Durst M600 or Beseler 23C II

[johnyeatts]

Hi,

 

I am looking to acquire an enlarger. Someone local is offering me a very good

price on a "mint" Durst M600 with two lenses (50mm and 80mm Schneider Componon),

or I can pay twice as much (and maybe more) for a good condition Beseler 23C II

with 50mm and 75mm Nikon lenses and negative carriers for 35mm and 6x6.

 

I shoot B&W both 35mm and MF and am trying to buy a decent first enlarger.

 

I am rather torn. Any thoughts? I know spare parts for Durst enlargers are hard

to come by, but the price seems right all the same.

 

BTW I work in a relatively small bathroom darkroom, if that is any help.

 

Thanks,

 

John

[john_shriver]

I get 46 matches on eBay for Beseler 23c*, one for Durst m600*.

 

There are a LOT of 23c's out there. One, that means parts and accessories. Negative carriers are common. Second, that means with patience, you can get a cheap one.

 

The 23C is a hassle to get properly aligned. On the other hand, if a Durst M600 is misaligned, you're out of luck, no adjustments.

 

On the other hand, the 23C is a big beast. Might be overpowering in your bathroom? Any enlarger than can do 6x6 is going to be a bit large in a bathroom...

[johnyeatts]

Forgive my complete ignorance: What exactly do you mean by it being misaligned? The last time I played around with an enlarger was 15 years ago, and that was pretty basic.

[jtk]

JY, he means getting the film plane perfectly parallel to the baseboard. You can test by projecting a film...if the image is perfectly rectangular (measure) you're OK. If not you may need to shim something.

 

If they've both been stored well there's probably no worry. They can both be squared with the baseboard if for some reason they have minor problems. Dursts generally had better negative carriers...flatter film, and they had significantly better condenser lenses (relevant if these are both condenser enlargers as opposed to color versions).

 

M600 isn't as structurally solid as 23C and Nikors are better than Componons (which are also excellent, wheras ComponaRs and CompaRons were trash.

[menashe_soffer]

I don't know the Besseler but I bought M600 few years ago;

theoretically it is very good - very rigid construction, a 'flexible' format up to 6x6.

 

practically you will almost surely need replacement parts because the lens board will not fit most enlarging lens and in addition different lens boards required for different focal lengths because below extension length is limited. It is almost impossible to find these replacements and if you find it will cost more than the enlarger.

 

I also had lots of 'Newton ring' problems with the negative carrier.

 

I don't remember every details I didn't use it for quite a time it gathers dust in the closet.

[jtk]

There are no newtons rings problems with the carrier if it's not a glass carrier..and it probably isn't. Same as with Beseler. The advantage of antinewton glass carriers is that they hold film very flat, making MUCH sharper images in corners. The disadvantage is that you have to be alert for dust. This is especially worth considering for 120, as anti newton glass really pays off in that format.

 

If it IS a glass carrier, it won't make newtons rings IF it's an anti-newton carrier, and most were. That's easy to check by a) asking and b) inspecting. You can see anti-newton glass's slight texture.

 

Since it comes with lenses it presumably comes with lens mounts. If the enlarger is set up to work with the existing lenses, lens mounts, and negative carriers one doesn't need extra parts.

 

If it were me, I'd buy on the basis of condition and what I could afford. I'd prefer Nikor lenses, but I wouldn't value the advantage by more than $75 total.

[chris_scodellaro]

I've got a Durst M600 at home and I don't really like it. I got it very cheap as a temporary solution to print 645 negative (no way to find the right carriers for my other enlarger).

 

Two things I don't like about it - first is the glass carrier and what it did to my negs - bent & scratched when the glass was fully seated(granted it could be me and the fact that I didn't really have instructions on how to use it properly).

 

Second bigger issue is that my 11 x 14 easel doesn't fit very well under it. If it wasn't a low profile it would't fit at all. Every time I went to do anther print I had to re-align the image. The easel fit underneath the track on the column when closed but I could not open it while in position to remove/change the paper. This drove me completely mad.

 

I bit the bullet and bought a C700 on that auction site. I can get which ever carrier I want and I have no issues with easels. Life is much better now.

[bruce_karnopp1]

I have a 23CII and an Omega D2. Both are mainstream machines, so parts are available. I switched each machine to an Aristo Cold Light. One advantage of cold lights is that they with shine through dust instead of making white worms in an enlargement.

 

I have to say that I like the negative holder on the 23C better than those on the Omega.

 

Finally, I think the 75mm lens is not nearly as good as the 80mm lens.

[hjoseph7]

I would go for the Besler 23C because of its ruggedness. Trying to obtain parts for both enlargers is really a hassle since they are discontinued. Trying to get parts for the Durst however, is like searching for the holy grail. The company is located in Italy and they rarely provide customer service on discontinued items, or any items at all, especially if you are an out-of-towner. The 23C is made of good ol metal. The Durst has allot of plastic parts that can be easily be broken if you are not careful. Your choice !

[johnyeatts]

Thanks for the input everyone. I ended up buying the M600 with 50mm and 80mm Componon lenses largely because the seller was local and the Beseler seller wanted almost $75 just to ship. The enlarger itself is in immaculate condition and is the right size for my tiny bathroom darkroom.

 

Two followup questions:

 

1) Both of the lenses are threaded for 25mm lenseboards. From what I understand, the recessed lenseboard for the M600 (for MF enlarging, lenses 75mm - 90mm) is a SIXTUB, which is what I believe came with the enlarger. Can I use the 50mm lense on the SIXTUB, or will I have to pick up a SIXPLA (eg flat) lenseboard? I searched around on Ebay before I went to meet the buyer, and there are plenty of SIXPLA 25mm boards out there for cheap (not very many SIXTUB's though).

 

2) Does the negative just sit on top of the glass plate on the negative carrier? I find that I can't get a length of 120 film to lay down flat in the grooves on the sides of the negative carrier - I basically have to clip off one negative at a time and lay it flat on the glass, and then insert the negative carrier into the enlarger. Unfortunately when I do this the one negative just slides around a bit; nothing is really holding it in place. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

 

John