films Kodak tmax 100 and Hie and develope them in hc110, i hope by staying with just them i can learn more about the process.

 

Jim

[keith_lubow]

"i dont like the lack of detail..."

 

There is a healthy amount of detail; especially for infrared film. Lost of times you lose the shadows and the highlights with IR film. You were shooting a pretty broad lighting ratio even without the IR film.

 

"...and how it dosnt show what i seen what i took the shot."

 

No photograph ever has or ever will. That's part of why they're so cool. Besides, the whole reason to use IR film is so you can see what you can't see with your eyes, in a very heavy way. What was your idea behind using IR film if you wanted to capture what you saw as faithfully as possible?

 

Keith

[jim_weinert]

"how it dosnt show what i seen what i took the shot" was directed to the first shot of the small hill with the light coming down.

[john carter]

Jim, I have had the spotting problem with HIE developed in HC-110h. After it happened twice, I gave up on HIE. I'm not saying it is the film, but I just don't want to fuss with it. There have been other threads on HIE spotting on the this site.

[buzz]

I dont think there is much wrong with either shot, especially the ir shot, that cant be fixed with a little technical support.

 

I am advanced beginner, 10 yrs doing photograpghy, 3 or so in the darkroom dev. and printing. I have spent the last couple of years studying Ansel Adams, I would recommend reading the negative to start with, it has helped me a great deal.

 

 

The first shot lacks detail in the shadow areas, if you want an overall evenly exposed negative, meter off of a shaded tree and figure it to be zone III or IV(meaning this should have reasonable texture in the negative). Translation, if you are metering with your camera, get close, determine the reading, ie. f8@1/60, that is going to be zone V(middle exposure). Since you want a zone IV exposure there, shoot the scene 1 stop less, f11.

 

Then depending on how you visualized this you could add or reduce contrast during the deveping(N-1 or N+1), this is simply adding or sutracting(1 stop) development time. Developing longer will add contrast by darkening your shadows, so will increasing agitation, so will using an increased developer temp. The same is true in reverse, reducing dev. time will reduce contrast, and might also give a generally flat appearence to your prints.

 

I hope this isn't to confusing. There maybe some others who could clarify and or correct some of what I said.

 

good luck

[keith_lubow]

Placing on Zone III or even Zone II 1/2 should be fine for the darkest area where you want detail. Placing shadow details on Zone IV is overkill, especially in such a broad contrast range (unless you don't want any rich blacks, which may be the case).

 

However, that is not going to work out as planned unless you have done some testing first. Blindly placing a tone on zone III or II 1/2 using box speed and recommended development is likely to get you no printable detail there, as your film is most likely slower than the box states. I have recently tested one film that is faster than box speed for me, but it is the only one that has ever turned out that way for me.

 

You can't really do this predictably with IR film and filters. IR film picks up energy where that you or your meter can't see, so where tones fall when you place them will vary depending on how much invisible IR energy is reflected from that surface.

 

Also; Now I am confused about something: Were both pix taken with IR film, or just the second?

 

The key to all of this is knowing how you want your final print to look. If you know that, you can learn how to craft the ideal negative to let you be able to print it that way. If you can't do that, then you will be frustrated a lot.

 

Learn to see nothing but contrast in a scene. Always stop a minute and look for the brightest area and the darkest area. Measure them to see how many stops apart they are. All there are are different intensities of light arranged in a certain way. You need to understand how the limits of your film can be stretched to capture what you want. You will eventually learn to take what's there, and render it in a way that makes it possible for you to make the print you want.

 

Keith

[john_elder1]

The first print might have to much contrast because you printed it on paper having to high a contrast grade. Thats what it looks like to me. Reprint the first print on a much lower grade and see if you can see details in the shadows. Also look at the neg on a light table with a loupe and see if there is detail in the trees. As a rule start printing an image with a low contrast and build contrast as nesesary.

[jim_weinert]

John

Thank you for responding to my post. The image i posted if of the negative scan.

[ellis_davison]

Learning black-and-white film photography using infrared film is about like trying to learn to drive using a Formula 1 race car. It isn't that it can't be done, but it is not the easiest way. One of the things that keeps photography fascinating is that it is so difficult to take a good picture, and almost impossible to take a great picture. (From Mary Ellen Mark, who has her share of both.) That being said:

1. Infrared (HIE?) cannot capture anywhere near the detail that good medium speed conventional emulsions can. If you need the detail you may need to think about going to medium or large format.

2. Focus shift. Most older lenses have a little red dot or line, and sometimes it also have a little red "r" next to them. Focus normally first, then shift the focus to line up the footage mark on the red mark. It may look out of focus in the finder, but it will be correct on the film.

3. Depth of field can help compensate for the focus shift, but out of focs is out of focus.

4. If you are using a single lens reflex, the shutter speeds with HIE are ust about at the worst spot for mirror bounce. Lock up the mirror if you can.

5. If you are not using a tripod, you need to, and the sturdier the better. The tripod wlll help absorb the mirror bounce if you can't lock up the mirror.

6. Bracket, as in take a lot of shots at different exposures, over and under what your meter indicates. Meters are not partciularly accuate at measuring light at the infrared end of the spectrum. Film is cheap, compared with your time.

7. Looks like some dust spots on the second one. Dust can be cotrolled, but is tough to entirely eliminate. It gets retouched either electronically or using special retouching dyes or inks on a conventional silver geletin print.

Keep going - you have a good eye. I particularly like the second one. If it was easy, anyone could do it.

[jim_weinert]

Ellis, Thank you so very much for taking your time to write such a detailed and helpful responce to my post! I have a strong passion for photography and everytime i run into an issue with bad shots, spots and developing issues i want to throw my camera in the trash along with my negatives. I have tried a few photography forums and disliked them all except for Photo.net. You and all the other photographers here have helped me out so much with your knowledge and advice that i want to say thank you to all of you so very much for ! Im very interested in medium format but at the time i will stay with 35mm untill i can gain more knowledge. Thank you again for taking time to help me and i hope to soon be able to post some shots for all of you to critique.

 

Jim