Anyone else get harassed by the police like this?

[craig_sander]

Over the years, I've been stopped by the police several times for taking

pictures. Whether its at night in a public place, or during the day on somebody

else's property.

However, over the weekend, I got questioned by a highway patrolman, and this

was the most grief I've gotten to date.

 

I was taking a picture of a bridge here in southern california, and this guy

pulls up and asks what I'm doing. He has an attitude to begin with, and starts

giving me the "Sir step away from the car" bit, and "keep your hands where I

can see them" routine. He then asks to see inside my car and goes through my

backseat (where my gear was) and asks to see the inside of the trunk as well.

Not only does he ask for my license, registration and proof of insurance (even

though this WASN'T a traffic stop. My car was parked down the way from where I

was shooting), but he also asks for my social security number! I've NEVER been

asked this before by an officer, and at this point, I had to inquire as to why

he needed that. He went on about Sept 11 and what not, and that he is taking

this info down, but he's not sure where it goes.

Hmmm...sounds suspicious to me.

But I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar situation, and how you

felt about it.

[j_anon]

All you are required to do (to the best of my knowledge) is provide identification. Had he asked me to check in my car I would have said "sure...as soon as you have a search warrant"

 

When he asked for a social security number I would have told him that the government does not consider that a form of identification..he can read that right on his own card.

 

And then...when I got arrested, I would have sued him, the chief, the city, etc for false arrest, etc etc etc.

 

Start standing up to these idiots. Just because they have a badge doesn't give them the rights they seem to think they have.

[vivid_earth_photographics]

When an officer asks for permission to search or for information, you can ask, "Do I have a right to refuse permission?" and "What happens if I refuse to give that information or permission?" Simply because a request is made does not mean you must say "yes." Often, the request is not a formality but truly a request regardless of the tone used. Of course, if the request is to obey a lawful order, as in "Would you please place your hands behind your back," that's different.

[craig_sander]

Since I've been stopped by the police before, I usually give in to there demands, if only to make them go away faster.

But this was more than the usual questioning, and I'm wondering if I should contact the highway patrol and ask them if this is normal?

[jmarshall]

I would contact the highway patrol and ask for a copy of any incident report that was filed by the officer. If the answer is "there wasn't one," I don't think it would be out of line to -- politely -- ask if the treatment you received was routine.

 

I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, but I think you're certainly within your rights to have a copy of anything that may be on file about the discussion you had with the officer.

[chris_waller]

Yes, and it's becoming an increasing problem. I was asked by a police officer to leave a cafe after the girl in the cafe accused me of taking pictures of her surreptitiously as she bent over the cold-counter. I tried to explain that it would have been impossible given the light and the fact that I was using very slow film. I also explained that I was a serious photographer with no interest in photographing fat backsides. All this was to no avail as the police officer had not the least comprehension of what I was saying.

 

I am currently taking legal advice with a view to suing for slander.

[Brad_]

>>> I am currently taking legal advice with a view to suing for slander.

 

Curious about the slander aspect... Did the police (or someone else) make a public statement

about the incident, identifying you?

[._kaa]

Yes, this happens.

 

I was once arrested for refusing to delete my pictures of a factory. The made-up charge was trespassing, I got a court date, and the case was dropped by the prosecution right before the court appearance.

 

Kaa

[d_f11]

Unfortunately police, like us , get bored and have to find things to do with their time, like putting on a show of bravado to show who's in charge. They do it all the time here in East Rogers Park Ill., and you don't even have to be taking photos!

[craig_sander]

Believe me, I've thought about contacting the highway patrol. However, I don't want to draw any more attention to myself than I apparently already did. If he just took my info down, ran a quick check on my plates, then tossed my information after realizing I'm not a terrorist, then no real loss (ignorance is bliss).

But if I start making a big stink out of it and start demanding names and talking to supervisors, might that work against me if this would have died down anyways?

 

I don't want to be on some "watch list", and I don't want to just take it up the ace on this one. But at the same time, I don't want to obsess about it and make things worse.

[craig_gillette]

Any governmental agency requesting an SSN is supposed to have a privacy act statement or be able to tell you (non-federal): whether the disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority the SSN is solicited, and what uses will be made of the number. Federal agency disclosures are somewhat different but also require disclosure if it's mandatory or not. That said, get legal advice from your attorney. They can tell you what you do and don't have to do in your state as it pertains to providing identification allowing vehicle "searches," what is allowable for officer safety, etc.

 

I'd expect the vast majority of us out here don't have repeated problems with the police. And being talked to and allowed to continue isn't being "stopped." Part of their job is to be aware of what's going on.

[petemillis]

Craig, I'm surprised he didn't ask you to provide a DNA sample while he was at it!

[bwcombs]

Craig Zander, you didn't say what your answer to the officer's first question was.

 

In my tasks of shooting, I have been approached by every possible law and security person

that I can think of, including a couple of FBI agents. Each and every time, I answered the

initial question "What are you doing?" politely and honestly, while handing over a business

card, explaining in detail what I was doing and why. It works every time for me, and in

most cases, the officers will assist you if you need it.

