Help me out with "Thirds Rule"

[scooter0071]

I have been working hard, and with the help of everyone here I have found myself

to be growing in my photography ability. One of my major problems seems to be

the "thirds rule". It seems when I make a conscious effort to use the thirds

rule the image does not come out looking good. In fact I would say it looks like

the thirds rule is forced and ends up in an awkward looking photo. I will attach

an example. Please help me out, what am I doing wrong here.<div></div>

[carbon_dragon]

Well, the rule of thirds divides both the vertical and the horizontal into thirds (like a tic tac toe board) and the general rule is to place the focus of the picture in one of the places where the tic tac toe lines meet (there are 4).

 

In this case, you're about a third from the right but about centered otherwise. Also the bird is looking out of frame instead of into it, so it is a little discordant to look at the eagle and then follow it out of frame.

 

Also in general, it doesn't seem sharp (maybe that's the resolution I'm not sure) and there is an uninteresting low contrast background that doesn't show the bird in a good light (literally and figuratively since the lighting is pretty flat).

 

So, put the focus on a third both horizontally and vertically, use a tripod to get it nice and sharp, look for a more interesting background and better light, and if the bird is looking one way, try to arrange for it to be looking INTO the picture. Just my opinion, I'm definitely not a professional birder.

[frank_dzambic]

Maybe you think that particular one looks awkward because the bird appears to be looking out of the picture. What I mean is, since the bird is facing to the right, placing it on the left third would have it looking into the rest of the frame rather than looking at something outside of the frame which the viewer can't see.

 

I don't consider the rule of thirds a hard and fast rule. It is a good place to start when you just can't come up with a way to frame a subject as it'll generally give pleasing results. A better alternative than just always placing your subject dead center. When you have the luxury of taking your time, I find that roughly framing your image (perhaps along a rule of thirds line) and then slowly panning around or zooming in and out slowly will often result in something that suddenly just looks "right" to you. That's when you press the shutter button.

[d_s31]

I think it's just the wrong third you were using. If you put the eagle on the left third instead of the right, it may look better.

[geoff_foale]

It isn't a rule - just a suggestion. The world doesn't conform to thirds so just look for what seems best to you. Sometimes it might be thirds but on other occasions that will look totally wrong.

 

Generally, I will consider the look of thirds when cropping but never work exactly to a fixed design.

 

Just a suggestion about your photo. I would consider cropping it to a different ratio or maybe a portrait orientation as the bird appears, to me, to be looking rather lost at the moment.

[don_e]

My rule of thirds tendency is to place a main subject closer to center from the 'tic tac toe' intersection. It just happens that way in the vf.

 

As for composition, I have no idea what is outside the frame, nor what you had to do to get the photo, so can't say if you could have changed it. If you've got the pixels, you may want a crop.<div></div>

[michaelging]

The rule of 3rds is more like a "good Idea" than a rule. If it was my photo, I would put the head of the bird in the 3rd.<div></div>

[alex_lofquist]

Sometimes "fifths" make for more appreciative photography.

[scooter0071]

This is why this site is so great. I thank everyone for the helpful advice and if anyone has anything to add or other opinions I will continue to monitor. I was not able to move around too much to get a more desirable background, They were on trees located on a cliff. I did have enough time to look at the area and try to find what I could do different but was unable to come up with anything. Eagles is one subject I really wanted to capture but I have not found any until just now.

 

I would like to address the sharpness issue that David mentioned. I agree the image is not as sharp as it should be. I use a Nikon D50 with the "kit lens" 80-200. I use the auto focus because in testing it , it definitely does a better job than I can in most cases. Is there something else I could be doing. The shots I took here were hand held only because I snapped a few to make sure I got at least something before setting up the tripod. Good thing too because they didn't seem to want to stick around for me to get set up. Are there any suggestions other than use the tripod on how to get a sharper image from something non-posed like wildlife.

Again, Thanks for the assistance.

 

Bill

[scooter0071]

And my above post is why one should proof read before hitting submit. Please forgive my poor language skills. (Stay in school kids!)