 

For future reference, here is a link to a copy of photographer's rights. Keep it handy.

 

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

[bcostin]

I'm not sure how the policeman "harassed" you, unless you qualify all interactions with police as "harassment". In fairness to the officer it's not always up to them, and they were probably just as annoyed at the situation as you were. Somebody probably drove past, saw something they thought was unusual and called in a suspicious person complaint to the cops. At that point the police have to either ignore it or send a patrolman to investigate. If they ignore the call and it turns out to be something bad (not necessarily terrorism, could be vandalism, illegal dumping, drug activity, etc.) then the department is in serious trouble.

 

Listen to a police scanner for a few days and you'll get an idea of the weird and useless stuff that officers are dispatched for all the time. Just be straight with them and remember they're just doing their job.

[captjack]

It happens to me all the time- I shoot real estate- shopping centers & office buildings for real estate property managers/brokers- I'll be out shooting a property and be approached by law enforcement &or security- (usually the security know when I'll be there shooting)- I present my business card- tell them who I'm am shooting for- have given them the brokers number and had them call on a few occasions- but never had a problem. I always feel re-assured when a LEO comes by to "visit".

 

In your case- if you were taking pix of a bridge and weren't on an assignment you could have been a terrorists taking structural pix of the bridge for a future terrorist act- the LEO doesn't know and since 9/11 they are to check out "anything!" that is suspicious.

 

On the east side of Houston the Pasadena freeway (Hwy.225) goes right through the middle of the largest petro-chemical complex of refineries in the U.S. - there are cameras on poles everywhere - if you stop on the freeway there will be a LEO there in just a minute - if you get out of your vehicle with a camera you had better have a good reason and your attorney on speed dial because your going to jail before you go anywhere else.

[William Kahn]

Tomorrow is the anniversary of 9/11. Law enforcement agencies across the country are likely being more alert than usual for a possible anniversary attack by terrorists. Personally, I'd rather you endure a little "harassment" than that a bridge gets blown up tomorrow....with me on it. Suck it up, and go with the flow.

[craig_sander]

Craig Gillete - The officer DID stop me from my shooting and told me to move on after he was done with me.

 

Pete Millis - Good one.

 

BW Combs - Than you so much for the info. I'll definately keep this handy.

 

Bryan - I say "harassed" because I've never had this much attitude from a police officer and I've NEVER been asked for my SSN, asked for all my driving info when I was NOT being stopped for a traffic violation and then told to leave. I've been stopped by officers before where we shoot the shlt for a half hour while we smoke cigarettes. This was NOT one of those times.

 

Jack - It wasn't actually the bridge I was shooting. It was the toll plaza ON the bridge. If that helps.

 

William - That thought crossed my mind.

I have a friend who works for a local city police, and I'm gonna ask his thoughts on this as well.

[craig_sander]

Oh and William, is "go with the flow" another way of saying "take it up the ace"?

No thanks.

[bwcombs]

To Chris Waller in the cafe:

 

You were not on public property, if you were inside the cafe. If you were taking photos of the waitress who was inside, through a window or opening, from a public area outside the cafe, then you have a case.

 

Don't expect everyone to understand the limitations of your film, gear, etc. Telling someone you won't take a pic because the ASA of the film is too slow and the light is too low is like holding up a gun and stating, "I can't use this, because it has no bullets in it."

[les]

Well, wait another 50(?) years...your bed will flip over at 5:30a.m, then you better hurry with your breakfast because your home will be remotely locked by 6:00a.m. - as you will be supposed to be on your way to work, with cameras tracking your progress and listening devices recording your every word (for the greater good and everyone's safety and security, of course).

 

Stopping on the way to work will be summarily punished by 3 months of jail. Taking a picture - 8 to 15 years in prison, with no parole for 5 years.

 

Or...am I a bit pessimistic ?

[William Kahn]

Not to mention a bit paranoid...:-)

[captjack]

Scholz- I don't know where you grew up? but all of us over 45 had to read George Orwell's - "1984" in high school. It was required reading so that when we reached voting age we would understand to protect our personal liberties granted us by the U.S. Constitution. Until this administration it was never really an issue. Maybe we all need to read "1984" again to remember.....

[danielleetaylor]

File a complaint against him. That's what I would do. Cops with poor attitudes only degrade (what's left) of the police / citizen relationship. They're not needed. Either he needs to shape up or get off the force.

 

Whether or not he had good reason to stop and check you out is not the point. I imagine you wouldn't have posted this had he been courteous. The fact that you feel slighted is evidence enough that he did not do his job properly. Had he done it properly, everything would be fine.

[les]

Jack - I have to admit I never did read the "1984"...but Franz Kafka's "The Trial" is probably in the same category...

 

Paranoid ? For sure. You would be too if everybody was out to get you :) :D

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial

[danielleetaylor]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that nobody is out to get you ;-)