[Leonard-just-Leonard]

Maybe there is a "new" rule of thirds nowadays

 

1/3 buy lots of expensive digital camera stuff and computer software

2/3 take the picture

3/3 crop and adjust it in PhotoShop until it looks right

 

:)

[hjoseph7]

If you get confused by the thirds rule then don't use it. As long as you got a pretty good eye and a sense of composition you can forget about the thirds rule. Just look throught the viewfinder and keeping your eye on the viewfinder try to find the most attractive composition for your subject.

[geoffs1]

If you're interested in learning more about composition, I can recommend "A Painter's Guide to Design and Composition: 27 Masters Reveal Their Secrets" http://www.amazon.com/Painters-Guide-Design-Composition-Masters/dp/1581806434 I couldn't pay full price, but if you can get it on-sale somewhere for $15 or less it's worth that much.

 

It's (obviously) not about photography, but I found the discussions general enough to be helpful.

[thomas_hardy1]

A good "rule" is try to avoid "bullseye effect". My wife really has bullseyeitis.

[brucecahn]

rules should be broken whenever possible, especially rules about composition and focus

[jeffpolaski]

Incredibly, my new Canon G9 will show the thirds grid on the view screen. Fortunately, I use the optical viewfinder, so I can still make the usual mistakes.

[don_e]

"rules should be broken whenever possible..."

 

Is that a rule?

[geoff_foale]

Bill. With regards to the sharpness issue. Firstly, we really need all the information concerning shutter speed, aperture, ISO etc. However, in general terms, assuming you were at 200 mm you would really need a shutter speed of at least 1/250 to have any hope of a hand held sharp image, I would prefer 1/500 if possible. You may be able to reduce the aperture and increase ISO to suit, but I would consider ISO 800 to be the absolute maximum. I use Canon lenses and the Image Stabilisation really helps in these conditions.

 

Secondly, auto focus is fine if you are sure that it is really focusing on the soft edged bird and not the hard edged branch nearby. If in doubt use manual focus. If there is time I like to take a few shots with auto then switch to manual just to make sure. Also, how clear was the air? 'Heavy' damp air will cause distortion.

 

Finally, have you used any sharpening? I've had a go with Unsharp Mask but there isn't a lot to work with here. However, for what it is worth, this is what I tried. Slightly adjust Curves to lighten the bird. If sharpening the whole scene makes the background look over sharpened try drawing a freehand selection just outside the bird and feather 4 pixels. With this sort of image you should manage to get away with this rough selection method. Apply Unsharp Mask at 1 pixel and 100%. Apply second Unsharp Mask at 3 pixels and 20%. There are better sharpening systems with the more expensive software.<div></div>

[kristoff_capa]

bill, 3rds don't always work!, it's best to shoot what pleases your eye without any rules.

look through books, find a photographer you like, see what they do, after awhile you take on

composition naturally, your own style shows through.

[don_e]

I used The Gimp for this. Color selection of the background, then the despeckle filter with feathering. Flipped selection used the edge enhancement of the NL Filter, auto color enhance, auto wb, auto levels. No sharpening.<div></div>

[albertdarmali]

There's no rule in photography.

[James G. Dainis]

Many people say they disdain the rule of thirds but subconciously they still apply it. Even those who never heard of the rule of thirds have it reflected in their photos. Look at the photo of the eagle above. The sides of the eagle are on the thirds. I don't think that was a concious effort, it just looks best that way.

[carbon_dragon]

I'm not a birder as I said, but there are a few things you can do. You can practice shutter release to make as little movement as possible. Improved technique could pay off. Take a breath, let it out, and slowly snap. Also, using lenses or cameras with image stabilizers could help. Also raising the ISO so that the shutter speed will shorten. Bracing on a tree crook, or rock, or anything maybe on top of a beanbag might help get you a sharper picture.

 

Oh if you are on a tripod, turn the image stabilizer off.

[b_reagan]

Hello - if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say "the Gimp" fully realizes how wet and pissed-off this guy was. Isn't that what you were trying to capture?

cheers,

bernard